Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

3 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

No way we owe PC and co 8 mill , thought the loan was 17.5 mill even on the Fail figures ? 
If the stadium has a valuation of 80 mill and the turnover with fans in the ground a very attractive proposition. DCFC have only ever leased the training ground however the mere fact that we have one that a new owner doesn’t have to build again is another plus . 

Agree Reggie, but the point remains, debt free what is DCFC worth? 

[derby8]

58 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Mel was quoted as saying £60m worst case, so I'm not sure how you've concluded it could be higher than that figure.

The £47.8m is itemised with a balance of £12.2m making £60m. I'm thinking of say season tickets for 19/20(part) and 20/21 paid for but not used and rolled forward to 21/22 or when spectators allowed. The money received may already be spent. So even with spectators the 21/22 income could be lower than usual. Not sure how big an issue this is.

[Reggie Greenwood]

Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Agree Reggie, but the point remains, debt free what is DCFC worth? 

I suppose whatever Mel and a prospective owner agree to ? Don’t think you could easily put a figure on that. 

[derby8]

59 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Throw in the corner flag and we have a deal ? 

Oh, wait. I'll have to find some people to stump up the cash.

Burnley were leveraged hugely a few months ago. PL, just, but DC have several other advantages so if no cash buyer a leveraged purchase could be on the cards given the right football and business plan.

[Spanish]

45 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

How much of the debt is monies owing to Mel ? 

must be less than what he owes to the club for the purchase of PP?

Edited May 15, 2021 by Spanish

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, derby8 said:

Burnley were leveraged hugely a few months ago. PL, just, but DC have several other advantages so if no cash buyer a leveraged purchase could be on the cards given the right football and business plan.

What would that entail as the Club has only its debts and the Academy?

Edited May 15, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Archied]

5 hours ago, therams69 said:

Appreciate we all have views on the Daily Mail or the EFL for that matter but there is never smoke without fire. As I said, we can bury our heads in the sand all we like and just say these articles are rubbish and they have it in for us but I am sorry but these are concerning issues that are not going to go away and the Daily Mail are right to publish them.

My personal opinion is that anyone would be stupid to takeover Derby County. Our club is in an absolute state of a mess. What from the outside would look a great proposition is not so rosy for any potential investor, clearly.

My original post was demanding that the custodians of our club speak to the fans and tell us what is going on. I stand by that and action is already underway to further pursue this. I do hope other fans feel it more so now.

Stephen Pearce and Mel Morris have run this club into the ground. They are responsible for this and owe the fans an explanation.

The next thing we will see is Wayne Rooney walk and I do not blame him.

So you demand that mel Morris and Stephen Pearson come out in public and state that the club is in chronic position and apologise to the fans whilst giving the facts and figures to the public domain?

that helps the club how ?

[derby8]

25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What would that entail as the Club has only its debts and the Academy?

As I understand it the training ground/academy has always been rented, so put that to one side. Of the '£60m debts' quite a chunk is the 'mortgage' on the stadium. So to buy DC+PP need say £60m to clear debts. New owner stumps up £60m or a lower figure if MM agrees to pay off some of the debt. Suggested above 50/50, so new owner needs £30m to cover debts, pays MM a nominal £1. Either cash or borrows/leverages. As with Burnley a lender who looks at the football/business plan and decides to back it.

A  cash buyer who converts the £30m into shares, foregoes a dividend, looks to capital growth, via football success and financial expertise preferred. 

Leveraged buy-out results in largish repayments/interest eroding revenues, second choice.

Edited May 15, 2021 by derby8

[Chester40]

Fact remains I didn't get the plan for Alonso as he seemed to just be gambling on promotion - which seemed remarkably risky for a serious businessman. 

Same thinking remains for 'valuing' the club. Its a bottomless pit with very little value currently. Its like taking over a run down, overstaffed pub in the middle of nowhere, its just a poor investment. If you found out a huge housing estate was being planned on the doorstep it suddenly may have some value but until they start building its not worth much. 

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, derby8 said:

As I understand it the training ground/academy has always been rented, so put that to one side. Of the '£60m debts' quite a chunk is the 'mortgage' on the stadium. So to buy DC+PP need say £60m to clear debts. New owner stumps up £60m or a lower figure if MM agrees to pay off some of the debt. Suggested above 50/50, so new owner needs £30m. Either cash or borrows/leverages. As with Burnley a lender who looks at the football/business plan and decides to back it.

A  cash buyer who converts the £30m into shares, foregoes a dividend, looks to capital growth, via football success and financial expertise preferred. 

Leveraged buy-out results in largish repayments/interest eroding revenues, second choice.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/leveragedbuyout.asp

"LBOs are conducted for three main reasons:

1) to take a public company private.

2) to spin-off a portion of an existing business by selling it.

3) to transfer private property, as is the case with a change in small business ownership.

However, it is usually a requirement that the acquired company or entity, in each scenario, is profitable and growing."

"Leveraged buyouts have had a notorious history, especially in the 1980s, when several prominent buyouts led to the eventual bankruptcy of the acquired companies. This was mainly due to the fact that the leverage ratio was nearly 100% and the interest payments were so large that the company's operating cash flows were unable to meet the obligation."

Why would any lender lend £30m minimum (need money to run the club, two years the EFL ask for?) to a club with nothing going for it? Which is why we've had 'chancers' and people with 'dodgy' money interested. And if money was lent the suggestion is the interest payments would be crippling to us.

