Liam Rosenior

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, TomTom92 said:

Good input.

My post isn't to say i want LR gone. It's to stir a debate as to what people think of our performances/results so far. In my opinion every second half has been poor and we've scored 3 goals in 4 matches which isn't great.

I've tried to include reasons/excuses for LR to balance out my post but in my opinion everything isn't rosey. 

As i said, hopefully we'll come good as the season kicks on and any doubt can be put too bed. But there's no harm in asking questions especially in a forum format. 

Liam's nickname ?

After 4 league games, I don't think many people would expect it to be rosey, TBH.

I'd be worried if we hadn't shown any sign in all games played - but we have and we could argue we should have won each game.

[therealhantsram]

This is our best start to a season since 2014.

And all done with a team of free transfers and a EFL enforced wage cap.

Just let that sink in for a moment.

 

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

This is our best start to a season since 2014.

And all done with a team of free transfers and a EFL enforced wage cap.

Just let that sink in for a moment.

 

Point taken.  
 
Although I would argue that it’s in the make a wish league and that to LR credit he’s assembled a solid squad for this standard. So I’d be actually concerned if we hadn’t started half decent.

[RodleyRam]

44 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

fans have short memories and don't live in the past or look to the future. It won't take long for the groaning to start if Liam Rosenior doesn't bring a more positive style of football to Derby. We have been starved of goals for a couple of seasons, he needs to improve that at this lower level.

Agreed. Football is sadly quite unsentimental and unforgiving. However, it's so important that we put where we are today in some context and learn from the unsustainable approach to management, culture and playing style under the previous regime.

I get it, football is a results business and we want to get results in an entertaining way but unless we are flirting with relegation we need to buy into what LR and team are trying to do and give them plenty of time (a season at least). I honestly think they are trying to be more progressive and attacking. We will come up against teams who sit in and stifle us and I agree, we want to learn from this and identify ways to break it down and get results.

So far we've seen mixed performances and results. I think given the context, we have to accept this is work in progress.

At no point have we looked like losing. Even Barnsley under the cosh, did we really look like actually being blown away? Charlton, how we lost the game remains a mystery. An early goal at Shrewsbury and the complexion of the game is completely different.

We are creating more chances than last season, so far we have not been clinical in front of goal but despite that we sit 7th and on track to challenge for the playoffs, which would be a good season in my book. I think we have the potential to go better than that and our support and confidence can make a massive difference to that.

I accept people have a right to groan but it's massively unhelpful and don't underestimate how much the online negativity will be picked up by the players and other fans. So let's attempt to keep perspective and remember how critical our vocal support was to us nearly pulling off a miracle last year. 

[Carl Sagan]

My concern is we have dropped a division but despite that are only creating a tiny number of chances each game. But that LR is deluding himself into believing we're creating loads of chances and just not taking them. And, because of this, LR claims he is extremely happy with how we're playing. I said before the season that if we were to think about promotion we had to completely change our mindset as a promotion-winning team must score goals. Instead we've stuck with the ultra defensive setup, with two holding midfielders and no midfield support for the striker. It is same old, same old, where we look a little better because the standard of our opponents is worse. 

Only watching the RamsTV highlights for Shrewsbury (so it may be wrong) we had 3 OK chances for our 80% match possession. The first and best fell to Stearman who headed wide but this was from a set piece not creative open play and, unfortunately, central defenders are not renowned as finishers or they'd be strikers. Then I would say Hourihane had a very good opportunity, but took the coward's way out and instead of shooting over hit a pass to Barkhuizen meaning the keeper was pretty much on the winger before he could shoot. Finally a ball to the far post reached substitute Sibley who brought it down and hit an absolutely blistering shot which their keeper somehow saved. 

In the post match RamsTV interview LR says it was 99% a good performance but he was cross we went long at the end and this was wrong. And we need to keep playing out from the back (the implication being we shouldn't vary this). 

It's frustrating because we seem to have assembled a squad capable of being right up there but we're not using the players properly and our tactics are wrong. Only 4 teams in League One have scored fewer goals than us. Everyone else from 15th place up has scored more than us. This is because we are not creating anything like enough chances, which is all down to poor team selection and tactics. 

