Mel Morris interview on Radio Derby 1pm

[Ramtastic ones]

3 hours ago, Icomeinpeace said:

But its in danger of not being a going concern. The club are a business and like all businesses it's saleable value is based on the money it can make on the day-to-day plus the value of its assets. The administrators look at what it owes and how it can pay back that money through the sale of its assets and projected income over a period of time. The club are in all probability (sorry) going to be relegated so your income will likely fall from lower attendances, not a given but a probable, your value from sponsorship will fall as you'll in League 1, you don't own your stadium so you can't sell that, at present all you own is the contracts of your players. You look at the current squad and you have assets with some value like Sibley and Buchanan but not such else.

So you owe +£30 million pounds.... and your projected income is low and going to get lower and you own pretty much nothing. The administrator's only job is pay off your owings, if they rule that you are not a viable business so there's no likelihood of you meeting your current and future obligations then they can order the club be liquidated as the only way for the creditors to get anything back.   

Businesses look at the future potential for profit, not just assets and current profit, as they reflect the performance of the current board of directors, not what a future board of directors might realise.

[GenBr]

1 hour ago, jono said:

Less 20 million lost revenue on Covid and catastrophic player re valuations because of that .. Derby won’t be the first with this problem. It remains to be seen if the EFL chase others with the same vigour. I am not excusing Mel. His failures are huge and demonstrable but perspective is crucial. 

His major duck ups were his transfer policy, non playing staff recruitment and the ludicrous wages we paid. Covid made it worse, but it didnt cause the problem. We had to sell the stadium before covid came along. Covid is completely irrelevant for me when discussing Mels poor stewardship of the club. Its just an excuse and not a very good one.

[IslandExile]

35 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I didn't listen because we've heard nearly all of it before in one form or another.

That's hilarious.

Like when you used to criticise the team's performance in games under Cocu then admit you hadn't even seen the match.

I thought people who actually were listening already had closed minds to what was actually being said but to say you've heard it all before without even listening to it takes "pre-empting" to a new level.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Lets not forget, we are in administration because Mel stopped paying the bills. No other reason. His public explanation is he did that because he can't be rid of the club until he's stopped paying bills because no one will buy it in it's current state.

Whatever the reasons, the blame all goes to Mel in the end.

Now, Mel Morris is still a rich man. The bills did not stop being paid because Mel is insovlvant.

If the entry into adminsitration is the only way to get new ownership in, it really does not say a lot for your stewardship does it.

[Miggins]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I think the majority of people are turning to that opinion now.

Skim reading this thread sadly there's still people on here who will think the sun shines out of Morris' posterior whatever happens and can do no wrong.

Nowt as queer as folk as they say. 

Some posters think that Mel can do no wrong. Some think that he is a victim and some think he is a villain. Some prefer to think that the truth lies somewhere in between. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[curb]

4 minutes ago, GenBr said:

His major duck ups were his transfer policy, non playing staff recruitment and the ludicrous wages we paid. Covid made it worse, but it didnt cause the problem. We had to sell the stadium before covid came along. Covid is completely irrelevant for me when discussing Mels poor stewardship of the club. Its just an excuse and not a very good one.

I agree with you, but the point was we were trying to live on the edge of the cliff, COVID moved the cliff a mile inland.

[jono]

40 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

At the time, Mel indicated that the Butterfield and Johnson purchases were funded by insurance on Hughes and Bryson. There were lots of questions, but we never did get any details. Given that spin, it's hardly surprising that most fans were impressed. Mel appeared both ambitious and prudent.

Yes, and I was on board despite reservations and unease over loads of things. He sounded measured, responsible, wealthy. It all looked good. Somewhere along the way the financial advice he was taking was wrong .. but that’s no excuse. He employed these people, he was the pro businessman. It’s right that he is hammered, in part I suspect because he made enemies with bigger guns than he had. 

But bottom line, I still feel he was doing what he thought was his level best within a budget and terms he’d written for himself. He failed on a grand scale .. can’t escape that.

Deborah Meaden on the apprentice once said something like  .. All businesses have advisors with a raft of skills but it’s your decisions that count, it is your decisions for your business and you take responsibility for whatever advice you take (or not) 

I just feel sad for all of us but blame game is pointless

[Crewton]

44 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

There was nothing to stop MM making a loan to the club out of his own pocket once he realised we didn't qualify for the loan from the EFL

Except he may not have had £8.3M readily available with which to do that, we don't know.