Edited May 15, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Foreveram]

3 hours ago, MrPlinkett said:

There is certainly plenty of options. A guy i worked with was a die hard forest fan but he moved to Northwich in Cheshire and started going to watch them and really got into it, it didnt stop him being a forest fan, i dont think it means you are being 'unfaithful' if thats the right word lol.

I am actually considering going to watch Cleethorpes Town when they play around here, if i dont get a season ticket again, they will have a few fixtures that would be reasonably local to us round here, for no other reason than i used to work with their current manager so i look out for their results anyway.

My nephew played for Cleethorpes town, went to Wembley to watch them in the 2017 FA vase final against South Shields with Julio Arca playing for them. If Derby wasn’t playing on the Saturday I would go and watch them home or away with the Clee ultras, proper supporters. ( they really are a thing)

[Spanish]

24 minutes ago, derby8 said:

As I understand it the training ground/academy has always been rented, so put that to one side. Of the '£60m debts' quite a chunk is the 'mortgage' on the stadium. So to buy DC+PP need say £60m to clear debts. New owner stumps up £60m or a lower figure if MM agrees to pay off some of the debt. Suggested above 50/50, so new owner needs £30m to cover debts, pays MM a nominal £1. Either cash or borrows/leverages. As with Burnley a lender who looks at the football/business plan and decides to back it.

A  cash buyer who converts the £30m into shares, foregoes a dividend, looks to capital growth, via football success and financial expertise preferred. 

Leveraged buy-out results in largish repayments/interest eroding revenues, second choice.

but the club don't own PP so why is the mortgage relevant?

[Foreveram]

3 hours ago, derby8 said:

No. £60m debt, I pay off £30m, MM pays off £30m. I pay MM £1 for DC + PP. Value my shares in DC + PP at £30m, no debts. I own 100% of DC + PP. Rent training ground as has always been the case I believe.

I demand you buy us some new players now

[derby8]

2 minutes ago, Spanish said:

but the club don't own PP so why is the mortgage relevant?

Think there are 2 companies, combined debt £60m. PP £17.5m, balance DC £42.5m.

You could buy DC and deal with their debts, rent PP.

Or buy DC + PP deal with combined debts, no PP rent.

As ever over simplified because we don't have full info?

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, derby8 said:

Think there are 2 companies, combined debt £60m. PP £17.5m, balance DC £42.5m.

You could buy DC and deal with their debts, rent PP.

Or buy DC + PP deal with combined debts, no PP rent.

As ever over simplified because we don't have full info?

if you buy DCFC you get the benefit of the due debt for the sale proceeds for PP though

[MrPlinkett]

48 minutes ago, Archied said:

So you demand that mel Morris and Stephen Pearson come out in public and state that the club is in chronic position and apologise to the fans whilst giving the facts and figures to the public domain?

that helps the club how ?

Nothing less than an apology followed by a public flogging will do ?

[MrPlinkett]

25 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

My nephew played for Cleethorpes town, went to Wembley to watch them in the 2017 FA vase final against South Shields with Julio Arca playing for them. If Derby wasn’t playing on the Saturday I would go and watch them home or away with the Clee ultras, proper supporters. ( they really are a thing)

As long as its not a game against non league AFC Derby

[derby8]

39 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/leveragedbuyout.asp

"LBOs are conducted for three main reasons:

1) to take a public company private.

2) to spin-off a portion of an existing business by selling it.

3) to transfer private property, as is the case with a change in small business ownership.

However, it is usually a requirement that the acquired company or entity, in each scenario, is profitable and growing."

"Leveraged buyouts have had a notorious history, especially in the 1980s, when several prominent buyouts led to the eventual bankruptcy of the acquired companies. This was mainly due to the fact that the leverage ratio was nearly 100% and the interest payments were so large that the company's operating cash flows were unable to meet the obligation."

Why would any lender lend £30m minimum (need money to run the club, two years the EFL ask for?) to a club with nothing going for it? Which is why we've had 'chancers' and people with 'dodgy' money interested. And if money was lent the suggestion is the interest payments would be crippling to us.

Look at it this way. DC and PP, 2 separate companies, combined debts maybe £60m. Forward projections suggest further losses.

At one extreme, a rich cash buyer comes in and sorts it.

At the other extreme, both liquidated, assets sold to cover what debts they can.

In between, some sort of deal. MM maybe covers some debts. New owner if not cash rich would have to borrow. This option includes poss going into admin and out again.

Seems to me one of the 3 above have to apply. Unless MM continues as owner and covers losses before long one of them has to come into play. Don't yet believe it's the liquidation one, but something has to give.

Edited May 15, 2021 by derby8

[AutoWindscreens]

46 minutes ago, derby8 said:

As I understand it the training ground/academy has always been rented, so put that to one side. Of the '£60m debts' quite a chunk is the 'mortgage' on the stadium. So to buy DC+PP need say £60m to clear debts. New owner stumps up £60m or a lower figure if MM agrees to pay off some of the debt. Suggested above 50/50, so new owner needs £30m to cover debts, pays MM a nominal £1. Either cash or borrows/leverages. As with Burnley a lender who looks at the football/business plan and decides to back it.

A  cash buyer who converts the £30m into shares, foregoes a dividend, looks to capital growth, via football success and financial expertise preferred. 

Leveraged buy-out results in largish repayments/interest eroding revenues, second choice.

Good contribution: get thee over to the fan owned club thread!

[derby8]

7 minutes ago, Spanish said:

if you buy DCFC you get the benefit of the due debt for the sale proceeds for PP though

Saw something about that I think. Can you explain it to me in laymans language please...