[DerbyRevolution]

5 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

My concern is we have dropped a division but despite that are only creating a tiny number of chances each game. But that LR is deluding himself into believing we're creating loads of chances and just not taking them. And, because of this, LR claims he is extremely happy with how we're playing. I said before the season that if we were to think about promotion we had to completely change our mindset as a promotion-winning team must score goals. Instead we've stuck with the ultra defensive setup, with two holding midfielders and no midfield support for the striker. It is same old, same old, where we look a little better because the standard of our opponents is worse. 

Only watching the RamsTV highlights for Shrewsbury (so it may be wrong) we had 3 OK chances for our 80% match possession. The first and best fell to Stearman who headed wide but this was from a set piece not creative open play and, unfortunately, central defenders are not renowned as finishers or they'd be strikers. Then I would say Hourihane had a very good opportunity, but took the coward's way out and instead of shooting over hit a pass to Barkhuizen meaning the keeper was pretty much on the winger before he could shoot. Finally a ball to the far post reached substitute Sibley who brought it down and hit an absolutely blistering shot which their keeper somehow saved. 

In the post match RamsTV interview LR says it was 99% a good performance but he was cross we went long at the end and this was wrong. And we need to keep playing out from the back (the implication being we shouldn't vary this). 

It's frustrating because we seem to have assembled a squad capable of being right up there but we're not using the players properly and our tactics are wrong. Only 4 teams in League One have scored fewer goals than us. Everyone else from 15th place up has scored more than us. This is because we are not creating anything like enough chances, which is all down to poor team selection and tactics. 

Spot on

[DerbyRevolution]

We have the players available to finish in the top 6, even the top 2.

I don't want to get to May and finish 12th.

There will be plenty saying, ''12th?! be thankful you have a club''

I'm sorry but that has been and gone, we will forever be grateful to David Clowes for that side of things.

But that doesn't mean Liam Rosenior, or any manager, should be allowed to take a squad capable of finishing top 6 into mid table.

I really hope it works out, but on current tactics i'm not hopeful and I want to see some improvement to these tactics over the next 10 games.

I was hoping pre season the Interim title would be removed, I'm glad its still in place for now.

Edited August 17, 2022 by DerbyRevolution

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, DerbyRevolution said:

We have the players available to finish in the top 6, even the top 2.

I don't want to get to May and finish 12th.

There will be plenty saying, ''12th?! be thankful you have a club''

I'm sorry but that has been and gone, we will forever be grateful to David Clowes for that side of things.

But that doesn't mean Liam Rosenior, or any manager, should be allowed to take a squad capable of finishing top 6 into mid table.

I really hope it works out, but on current tactics i'm not hopeful and I want to see some improvement to these tactics over the next 10 games.

I was hoping pre season the Interim title would be removed, now I'm glad its still in place for now.

Yep. I worry that Rosenior is setting himself up to be Cocu-esque. We've some really good players and football at this level isn't that complicated, don't overthink it.

[DerbyRevolution]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yep. I worry that Rosenior is setting himself up to be Cocu-esque. We've some really good players and football at this level isn't that complicated, don't overthink it.

Agreed. We have better players all over the pitch, why don't we get involved in a football match. End to end.

[TomTom92]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yep. I worry that Rosenior is setting himself up to be Cocu-esque. We've some really good players and football at this level isn't that complicated, don't overthink it.

Funny you should say that, i believe both me and you were one of the early ones to show our disgruntlement over Cocu's tenure and i was making the similar connections during my lunch time thoughts. Lets hope its not history repeating itself. 

[mrdave85]

16 minutes ago, DerbyRevolution said:

I'm sorry but that has been and gone, we will forever be grateful to David Clowes for that side of things.

 

Disagree, while we’re still under the very stringent business plan set out by the EFL it’s still very much an ongoing thing.

[BondJovi]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yep. I worry that Rosenior is setting himself up to be Cocu-esque. We've some really good players and football at this level isn't that complicated, don't overthink it.

I see these Cocu comparisons but he was frequently wanting his players to be braver and play faster. Jan - lockdown was as close as we got to his ideas. It also coincided with great performances from Knight and Sibley. But when it was slow it was painful.

