Liam Rosenior

[DRBee]

Its nauseating to see all the criticism after 4 games, with a squad that has had so many  forced changes. 

The squad and the manager are doubtless able to improve but the unwelcome truth may be that we don't have strikers who are good enough- and that is most likely due to financial constraints.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, LazloW said:

Lost one game. People have been questioning LR (and some querying whether he should be made permanent manager).  Do you not agree that 4 league games, with a brand new squad, which still has gaps in it (understandably) is a little early to be fretting about where we will end up this season.

I understand the urge to comment on the game and individuals, but to do so without consideration of context, or rationality, is ‘problematic’ and threatens to derail the mostly positive atmosphere (at least in terms of getting behind the team and management) that has been around the club for the last year or so.  

Negativity and criticism are fine when warranted, but I think some fans need to change where their bar for criticism and negativity kicks in. After last night, it seems pretty low (unreasonably so).

I’ve not read your comments about the game last night, so not aiming this particularly at you, but while talking about football is better than talking about administration, it doesn’t mean people should just be able to talk out of their……  

A stitch in time saves nine.

#COYR

Edit: People are just talking about what they see - the 'conclusions' seem to be being added by others!

Edited August 17, 2022 by RoyMac5

[Tyler Durden]

38 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Its nauseating to see all the criticism after 4 games, with a squad that has had so many  forced changes. 

The squad and the manager are doubtless able to improve but the unwelcome truth may be that we don't have strikers who are good enough- and that is most likely due to financial constraints.

I did post yesterday that the word critique would be more appropriate in this situation and continue to stand by this especially in view of posts like yourselves. 

I do also counter your observation that our current goalscoring issue is down to a lack of goalscorers which patently it isn't on the evidence so far of this season - due to the style of play we're adopting we simply aren't creating an adequate enough number of opportunities to score from. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Tyler Durden

[nottingram]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I do also counter your observation that our current goalscoring issue is down to a lack of goalscorers which patently it isn't on the evidence so far of this season - due to the style of play we're adopting we simply aren't creating an adequate enough number of opportunities to score from. 

Is this the case?

Created plenty at Charlton but missed many chances, last night I did not watch but certainly looked like Stearman should have scored and probably Sibley too.

I don’t think style of play really comes into it. Chances are being created certainly in our first 3 games of the season but are largely being missed. Collins is the prime suspect of that but I have belief that at this stage of the season the main thing is he is getting in the spots to miss them.

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Is this the case?

Created plenty at Charlton but missed many chances, last night I did not watch but certainly looked like Stearman should have scored and probably Sibley too.

I don’t think style of play really comes into it. Chances are being created certainly in our first 3 games of the season but are largely being missed. Collins is the prime suspect of that but I have belief that at this stage of the season the main thing is he is getting in the spots to miss them.

The key point in this debate is the subjectivity around your statement "chances are being created".

OK so I challenge you back what is an acceptable number of chances to be creating per game. You mention the chances missed by Stearman and Sibley last night but that's 2 chances a game which simply isn't enough. 

If you're expecting us to convert a high percentage of a low number of chances then good luck finding a striker for free to do that. 

[B4ev6is]

I think were probleam lies only having one up top were we need two or 3 stikers as make harder the opposition to mark and keep them guessing but also at times wrong pass is made or wrong decisions making.

[DanS1992]

13 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Is this the case?

Created plenty at Charlton but missed many chances, last night I did not watch but certainly looked like Stearman should have scored and probably Sibley too.

I don’t think style of play really comes into it. Chances are being created certainly in our first 3 games of the season but are largely being missed. Collins is the prime suspect of that but I have belief that at this stage of the season the main thing is he is getting in the spots to miss them.

Creating chances? Not really creating that much are we for all the possession we are having. Maybe 2 or 3 chances a game so far, with probably 1 or 2 of them being decent goal scoring opportunities. We should be getting players into more goal scoring situations, which the current style of play seems to be limiting at the moment.

[nottingram]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The key point in this debate is the subjectivity around your statement "chances are being created".

OK so I challenge you back what is an acceptable number of chances to be creating per game. You mention the chances missed by Stearman and Sibley last night but that's 2 chances a game which simply isn't enough. 

If you're expecting us to convert a high percentage of a low number of chances then good luck finding a striker for free to do that. 

Well you can point to the 2 chances yesterday (plus Barkhuizen ish - should have been a better chance but an iffy final pass) and I can point to the 4-5 good to very good chances versus Charlton in the other game we didn’t win.

The point being it is far too early to say anything such as the style of play being an issue in winning games as we don’t create enough chances from it. 

[nottingram]

Just now, DanS1992 said:

Creating chances? Not really creating that much are we for all the possession we are having. Maybe 2 or 3 chances a game so far, with probably 1 or 2 of them being decent goal scoring opportunities. We should be getting players into more goal scoring situations, which the current style of play seems to be limiting at the moment.

How many are teams creating against us? How many are being created in the other 11 games in the division? 1-1.5 xG seems a good benchmark at this stage of the season from what I can see on Experimental 361. We’ve done that every game so far

[Carl Sagan]

30 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Is this the case?

Created plenty at Charlton but missed many chances, last night I did not watch but certainly looked like Stearman should have scored and probably Sibley too.

I don’t think style of play really comes into it. Chances are being created certainly in our first 3 games of the season but are largely being missed. Collins is the prime suspect of that but I have belief that at this stage of the season the main thing is he is getting in the spots to miss them.