I suppose he could have asked Wassall for a loan?

[GenBr]

4 minutes ago, curb said:

I agree with you, but the point was we were trying to live on the edge of the cliff, COVID moved the cliff a mile inland.

I do agree, but we were already off the edge of the cliff when we sold the stadium which allowed us to haul ourselves back up to the precipice. 

Covid was just a man stamping on the fingers of our rapidly tiring arms to speed up the process.

We're not the only club who will suffer severe consequences because of Covid, but its our own fault that we're going to be so crippled by it.

 

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

That's hilarious.

Like when you used to criticise the team's performance in games under Cocu then admit you hadn't even seen the match.

I thought people who actually were listening already had closed minds to what was actually being said but to say you've heard it all before without even listening to it takes "pre-empting" to a new level.

Go on then tell me the things YOU heard that Mel or other sources/EFL hasn't already told the media/press or fans in one form or another. Put your facts where your mouth is mate.

Edited September 19, 2021 by RoyMac5

[atherstoneram]

5 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Except he may not have had £8.3M readily available with which to do that, we don't know.

I suppose he could have asked Wassall for a loan?

We know very little,anyone of us on here.Things will be clearer when the Administrators have been through everything with a fine tooth comb.  I really hope for the safety/future of the club they don't turn up anything which puts the club in further jeopardy

[Ramtastic ones]

13 minutes ago, ram59 said:

Yes, it is correct what he said about player values dropping mainly in the last year of their contract and I don't see that it is illegal to do the amortisation in this way. Derby used this method in the belief that when the final year of these players' contracts were due, we would be in the premier league and then it wouldn't matter,  one of a number of gambles which didn't pay off. 

He also tried to justify Lampard's team's wages by saying that Rowett's compensation nearly covered their first season costs, but they were on 3 year contracts, how would we have covered the other 2 years?

Ultimately, he is responsible for what has happened to the club, he has taken gambles which haven't paid off. He and Derby have been unlucky on a number of occasions over the years with a number of events contributing to the current situation. Who knows, had Zamora not scored that goal, Hughes and Bryson got injured, Newcastle, Stoke and Chelsea not sacked their managers, EFL deciding our amortisation policy was wrong years later, EFL questioning the value of the ground, Lampard picking a different team against villa and finally the big one covid, we may have got away with it.

He probably thought that as it was his money, he was entitled to take the gamble. But unfortunately it isn't that simple and the reputation and status of the club are now in question.

So first of all this is no defence of MM. Like most I am fuming, but let's not let emotion get in the way of reality.

Players value depreciation at championship level is not relative to premiership and as MM pointed out if you under value an asset then sell it you get a tax bill, so whilst the EFL don't like it, technically MM is right. Not the first time the EFL are wrong and it won't be the last.

As for Lampards team, years 2 and 3 don't matter as they left of their own free will, so there was no cost. In fact we got a pay off so made a profit.

WE didn't get the rub of the green and MM made mistakes, big mistakes, but he tried. That is all now history. We need to move on, support the club and the players and together, with a fair wind and a pinch of overdue luck, we will come out of this.

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

In the interview Mel Morris makes some valid points about covid, parachute payments, Derby’s accounting policy and the football system being broken. He’s gambled a lot of money and it hasn’t worked out. He has not deliberately set out to ruin the club and his gamble almost paid off, achieving a playoff final. Ultimately however, his tenure is a failure, he has admitted this. The massive increase in wages did not necessarily make the team better, the club often made losses on players and the increase in debts has made the situation severe. 
I am unclear about the situation with charges and EFL withholding money during covid times, it seems that the EFL has a lot to answer for also, when accounting professionals had signed off Derby’s accounting practises etc and there has been almost a vendetta against the club or chairman it seems. 
I am wondering what Stephen Pearce’s role has been? A CEO but where is his accountability to ensure we have been kept financially secure? Has Morris’ tenure been almost a dictatorship? 
The worry now is the debts are so big no one will buy the club, could Derby County cease to exist soon? It’s easy to dismiss that idea as Derby is a big well supported club but the current climate with lack of assets owned coupled with debts and costs seems to be awful. 
Covid has been terrible for Derby but I’m guessing debts were spiralling long before this. I heard from someone important at the club about unsustainable spending back with big figures mentioned around 2016. The financial mismanagement has been going on for a long time chasing the Premier League. 
Under Mel’s tenure we have had some good times and he has helped develop the academy and training ground but it looks serious right now. 
Just hope we have a club to support 

Edited September 19, 2021 by TheresOnlyWanChope

[Chilwellram]

If administration is just around the corner how long can we keep on paying the players wages for  ?

