Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[Gritstone Ram]

I bet this will have been mentioned a number of times but I’ll state the obvious.

MM wants to sell the club but under the current climate the club is not a good investment. Even if there was no pandemic the club isn’t a good investment but it is better with match day income. 
I’m not even sure I would want to buy it even if I won the Euromillions record jackpot. If fans were allowed back in and things returned to near normal then it would be easier to take on. I don’t think people are giving MM the credit he deserves by keeping the club afloat. 

[Tamworthram]

8 minutes ago, Gritstone Ram said:

I bet this will have been mentioned a number of times but I’ll state the obvious.

MM wants to sell the club but under the current climate the club is not a good investment. Even if there was no pandemic the club isn’t a good investment but it is better with match day income. 
I’m not even sure I would want to buy it even if I won the Euromillions record jackpot. If fans were allowed back in and things returned to near normal then it would be easier to take on. I don’t think people are giving MM the credit he deserves by keeping the club afloat. 

I agree. He deserves heavy criticism (based on what we think we know) for allowing us to get in such a mess in the first place but credit for continuing to support now. I accept that as owner he has certain responsibilities but he could quite easily say enough is enough. 

[MrPlinkett]

I may be misunderstanding but i have always had the feeling if it wasnt for the restraints of FFP/P&s Mel would continue to fund and actively still be trying to secure promotion.

Its the shackles the EFL have implemented in an attempt to protect clubs that are actually causing damage, and potentially putting clubs at risk, not because owners dont have the funds, but because they wont let the owners spend it.

Do the EFL actually want clubs to go out of business? It actually seems that way with the rules they have in place. They are very poor custodians of the football league and really need to take a step back and decide what it is they are trying to do.

When it comes down to appealing over the way something is written on paper then for me it shows they do no have the best interests of the game in mind.

[GenBr]

38 minutes ago, MrPlinkett said:

I may be misunderstanding but i have always had the feeling if it wasnt for the restraints of FFP/P&s Mel would continue to fund and actively still be trying to secure promotion.

Its the shackles the EFL have implemented in an attempt to protect clubs that are actually causing damage, and potentially putting clubs at risk, not because owners dont have the funds, but because they wont let the owners spend it.

Do the EFL actually want clubs to go out of business? It actually seems that way with the rules they have in place. They are very poor custodians of the football league and really need to take a step back and decide what it is they are trying to do.

When it comes down to appealing over the way something is written on paper then for me it shows they do no have the best interests of the game in mind.

I hate FFP as much as the next man, but I don't think the "shackles" implemented by the EFL are what are causing the damage. Mel has known the rules since he purchased the club and has only himself to blame for the failure to stay within those rules. Limiting spending is not going to put your club at more risk - it might make it a lot more difficult to get promoted, but I can't see how its going to make anybody go out of business. If we'd followed the rules and not tried creative ways to get around them we would be fine.

The fact that the EFL has done basically nothing to help with Covid and is actively punishing clubs who have yet to file their accounts is the main issue for me at the moment. They are completely out of touch and frankly I don't think they will be happy until they have destroyed a few more of their member clubs entirely.

[Anag Ram]

The premier league spends billions with abandon yet the leagues aspiring to join this ‘elite’ are kept in their place, ensuring a gulf in quality exists between the two. 
 

It’s not Football Fair Play. It’s cronyism protecting the top teams.

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, MrPlinkett said:

I may be misunderstanding but i have always had the feeling if it wasnt for the restraints of FFP/P&s Mel would continue to fund and actively still be trying to secure promotion.

Its the shackles the EFL have implemented in an attempt to protect clubs that are actually causing damage, and potentially putting clubs at risk, not because owners dont have the funds, but because they wont let the owners spend it.

Do the EFL actually want clubs to go out of business? It actually seems that way with the rules they have in place. They are very poor custodians of the football league and really need to take a step back and decide what it is they are trying to do.

When it comes down to appealing over the way something is written on paper then for me it shows they do no have the best interests of the game in mind.

FFP/P&S tries to link clubs' expenditure to their incomes. It could have been effective in stopping clubs getting into financial difficulty and gradually reduced costs if it wasn't for the incentive of promotion and the inbuilt advantage given to clubs related from the Premier League. Even without those issues, I personally don't like the idea because it reduces competition. If FFP worked, Derby, Forest and Wednesday would be untouchable by Wycombe, Rotherham and Brentford. Eventually, you could predict the final league table on the first day of the season.

