Pro Warne

[sage]

2 minutes ago, Jram said:

Any former anti warners been converted in recent games?

After some shafts of light against limited opposition, this has been the first game where I thought he has maybe turned a corner. 

It's a start. 

[tomsdubs]

The players deciding to start fully trying after a dressing room meltdown isn't necessarily a great look for Warne, why couldnt he motivate the players before? The football isn't amazing but with the strength of our squad and the weakness of the league I view anything other than fighting for the top 2 as underachievement. I still get angry to how poor some of the sides that beat us at home are, shocking we lost some of those games.

[Rammy03]

2 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

The players deciding to start fully trying after a dressing room meltdown isn't necessarily a great look for Warne, why couldnt he motivate the players before? The football isn't amazing but with the strength of our squad and the weakness of the league I view anything other than fighting for the top 2 as underachievement. I still get angry to how poor some of the sides that beat us at home are, shocking we lost some of those games.

Who said there was a dressing room meltdown? I think Hourihane made it pretty clear that the players were trying their best. Just because we lost games to some poor teams doesn't mean the players weren't motivated.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 hours ago, Jram said:

Any former anti warners been converted in recent games?

All aboard the 'Warne in train'. Destination: Championship 

It feels like a big week to me. Warne's decision to play so many youngsters in the cup has helped galvanise everyone - first team, academy, fans. The U18s continued it with a controlled win in the FA Youth Cup. The first team finished the week with what I hope is the defining point of our season. We played very well and beat a top 6 side.

Under Mac in the 13/14 season, it wasn't until Feb when we beat QPR when the club started to believe 'this will be our year' and have the self belief to beat other top 6 sides. This win over Barnsley should have the same effect.

[Tyler Durden]

All along it's never been a binary decision but forum members on here have made it so.

I purposely didn't post anything last night as one win doesn't dictate the entire course of one season in the same manner that one loss doesn't either. 

But after a loss then it would seem that's our season doomed if you listened to some forum members reactions and responses. Or because we're now x points from the top 2 places. 

Anyway it's called balance and the more we see of it on here the more threads like this will start to dissolve away into nothingness.

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

All along it's never been a binary decision but forum members on here have made it so.

I purposely didn't post anything last night as one win doesn't dictate the entire course of one season in the same manner that one loss doesn't either. 

But after a loss then it would seem that's our season doomed if you listened to some forum members reactions and responses. Or because we're now x points from the top 2 places. 

Anyway it's called balance and the more we see of it on here the more threads like this will start to dissolve away into nothingness.

I agree. The results have been good this week. The performances have been better, but we were coming off quite a low base and seeing things sustained is what will endear the management to the public.

There seem to be fewer questionable pressers as well, but maybe that is because of the better results.

The highlights package put up yesterday suggested Barnsley had the better chances up to the penalty, which seemed to be "one of those you've seen given" according to the commentary. Derby had the second half tho....even though the goals were both "route 1"-esque.

[Chester40]

18 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

All along it's never been a binary decision but forum members on here have made it so.

I purposely didn't post anything last night as one win doesn't dictate the entire course of one season in the same manner that one loss doesn't either. 

But after a loss then it would seem that's our season doomed if you listened to some forum members reactions and responses. Or because we're now x points from the top 2 places. 

Anyway it's called balance and the more we see of it on here the more threads like this will start to dissolve away into nothingness.

Agreed. I argued that point a few times.

I was Warne-in, not because I thought he was doing amazingly wel but because he has a track record of getting out of this league.  While we are still in the hunt I prefer to stick, rather than constantly twisting in the hope we can trade our cow for magic beans this time.

The narrative over the poor football was over stated too. That's not to say some performances haven't been poor and we have thrown away a couple of results against teams we should be beating.

But even now 2 more wins and we'd be right up there. The season is long and just starting to unfurl.  A run of 2 or 3 poor games and results and the pressure will be huge again. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Chester40

[Rich84]

7 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

 I still get angry to how poor some of the sides that beat us at home are, shocking we lost some of those games.

So, 2nd placed Oxford and newly relegated Wigan that would be competing with us if they didn't have their points deduction..... really poor teams to lose to!