[Rample]

4 hours ago, cannable said:

Lampard was on circa £2,000,000 a year… and I believe we got £5,000,000 on him which was used on Cocu’s salary!

If we got £5m for him it was probably immediately spnkd away on minimum credit card payments, and so we still had to pay wages from the general pot, not to mention inevitably severence, most of which is still outstanding.  

[Ruud Aralliss]

A lot more use of the L word in this thread than I would’ve liked. ?

[Miggins]

3 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I disagree. He did ask some decent questions, but often combined questions with some added needless lot of waffle. 

You could tell he was not a journalist. Day one at Journalism School: Ask one question then shut up. If the respondee is not answering the question, stop them and ask the question again then shut up.

I agree, @i-Ram, but perhaps he was just adding some background information for those not entirely in the know and for those of us who are deliberately obtuse!?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

He seemed to contradict himself to me.

Sure he said something about he would be getting back nothing like what he had put in.

Then he said he would be getting nothing back.

Also said he would do anything he could to help sell the club...well how about clearing all of the debts run up during his tenure...that would be a good start. 

That did cross my mind.  At least any tax due.  Is it 26 million. Not sure where that figures come from .  Seems pretty unlikely they would let PAYE arrears run that high.

[Ramtastic ones]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

i loved what he said about amortisation, did the work and established that most players do not lose their value in a straightline basis.  We bought senior players and our experience under his tenure is their value depreciated in a vertical straight line.  Businesses should use amortisation based on their corporate knowledge and experience.  What we chose was something that would crucify us in the last year of contracts because to do it any other way would have breached P&S

What Derby did was adopt a method that reflected the reality of football. Ronaldo for £13m, Bogle and Lowe for £7m. There is the reality. What do you think is better value? All will be worth nothing as an asset when their contracts expire.

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

In the interview Mel Morris makes some valid points about covid, parachute payments, Derby’s accounting policy and the football system being broken. He’s gambled a lot of money and it hasn’t worked out. He has not deliberately set out to ruin the club and his gamble almost paid off, achieving a playoff final. Ultimately however, his tenure is a failure, he has admitted this. The massive increase in wages did not necessarily make the team better, the club often made losses on players and the increase in debts has made the situation severe. 
I am unclear about the situation with charges and EFL withholding money during covid times, it seems that the EFL has a lot to answer for also, when accounting professionals had signed off Derby’s accounting practises etc and there has been almost a vendetta against the club or chairman it seems. 
I am wondering what Stephen Pearce’s role has been? A CEO but where is his accountability to ensure we have been kept financially secure? Has Morris’ tenure been almost a dictatorship? 
The worry now is the debts are so big no one will buy the club, could Derby County cease to exist soon? It’s easy to dismiss that idea as Derby is a big well supported club but the current climate with lack of assets owned coupled with debts and costs seems to be awful. 
Covid has been terrible for Derby but I’m guessing debts were spiralling long before this. I heard from someone important at the club about unsustainable spending back with big figures mentioned around 2016. The financial mismanagement has been going on for a long time chasing the Premier League. 
Under Mel’s tenure we have had some good times and he has helped develop the academy and training ground but it looks serious right now. 
Just hope we have a club to support 

IF (and it's still a big IF) the worse does happen, I would predict 1 of 2 things happens - either we do a Rangers and just pretend we're still the same club once a new club is fromed (as a business Called Derby COunty Football Club) and never shut up about how we're totally that same club that won the FA cup and the league twice (whilst forest and leicester fans never shut up about how we're not). Or. We create a phoenix club al la AFC Wimbledon that spritually is the continuation of Derby County (e.g. Derby City or something).

Either way, Derby is a city that loves it's football club and that love, demand, passion and drive will eventually lead to a professional football team in the top two divisions of english football.