Despite our dominance we created hardly any chances against Charlton (I would say three decent ones all game) and seemingly three again last night. Stearman's was a bad miss but he's a fourth-choice centre half. Sibley could not have hit his shot any better, but it was an excellent save. There was one more when Hourihane should have shot but played a poor pass to Barkhuizen instead. Three half chances a match is not enough. It might seem like it is because we've become used to such slim pickings over the last few seasons, but the reality is we need *a lot* more chances if we're to climb out of League One. It is not about strikers. Kevin Hector would not score in our team. It's about style of play and team selection.

[Tyler Durden]

17 minutes ago, nottingram said:

The point being it is far too early to say anything such as the style of play being an issue in winning games as we don’t create enough chances from it. 

I made the point earlier, one still can comment on what's been served up so far this season as that's the only baseline we have to judge against. 

The picture may be different in a couple of month's time, absolutely. But until we reach that point supporters can only draw their conclusions on what they've seen so far, and that's their total right and prerogative.

[nottingram]

8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I made the point earlier, one still can comment on what's been served up so far this season as that's the only baseline we have to judge against. 

The picture may be different in a couple of month's time, absolutely. But until we reach that point supporters can only draw their conclusions on what they've seen so far, and that's their total right and prerogative.

Of course you can comment on it. Everyone else can also comment that saying our style of play means we don’t create enough chances to win games is patently nonsense because we have already created enough chances to win half our games as well as miss a raft of chances in at least one of the other 2. 

[nottingram]

11 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Despite our dominance we created hardly any chances against Charlton (I would say three decent ones all game) and seemingly three again last night. Stearman's was a bad miss but he's a fourth-choice centre half. Sibley could not have hit his shot any better, but it was an excellent save. There was one more when Hourihane should have shot but played a poor pass to Barkhuizen instead. Three half chances a match is not enough. It might seem like it is because we've become used to such slim pickings over the last few seasons, but the reality is we need *a lot* more chances if we're to climb out of League One. It is not about strikers. Kevin Hector would not score in our team. It's about style of play and team selection.

Collins x 2 and Knight, versus Charlton, were I would argue a bit more than decent chances.

How many teams do you think are creating multiple good to very good chances per game at this level? How many have against us?

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, nottingram said:

Of course you can comment on it. Everyone else can also comment that saying our style of play means we don’t create enough chances to win games is patently nonsense because we have already created enough chances to win half our games as well as miss a raft of chances in at least one of the other 2. 

I ask you for a favour - don't take my word for it, refer to @Carl Sagans post summarising the views of Shrewsburys fans watching the game last night. It's very instructive.

And yes there is a common theme in all of those comments. And it's on the basis of last night we are toothless and sterile and we don't create any chances.

And we have lots of possession but that possession is shuffling the ball to our keeper and back constantly and after a point we hoof it upfield anyway. So the possession is totally pointless and has no end result. 

But like I said don't take my word for it.

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

I ask you for a favour - don't take my word for it, refer to @Carl Sagans post summarising the views of Shrewsburys fans watching the game last night. It's very instructive.

And yes there is a common theme in all of those comments. And it's on the basis of last night we are toothless and sterile and we don't create any chances.

And we have lots of possession but that possession is shuffling the ball to our keeper and back constantly and after a point we hoof it upfield anyway. So the possession is totally pointless and has no end result. 

But like I said don't take my word for it.

I have no interest in what Shrewsbury fans say to be honest, or in getting bogged down in the minutiae of one game against a team renowned for being absolute b******* to play against.

Feel free to check xG stats for teams in this league so far this season, and find me ones regularly creating, let’s say, 2+ per game. I use that as a benchmark as we are floating somewhere between 1 and 1.5. 

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I have no interest in what Shrewsbury fans say to be honest, or in getting bogged down in the minutiae of one game against a team renowned for being absolute b******* to play against.

Feel free to check xG stats for teams in this league so far this season, and find me ones regularly creating, let’s say, 2+ per game. I use that as a benchmark as we are floating somewhere between 1 and 1.5. 

I have done and we're 17th overall in that table for League 1. And funnily enough the team you criticise are higher than us in that same table. 

So I have done what you've asked and it still doesn't add any further credence to your argument.

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I have done and we're 17th overall in that table for League 1. And funnily enough the team you criticise are higher than us in that same table. 

So I have done what you've asked and it still doesn't add any further credence to your argument.

Ah ok that is not one I have seen, but I find that surprising when the individual game timelines would have us picking up between 8 and 10 points so far this season, suggesting 7th would be about right. Perhaps a different source

[Srg]

Fact of the matter at the moment is that Bird, Hourihane and Smith simply don’t work as a midfield trio. They all want it to feet, want to come short to the ball, want to play it relatively simple and recycle possession. None of them want to make runs, carry the ball, beat a man, and only Hourihane wants to get a shot off. Sibley, therefore, has to start unless Didzy comes in instead for one of them. We’ve only remotely looked dangerous in the games I’ve seen (Oxford, Barnsley and Shrewsbury) when Sibley has been on the pitch. The sooner Rosenior realises this trio doesn’t work the better. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Srg

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Ah ok that is not one I have seen, but I find that surprising when the individual game timelines would have us picking up between 8 and 10 points so far this season, suggesting 7th would be about right. Perhaps a different source

https://footystats.org/england/efl-league-one/xg

[Mihangel]

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

Its nauseating to see all the criticism after 4 games, with a squad that has had so many  forced changes. 

The squad and the manager are doubtless able to improve but the unwelcome truth may be that we don't have strikers who are good enough- and that is most likely due to financial constraints.

Exactly the word I was thinking this morning, I genuinely don't understand the negative mentality. So frustrating that the immense positivity that came in July, lasted about 2 weeks in to the season. As I posted earlier, I can only think of the sense of entitlement that some have but this board does seem particularly infected with this negativity.