Reality is, Wigan should never have won that game, 2 bad mistakes by players, which obviously Warne takes the blame for.... which when you look back, most games we haven't won are down to the players poor decisions or finishing,  imagine if we needed Barkhauzen to have scored that 1 v 1 yesterday to get a result and he did that! Clearly it's the managers fault!

I'm not saying Warne gets everything right, I still think we are seriously lacking up front and it should have been addressed in the summer, personally I think the substitutions are too late and not positive enough at times, and I am not a fan of the Hourihane,  Smith, Bird midfield set up, but, pretty much every game we see poor decisions and mistakes by the players, tha same players that the moaners in here say are "too good for this division"...... 

 

[RamLad1884]

A few changes to formation and personnel and it seems to have clicked now. 
 

Bird and Barks coming back to full fitness has made a difference and noticeably we have been much stronger in second halves now that we have a stronger bench. Jury is still out on Warne until we can show some consistency but it’s definitely an improvement.

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

8 hours ago, Jram said:

Any former anti warners been converted in recent games?

Was on the fence Now I`m sitting in Warnes garden 

[rammieib]

Allowing the players to pass it on the deck from the back.

One holding midfielder.

GK isn’t hoofing it.

No longer kicking into channels and then pressing from trapping them.

It’s not rocket science. If you have good footballers, let them play.

This is all he has changed.

[Jourdan]

I think we have to see how we fare in the games v Port Vale, Orient, Wigan and Oxford away before the end of the year. That’s the acid test.

The away form has really stuttered and I think we need to see a response of some kind, even grinding out some hard-fought draws to back up some regulation home wins.

We are building some real momentum at home and you would expect that to continue with potentially another five games at home before the year’s end and all of them looking winnable.

However you can also sense that it wouldn’t take very much for some of the fan base to turn again and there will be a sense of dread heading into each away game with the worry that the scenes from Shrewsbury and Stevenage away will be repeated.

[angieram]

11 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think we have to see how we fare in the games v Port Vale, Orient, Wigan and Oxford away before the end of the year. That’s the acid test.

The away form has really stuttered and I think we need to see a response of some kind, even grinding out some hard-fought draws to back up some regulation home wins.

We are building some real momentum at home and you would expect that to continue with potentially another five games at home before the year’s end and all of them looking winnable.

However you can also sense that it wouldn’t take very much for some of the fan base to turn again and there will be a sense of dread heading into each away game with the worry that the scenes from Shrewsbury and Stevenage away will be repeated.

I think the recent atmosphere at away games has been toxic. There are a group of belligerent fans who come into the ground tanked up and looking for a fight from the off -  with the players, the manager, the more positive Derby fans. 

This is a huge change to the former almost unconditional support away fans were giving the players during administration and beyond.

We've somehow got to combat this. They aren't the majority (far from it) but they are bullies.

I don't expect unwavering adulation, but the atmosphere becomes an almost self-fulfilling prophecy. It makes everyone nervous and every little mistake is magnified, which leads to more nervousness, more mistakes etc. 

Our next away game is at Port Vale, where the atmosphere was brilliant last season and we kept backing the team to the end. Look what happened there! 

The players clearly have belief in what they are doing. Look how they came back at Crewe when most had given up hope. If we can remember that and get behind them a bit more, it could make all the difference. 

[IlsonDerby]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

All along it's never been a binary decision but forum members on here have made it so.

I purposely didn't post anything last night as one win doesn't dictate the entire course of one season in the same manner that one loss doesn't either. 

But after a loss then it would seem that's our season doomed if you listened to some forum members reactions and responses. Or because we're now x points from the top 2 places. 

Anyway it's called balance and the more we see of it on here the more threads like this will start to dissolve away into nothingness.

I never felt like it was ‘one loss’ I think it was a pattern of performances. 
 

He’s just set us up in a way where the team who have scored the most goals in the league had 1 and a half chances of note in the whole game and we could have easily had 6. 2 home games, 7 scored, 0 conceded, 6 points and playing with more purpose. Happier to play out and happier to go through the centre as well as down the flanks. 
 