My concern is that our general approach for some years now has been very low on chance creation. We got by with Lampard because we had such individual brilliance. Bar the odd spell since we are more concerned with keeping the ball than scoring. It seems we are now taking that to the extreme.

I agree entirely, we have the players to make our life fairly easy in this league. I hope we get Knight out of Rb as soon as possible and actually trust Sibley.

[CBRammette]

When things were at their lowest some were in favour of leaving MM with stadium and starting a phoenix club. Imagine if Ashley had bought us and paid the minimum so we were starting with another points deduction. Based on the comments on here both scenarios would have gone down well! I dont think where we were at is a carte blanche for this season to be a write off with zero expectation but I think some of the comments so far are ridiculous at this stage. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I am happy to see how the squad gels and what combinations, formations, etc work well for LR (as long as we win at Cambridge!!!!). COYR??

[Carnero]

4 league games. FOUR!

Dearie me.

[IslandExile]

League Table for 1967-8, one place down from the season before.

Just sayin'.

https://www.11v11.com/teams/derby-county/tab/leagueTables/1968/

Fer chrissekes everyone, put things into context. What's happened over the past 2-3 years. Has it been forgotten???

This is a rebuilding job. The vast majority of the squad are new players - it will take time for them to gel. I hope and expect we may get a couple of Premier League players on loan to round things off.

And whatever Rosenior is saying publicly about the performance may not be a true indication of how he really feels or what he says privately to the players. It could simply be him publicly backing the players - something most fans want their manager to do.

This really is the era of the iPad - where instant success is demanded. It's not as though the results are that bad. Sheesh.

[Ghost of Clough]

We have 7 points from 4 games, the equivalent to 80.5 points over the season. Where would we finish with that tally in recent seasons?

21/22 - 7th
20/21 - 3rd
19/20 - 3rd
18/19 - 6th
17/18 - 4th
16/17 - 5th
15/16 - 5th
14/15 - 4th
13/14 - 6th
12/13 - 3rd

3 points for a win was introduced in 1980. Since then, 80.5 points wasn't enough to finish top 6 in 3 seasons. The others being 99/00 and 02/03.

At the start of the season, the general consensus was top 6 being the aim for this season. As things stand, we're on course to achieve just that.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Ghost of Clough

[RoyMac5]

I thought you lot wanted to talk about the football? Yet when some people talk about the football you don't like it? ?

[IslandExile]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I thought you lot wanted to talk about the football? Yet when some people talk about the football you don't like it? ?

There's talking about football in a reasoned, considered manner and there's calling for a manager to be sacked after four leagues games, two of which were won and only one lost - unluckily at that.

Constructive criticism is fine but over the top mardy reactions with the arrogance that we should win every game in this league....nah.

Edited August 17, 2022 by IslandExile

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

There's talking about football in a reasoned, considered manner and there's calling for a manager to be sacked after four leagues games, two of which were won and only one lost - unluckily at that.

Constructive criticism is fine but over the top mardy reactions with the arrogance that we should win every game in this league....nah.

Sorry who has asked for the manager to be sacked?

Talk about hyperbole. ? 

Oh and it's not arrogance, we have been the better team in all four games. We haven't scored the most goals though.

Edited August 17, 2022 by RoyMac5

[LazloW]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sorry who has asked for the manager to be sacked?

Talk about hyperbole. ? 

Oh and it's not arrogance, we have been the better team in all four games. We haven't scored the most goals though.

Lost one game. People have been questioning LR (and some querying whether he should be made permanent manager).  Do you not agree that 4 league games, with a brand new squad, which still has gaps in it (understandably) is a little early to be fretting about where we will end up this season.

I understand the urge to comment on the game and individuals, but to do so without consideration of context, or rationality, is ‘problematic’ and threatens to derail the mostly positive atmosphere (at least in terms of getting behind the team and management) that has been around the club for the last year or so.  

Negativity and criticism are fine when warranted, but I think some fans need to change where their bar for criticism and negativity kicks in. After last night, it seems pretty low (unreasonably so).

I’ve not read your comments about the game last night, so not aiming this particularly at you, but while talking about football is better than talking about administration, it doesn’t mean people should just be able to talk out of their……