Mel Morris interview on Radio Derby 1pm

[RadioactiveWaste]

The more I think about it, the less credible it seems the administration can possibly be anything other than Mel is fed of paying and isn't going to do it any more.

 

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Spanish said:

i loved what he said about amortisation, did the work and established that most players do not lose their value in a straightline basis.  We bought senior players and our experience under his tenure is their value depreciated in a vertical straight line.  Businesses should use amortisation based on their corporate knowledge and experience.  What we chose was something that would crucify us in the last year of contracts because to do it any other way would have breached P&S

You will have noted that he said a model of 25,000 player sales showed the straight line amortisation was not appropriate.

4 hours ago, Spanish said:

in covid he bought the stadium and may have used the debt to counter the funding.  We don't know because the accounts have been ate by his dog

He bought the stadium in 2018, not during Covid 

4 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

At the time, Mel indicated that the Butterfield and Johnson purchases were funded by insurance on Hughes and Bryson. There were lots of questions, but we never did get any details. Given that spin, it's hardly surprising that most fans were impressed. Mel appeared both ambitious and prudent.

I dont think he ever indicated this, just that the players wages would be covered by insurance 

4 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

There was nothing to stop MM making a loan to the club out of his own pocket once he realised we didn't qualify for the loan from the EFL

Nothing to stop you making a loan to the club either was there?

3 hours ago, Spanish said:

You think our model reflected reality?  Really you do?

See above comment. My gripe was always over the valuation given to individual players but I believe the model is more suitable than straight line and is fully compliant with FRS is applied correctly, something that our auditors concluded we had done.

1 hour ago, ck- said:

Except that if I recall correctly, we were criticised, even by the broadly supportive original hearing, for having no records for how we calculated values. No process, no formula, and - crucially - no evidence whatsoever.

Did I misremember?

There must have been records available for the auditors.

54 minutes ago, Spanish said:

He owes cash for the purchase, the funds he has put in since then could be itemised as loan repayments, why is that incorrect?

Where do you have this information from?

[brady1993]

16 minutes ago, Norman said:

I think some people literally think someone will buy us in the next few weeks and pay all the debts off, whilst financing a rebuild for League 1 in the summer

Not going to happen. 

Right now I'd snap your hand off at the first two. 

The sooner we get taken over and the debt cleared the sooner we can actually rebuild in some way even if the new owner doesnt want to throw money around. 

[atherstoneram]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

You will have noted that he said a model of 25,000 player sales showed the straight line amortisation was not appropriate.

He bought the stadium in 2018, not during Covid 

I dont think he ever indicated this, just that the players wages would be covered by insurance 

Nothing to stop you making a loan to the club either was there?

See above comment. My gripe was always over the valuation given to individual players but I believe the model is more suitable than straight line and is fully compliant with FRS is applied correctly, something that our auditors concluded we had done.

There must have been records available for the auditors.

Where do you have this information from?

I don't own the club,didn't see you shouting up to help out either

[Ramtastic ones]

6 minutes ago, Spanish said:

In terms of player value you can only depreciate 

I'll now to your greater knowledge. EFL rule or accountancy rule. If the latter, with regards tangible assets which players and shares are (I think) then how can the EFL apply a rule that doesn't apply in every other business model.

[AndyinLiverpool]

If the club is £60,000,000 in debt, I'm sure that it is technically insolvent. There's no way it has assets near that value.

[Abu Derby]

So if it hadn’t been for COVID we wouldn’t have been placed into administration? 
Then why are half of the Championship clubs most of which haven’t benefited from parachute payments, still trading. This includes small clubs such as Brentford, Boro and Notts Forest. 
Brentford even got promoted!

[IslandExile]

3 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

If the club is £60,000,000 in debt, I'm sure that it is technically insolvent. There's no way it has assets near that value.

Are you forgetting Louie Sibley?

[IslandExile]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

If the club is £60,000,000 in debt, I'm sure that it is technically insolvent. There's no way it has assets near that value.

 

1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

Are you forgetting Louie Sibley?

And I know an accountant down the chip shop reckons he could do the club's books so that something close to 60 mill would be Jagielka's residual value at the end of his contract in January.

[atherstoneram]

Just now, IslandExile said:

 

And I know an accountant down the chip shop reckons he could do the club's books so that something close to 60 mill would be Jagielka's residual value at the end of his contract in January.

His name wouldn't be Elvis would it.

[G STAR RAM]

11 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

I don't own the club,didn't see you shouting up to help out either

Well you wouldn't have because I didn't know about it until today.

And even if I had known I would have been asking why the EFL was not supported one of its members, rather than demanding MM put more of his own money in.

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

If the club is £60,000,000 in debt, I'm sure that it is technically insolvent. There's no way it has assets near that value.

Where are you getting the figure of £60m from?

[atherstoneram]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well you wouldn't have because I didn't know about it until today.

And even if I had known I would have been asking why the EFL was not supported one of its members, rather than demanding MM put more of his own money in.

You know why the EFL didn't give us the loan,how many more times do you need to keep bringing it up

[Crewton]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Where are you getting the figure of £60m from?