But it doesn't even work in its primary goal because everyone wants to get promoted and that means competing with clubs able to spend £50m more per season. That money cannot come from owners - which is sustainable if the owners have the will and the means, so clubs have to find schemes to get around the rules. 

FFP in the Championship was the worst idea ever in football...and I said that a long time before it bit Derby County.

[therams69]

20 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just to be clear here, your gripe is that MM has told us the situation via the national media rather than the local media?

As for distancing themselves from the fans, when and where exactly were you expecting them to engage the fans? You are aware of the pandemic aren't you?

One of many gripes is that yes. Is it not yours? Does it not concern or bother you that they refuse to go via Radio Derby or Steve Nicholson? Promises of calls back yet they never come. Why? Because we know the situation better here in Derby than what Jim White knows in London hence why questions would be asked here as opposed to the nationals where they are not. All controlled by Mel and doing it his way, I call that the easy way....

Well considering we used to meet every couple of months via the supporter charter that would be a great start. A meeting of around 10 or so people. Now if only technology was in place that could still allow the meetings to go ahead. Perhaps I should look at building something that would allow this to happen, I could call it Zoom. Obviously all participants need to be willing of course as opposed to refusing to speak....

In terms of a pandemic - you could say I am fully aware yes considering I work in Travel, the most affected sector.

[G STAR RAM]

11 minutes ago, therams69 said:

One of many gripes is that yes. Is it not yours? Does it not concern or bother you that they refuse to go via Radio Derby or Steve Nicholson? Promises of calls back yet they never come. Why? Because we know the situation better here in Derby than what Jim White knows in London hence why questions would be asked here as opposed to the nationals where they are not. All controlled by Mel and doing it his way, I call that the easy way....

Well considering we used to meet every couple of months via the supporter charter that would be a great start. A meeting of around 10 or so people. Now if only technology was in place that could still allow the meetings to go ahead. Perhaps I should look at building something that would allow this to happen, I could call it Zoom. Obviously all participants need to be willing of course as opposed to refusing to speak....

In terms of a pandemic - you could say I am fully aware yes considering I work in Travel, the most affected sector.

No, not really a gripe of mine, I dont listen to Radio Derby so would be much more likely to see or hear something in the national media than local, but I guess everyone is different.

I'd say local media are much more likely to report on something in the national media than vice versa though. 

Fair point on the Zoom meetings, given that MM has had health issues I guess he believes he has more important things to worry about, no such excuse for the CEO though. 

 

[Archied]

40 minutes ago, therams69 said:

One of many gripes is that yes. Is it not yours? Does it not concern or bother you that they refuse to go via Radio Derby or Steve Nicholson? Promises of calls back yet they never come. Why? Because we know the situation better here in Derby than what Jim White knows in London hence why questions would be asked here as opposed to the nationals where they are not. All controlled by Mel and doing it his way, I call that the easy way....

Well considering we used to meet every couple of months via the supporter charter that would be a great start. A meeting of around 10 or so people. Now if only technology was in place that could still allow the meetings to go ahead. Perhaps I should look at building something that would allow this to happen, I could call it Zoom. Obviously all participants need to be willing of course as opposed to refusing to speak....

In terms of a pandemic - you could say I am fully aware yes considering I work in Travel, the most affected sector.

Those around 10 or so people in the meeting ,,,, do they get given full and frank details of the financial position the club is in ? 
do they then pass it on from there to the whole fanbase ? Or do they hold back this information for the good of the club? 

[therams69]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, not really a gripe of mine, I dont listen to Radio Derby so would be much more likely to see or hear something in the national media than local, but I guess everyone is different.

I'd say local media are much more likely to report on something in the national media than vice versa though. 

Fair point on the Zoom meetings, given that MM has had health issues I guess he believes he has more important things to worry about, no such excuse for the CEO though. 

 

I think my point is more to the point that the likes of Nico, Ed Dawes etc know what is going on so can ask relevant 'tough' questions, same cannot be said for Jim White. I would just love to understand why they refuse to go on local radio or the DET yet will go out their way to go on Talksport or the Mail. 

This is why you have a CEO. Just a shame at Derby its in name only.

[therams69]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Those around 10 or so people in the meeting ,,,, do they get given full and frank details of the financial position the club is in ? 
do they then pass it on from there to the whole fanbase ? Or do they hold back this information for the good of the club? 

Some bits of the meeting are P & C which cannot be disclosed which is fair enough.

The other 95% though is issued through minutes by the club as to which is then sent to whatever supporter base the person at the table is representing. For example David and this forum asked questions that members would like to submit and then would issue minutes from the meetings.