We set up like we were the favourites. That’s all a lot of people wanted. If we keep taking the game to other teams (as we should in this division) I think he’ll win a lot around. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

The highlights package put up yesterday suggested Barnsley had the better chances up to the penalty, which seemed to be "one of those you've seen given" according to the commentary. Derby had the second half tho....even though the goals were both "route 1"-esque.

Highlights don't tell the full story. Up until the goal, we had more shots (4 vs 3), more dribbles (4 vs 0), more tackles (7 vs 1), more corners (4 vs 2), etc..

However, all 3 of their shots came during a 10 minute spell of questionable decisions against us by the ref, starting with the yellow for Colllins.

[richinspain]

22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Highlights don't tell the full story. Up until the goal, we had more shots (4 vs 3), more dribbles (4 vs 0), more tackles (7 vs 1), more corners (4 vs 2), etc..

However, all 3 of their shots came during a 10 minute spell of questionable decisions against us by the ref, starting with the yellow for Colllins.

Didn't those shots come from either corners or free kicks? I can only remember one chance for them, in the second half, where they got in behind us. Every other effort seemed to be from dead ball situations. I've seen that their manager said that 3-0 was unfair as we scored a penalty and two set pieces, and that we never created anything else. He's more deluded than Mr Deluded from Delusionville! Barks should have scored from at least one of his one on ones with their keeper. Bird stabbed an effort just wide. Sibs hit the crossbar......

[TINMANTED]

as i have said somewhere before,a lot more than rock on was said at clowes tea party.there has been a completely different approach taken since,therefore i am willing to give him time to carry on whilst we are seeing an improvement,but i still feel he is likely to do something stupid and revert back to his default at any time,so certainly not  warne in untill he can convince me he has changed long term with a sustained push for the top

[tomsdubs]

7 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Who said there was a dressing room meltdown? I think Hourihane made it pretty clear that the players were trying their best. Just because we lost games to some poor teams doesn't mean the players weren't motivated.

Warne literally said in the interview there were all having a go at each other and he just let them sort it out.

[tomsdubs]

1 hour ago, Rich84 said:

So, 2nd placed Oxford and newly relegated Wigan that would be competing with us if they didn't have their points deduction..... really poor teams to lose to!

Reality is, Wigan should never have won that game, 2 bad mistakes by players, which obviously Warne takes the blame for.... which when you look back, most games we haven't won are down to the players poor decisions or finishing,  imagine if we needed Barkhauzen to have scored that 1 v 1 yesterday to get a result and he did that! Clearly it's the managers fault!

I'm not saying Warne gets everything right, I still think we are seriously lacking up front and it should have been addressed in the summer, personally I think the substitutions are too late and not positive enough at times, and I am not a fan of the Hourihane,  Smith, Bird midfield set up, but, pretty much every game we see poor decisions and mistakes by the players, tha same players that the moaners in here say are "too good for this division"...... 

 

I don't care where they are in the league mate, I look at their squad and quality of play and we should not be losing to those sides if we play even to 75% of our potential. We had a run of performances that were frankly dire, hopeless football which ended up with Hourihane falling out with the fans and just saying "we're playing to orders". This isn't evidence in Warne's favour is it?

Look he might get a run going and i'll give him some credit if he finally gets some better team selections going. But I caveat that with the fact to me it looks like the players have had stern words among themselves rather than Warne did something magic that made them switch on and give their all for 90 mins.

Like you say with the subs I think Warne puts himself in bad positions because he never seems to know his best 11 (although he's getting more consistent now), spends too much time concerned about opponents in a low quality league. Recruitment is a big one for me in a weak L1 season if we had just invested a little we'd surely be cruising this league. The players we talked about in the summer are having great seasons as well e.g Rodrigues at Oxford.

On the poor decisions by players, do you not feel like this is more a coaching/cohesion issue? Many times you wonder when watching Warne's side what the actual plan is. I was at Crewe and we were all behind goal second half wondering who in the hell all the crosses were for as Washington could play 24 hours and still never win a header. This season just feels like a fumble to me, we should be relishing the challenge, should have just spent a million on a few good playuers and prospects. Another year down here will have negative impacts on the club in all areas IMO.

[Cisse]

I hope Warne can get in a couple of new players of his liking when the transfer window opens. After that we could go a long way forward.