£26m HMRC 

£6m transfer installments 

£5m Cocu & Co

£23m Mr Crapadollopous of Bristol for his work on our accounts. 

[Icomeinpeace]

4 hours ago, Ramtastic ones said:

Businesses look at the future potential for profit, not just assets and current profit, as they reflect the performance of the current board of directors, not what a future board of directors might realise.

They do you're right - but where is the potential for profit? You have to take a  balanced look at any potential prospects. I'm not having a go here because I'm a red. I think my posts show I have no issues with Derby at all, but as we've said you're around +£30-60 million in immediate debt, and in administration so any funds the club do have will go to paying your creditors, you've already loaned against your physical assets so no chance to use them to raise funds, with the multiple points deductions you'll in all likelihood be playing in a lower league with even less TV money, potentially a lower gate and be less attractive to sponsors plus you have very few players (even saleable ones) and an embargo on transfers .... if you had a spare £40 million to spare to invest in a club in all honestly why would you use it to effectively just pay off the debt of Derby and have nothing to invest and be in that league and position when you could probably buy a team like Sunderland and use the funds to invest in straight away and get promotion rather than spend a few years just trying to get Derby back on an even keel. I really struggle to the upside for any potential owner - at least any reputable one.    

I think the real state of the finances will only become clear over the next few weeks and months and it could get really ugly. I've heard that Kieran McGuire, the University of Liverpool football finance lecturer who does a podcast called The Price of Football  has reportedly said that he's had off the record conversations with people connected to the club and the suggestion has been that potential buyer(s) have been put off by the level of debt in the accounts. Now the "published" debt is around £37 million, I think that the deeper debt may be much higher.  

Edited September 19, 2021 by Icomeinpeace

[Crewton]

If all you have spare is £40m, you wouldn't be buying Derby County anyway. 

[Ramos]

2 minutes ago, Icomeinpeace said:

They do you're right - but where is the potential for profit? You have to take a  balanced look at any potential prospects. I'm not having a go here because I'm a red. I think my posts show I have no issues with Derby at all, but as we've said you're around +£30-60 million in immediate debt, and in administration so any funds the club do have will go to paying your creditors, you've already loaned against your physical assets so no chance to use them to raise funds, with the multiple points deductions you'll in all likelihood be playing in a lower league with even less TV money, potentially a lower gate and be less attractive to sponsors plus you have very few players (even saleable ones) and an embargo on transfers .... if you had a spare £40 million to spare to invest in a club in all honestly why would you use it to effectively just pay off the debt of Derby and have nothing to invest and be in that league and position when you could probably buy a team like Sunderland and use the funds to invest in straight away and get promotion rather than spend a few years just trying to get Derby back on an even keel. I really struggle to the upside for any potential owner - at least any reputable one.    

I think we just have to hope someone somewhere fancies themselves to be a hero, has enough money to throw around to do it and is stupid enough to do it. But yes you’re not far wrong, it’s the sad reality of the state Derby is in and you’d like to think there would be enough people in football who don’t want a club like Derby to go bust if anything it really does set a bad precedent even if you don’t like Derby -  clearly football hasn’t learned from Bury and Maccasfield, maybe it takes a club like Derby to wake the pyramid up to make real changes - cause if Derby go it could easily be a forest (or by the sounds of it reading next). 

[IslandExile]

5 minutes ago, Icomeinpeace said:

They do you're right - but where is the potential for profit? You have to take a  balanced look at any potential prospects. I'm not having a go here because I'm a red. I think my posts show I have no issues with Derby at all, but as we've said you're around +£30-60 million in immediate debt, and in administration so any funds the club do have will go to paying your creditors, you've already loaned against your physical assets so no chance to use them to raise funds, with the multiple points deductions you'll in all likelihood be playing in a lower league with even less TV money, potentially a lower gate and be less attractive to sponsors plus you have very few players (even saleable ones) and an embargo on transfers .... if you had a spare £40 million to spare to invest in a club in all honestly why would you use it to effectively just pay off the debt of Derby and have nothing to invest and be in that league and position when you could probably buy a team like Sunderland and use the funds to invest in straight away and get promotion rather than spend a few years just trying to get Derby back on an even keel. I really struggle to the upside for any potential owner - at least any reputable one.    

 

Just leave us alone.

Things are bad enough as it is without having a Forest fan ramming it down our throats just how bad.

[Icomeinpeace]

7 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

 

Just leave us alone.

Things are bad enough as it is without having a Forest fan ramming it down our throats just how bad.

Sorry - not trying to rub anything in, honestly wish you all the best of luck

Edited September 19, 2021 by Icomeinpeace

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

As 2019/20 was also affected by Covid, how would it be fair to treat it as a normal year within that particular 3 year period? 

I'd assumed that the 4-year period meant there wouldn't be any assessment for 2018-20.

Covid losses are excluded (essentially match day income treated as though we still had fans in the ground). Bot just match day income, but that makes up a significant chunk of it.. about £5m in total for us in 19/20