Full and frank financial details of the club - not by the £ no. But as I have said I have raised questions about recruitment team and the 4 players on 5m per year as an idea and many others have raised other issues surrounding the finances. The stadium was mentioned and we were told it was NOT for FFP as we would easily pass FFP - Believe what you want on that...

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, therams69 said:

I think my point is more to the point that the likes of Nico, Ed Dawes etc know what is going on so can ask relevant 'tough' questions, same cannot be said for Jim White. I would just love to understand why they refuse to go on local radio or the DET yet will go out their way to go on Talksport or the Mail. 

This is why you have a CEO. Just a shame at Derby its in name only.

Well if these local journalists 'know what is going on' why dont they say and then I am sure there will be more pressure from the fanbase for the club to come clean.

From the little I do see of the local media, they seem to just regurgitate articles from national media and internet forums, so not sure I agree that they know any more than us.

7 minutes ago, therams69 said:

Some bits of the meeting are P & C which cannot be disclosed which is fair enough.

The other 95% though is issued through minutes by the club as to which is then sent to whatever supporter base the person at the table is representing. For example David and this forum asked questions that members would like to submit and then would issue minutes from the meetings.

Full and frank financial details of the club - not by the £ no. But as I have said I have raised questions about recruitment team and the 4 players on 5m per year as an idea and many others have raised other issues surrounding the finances. The stadium was mentioned and we were told it was NOT for FFP as we would easily pass FFP - Believe what you want on that...

If parts of meetings are private and confidential they should not be discussed at all, it leads to situations like you have created here, whereby you are expecting people to act just on your word.

It was one of the things that annoyed me about Breakfast Club, MM said things and then asked for them not to be repeated. Its no way to act.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, therams69 said:

Some bits of the meeting are P & C which cannot be disclosed which is fair enough.

The other 95% though is issued through minutes by the club as to which is then sent to whatever supporter base the person at the table is representing. For example David and this forum asked questions that members would like to submit and then would issue minutes from the meetings.

Full and frank financial details of the club - not by the £ no. But as I have said I have raised questions about recruitment team and the 4 players on 5m per year as an idea and many others have raised other issues surrounding the finances. The stadium was mentioned and we were told it was NOT for FFP as we would easily pass FFP - Believe what you want on that...

So the result is an extra ten people have the answers on the vital stuff that concerns most people but can’t really reveal to the fanbase , pretty much like mel and Stephen now ??‍♂️, we then have the scenario of people saying you would / should be worried if you knew the full picture but I/ we can’t really tell you,

I think it’s great you are concerned for the club , we all are in the main but what your expecting and asking for is totally unrealistic, that coupled with the clear fact that the owner you have the concerns about wants out as quick as he can now anyway ,

im at a total loss as to what your trying to achieve??‍♂️

[therams69]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well if these local journalists 'know what is going on' why dont they say and then I am sure there will be more pressure from the fanbase for the club to come clean.

From the little I do see of the local media, they seem to just regurgitate articles from national media and internet forums, so not sure I agree that they know any more than us.

If parts of meetings are private and confidential they should not be discussed at all, it leads to situations like you have created here, whereby you are expecting people to act just on your word.

It was one of the things that annoyed me about Breakfast Club, MM said things and then asked for them not to be repeated. Its no way to act.

Sorry let me be more clear... When I said "know what is going on" I was referring to the actual situation and feeling amongst fans as opposed to them actually knowing what is going on. I doubt Jim White has a clue or Simon Jordan (who i actually really rate btw) on how fans are being kept in the dark about so much.

I haven't disclosed anything that is private and confidential from those meetings. Anything that came out of the meetings I used to post and tell fans, as did others...

[therams69]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

So the result is an extra ten people have the answers on the vital stuff that concerns most people but can’t really reveal to the fanbase , pretty much like mel and Stephen now ??‍♂️, we then have the scenario of people saying you would / should be worried if you knew the full picture but I/ we can’t really tell you,

I think it’s great you are concerned for the club , we all are in the main but what your expecting and asking for is totally unrealistic, that coupled with the clear fact that the owner you have the concerns about wants out as quick as he can now anyway ,

im at a total loss as to what your trying to achieve??‍♂️

Did you miss the point about the minutes from the meetings being disclosed to all fans? There is no point going to these meetings if practically all of the information is kept quiet. 

What I said was not in relation to these meetings, I thought that would be pretty clear since we haven't met for over a year. I have in various replies mentioned things I raised at the meetings as general knowledge that perhaps has been forgotten over the years.

You say you are at a loss as to what I am trying to achieve but the sentence above contradicts that. You know and many others know what I am after. 

We all know Mel wants rid, he has said that and has also been very unsuccessful and unprofessional in trying to get rid, that you cannot deny. The question is will he be dragging this club down with him and that is where we should all be coming together (and will be) to collectively get some answers. 

[S8TY]

12 hours ago, Gritstone Ram said:

I bet this will have been mentioned a number of times but I’ll state the obvious.

MM wants to sell the club but under the current climate the club is not a good investment. Even if there was no pandemic the club isn’t a good investment but it is better with match day income. 
I’m not even sure I would want to buy it even if I won the Euromillions record jackpot. If fans were allowed back in and things returned to near normal then it would be easier to take on. I don’t think people are giving MM the credit he deserves by keeping the club afloat. 

Are we the ONLY club suffering because of the pandemic then ? Some real misjudgments seem to have been made well before any pandemic and would anyone be seriously interested in not only buying the club but being saddled with huge debts 

I think Mel has tried to help DCFC but mistakes have been made and asking for too much money for the club now will elongate our problems when we need to be moving forward

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, therams69 said:

Sorry let me be more clear... When I said "know what is going on" I was referring to the actual situation and feeling amongst fans as opposed to them actually knowing what is going on. I doubt Jim White has a clue or Simon Jordan (who i actually really rate btw) on how fans are being kept in the dark about so much.

I haven't disclosed anything that is private and confidential from those meetings. Anything that came out of the meetings I used to post and tell fans, as did others...

Perhaps that is because they have also seen and heard MMs interviews in the national media so, like alot of us, dont actually believe they are being kept in the dark.

Yes, was not accusing you of doing that, I just think its completely wrong for the club to reveal information to a select few, that they would not reveal to the whole fanbase. I'd hope that any groups that are supposedly representing the fans would point this out too.

[Tyler Durden]

10 minutes ago, therams69 said:

You say you are at a loss as to what I am trying to achieve but the sentence above contradicts that. You know and many others know what I am after. 

We all know Mel wants rid, he has said that and has also been very unsuccessful and unprofessional in trying to get rid, that you cannot deny. The question is will he be dragging this club down with him and that is where we should all be coming together (and will be) to collectively get some answers. 

I'll be honest with you I'm very unclear as well aproros what you're trying to achieve?

I'm one of Mel Morris' critics but can't see how you can say he's been unprofessional in trying to get rid of the club? If someone wants to sell an asset that that's business not sure where being professional or unprofessional comes into the matter?

[therams69]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Perhaps that is because they have also seen and heard MMs interviews in the national media so, like alot of us, dont actually believe they are being kept in the dark.

Yes, was not accusing you of doing that, I just think its completely wrong for the club to reveal information to a select few, that they would not reveal to the whole fanbase. I'd hope that any groups that are supposedly representing the fans would point this out too.

And I will always go back to .... "what is the point in speaking to the National Media when your fan base (a size of our club) is in Derby?"

Please tell me why you think that is.. Both have asked. Both are denied. Why?

The whole point of the meetings is so that members of said groups, like you on here, can ask something and that info is then relayed back to you. All part of good dialogue between club and the fans, something that is very important. This is no elite club for said 10 people, Punjabi Rams, RamsTrust, DCFCFANS, have all sent different members on different occasions.

Absolutely. We are all fans after all!

[therams69]

8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'll be honest with you I'm very unclear as well aproros what you're trying to achieve?

I'm one of Mel Morris' critics but can't see how you can say he's been unprofessional in trying to get rid of the club? If someone wants to sell an asset that that's business not sure where being professional or unprofessional comes into the matter?

Quite simply, as I said in my first ever original post on this matter, to get Mel or Stephen Pearce (both current custodians of this football club) to come out and speak to the fans via local radio or the DET in an open manner and tell us that this football club is going to be okay. I do not expect the finer details of takeover covered by NDC's to be mentioned. 

When I say unprofessional I am eluding to the fact that both parties that we have agreed takeovers with have not materialised and on both occasions its always down to the said main guy not having the money. So when i say unprofessional I am referring to the due diligence that is done on these parties. It was clear from the offset that the Sheikh was not a cousin of the Man City owner and it was clear Alonso, well what can I say......

It comes into the matter because to buy a football club, serious checks have to be made on said individuals. As Mel has said before, these checks are very thorough and he would not sell to anyone. Are you really telling me either of these 2 parties had any metal about them? I guess you could say when you are desperate and all that your judgement goes missing...