The Administration Thread

[Phoenix]

1 hour ago, ramboy63 said:

Would be funny to see for sure

Although might be an idea to send the teams coach driver a Tom Tom sat nav in the post as he might not be able to find Wembley stadium as its been a while

What's Andre Wisdom doing at the moment? Has he got a licence to drive a coach.? That would be fun.

 

[kevinhectoring]

59 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why? The rules are clear, finish top 2 you're up. Finish below that and it's all to play for!

Tho the efl does seem quite adept, when it comes to rule changes 

[Macintosh]

11 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I think some of the criticism of Quantuma has been unfair.  Yes, they could have managed their comms better and expectations around timescale.  Gerald Krasner said this was a complex case and now CK’s legal team are saying the same.  If we complete at the end of May it’ll be just over 8 months.  That’s the average timescale and this is far from an average case.

Why, though, was Kirchner's bid in November ever rejected, £61m that included Pride Park, later to be underbid by the Binnies, Appleby and Ashley at £28m minus Pride Park? And this raged on for a further four months. Kirchner's parting statement in December was: "Only getting worse as player contracts expire, club becomes much less valuable without the proper moves in January." Adding, "he had 'very little engagement with Quantuma'."

Then we had the Boro debacle to add, a further £4m loan from Dell, many players gone, no contracts able to be signed, and, ultimately, relegation because we could not add to the squad. Other than that, I agree, a great job by Quantuma – £3.8m costs and rising.

Comms could have been better, sure they could, at £650 an hour for just one member of staff to say hi.

No thanks, I hope no other club ever have them as administrators.

[kevinhectoring]

18 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

Why, though, was Kirchner's bid in November ever rejected, £61m that included Pride Park, later to be underbid by the Binnies, Appleby and Ashley at £28m minus Pride Park? And this raged on for a further four months. Kirchner's parting statement in December was: "Only getting worse as player contracts expire, club becomes much less valuable without the proper moves in January." Adding, "he had 'very little engagement with Quantuma'."

Then we had the Boro debacle to add, a further £4m loan from Dell, many players gone, no contracts able to be signed, and, ultimately, relegation because we could not add to the squad. Other than that, I agree, a great job by Quantuma – £3.8m costs and rising.

Comms could have been better, sure they could, at £650 an hour for just one member of staff to say hi.

No thanks, I hope no other club ever have them as administrators.

There is a very interesting post above on this topic by @duncanjwithamoutlining the lack of enthusiasm most firms have for football appointments. Relevant also to the EFL’s recent proposals ( partly triggered by their experience with Q?) to have a panel of approved firms

Edited May 19, 2022 by kevinhectoring

[Ramos]

4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Not sure the "right way" is having an owner who owns another club, so you can transfer players easily between the two to get round spending rules. Seems at least as dodgy than modifying you amortisation methodology. 

It seems even more dodgy when your owner has been involved in multiple criminal controversies. Morris has rightly been in the spotlight with us going into admin. But their crook of an owner is ignored then they are doing well?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelos_Marinakis

Football ignores everything when you’re doing well. Derby are cheats for breaking FFP and staying down… Leicester, Villa, Bournemouth etc have all been model clubs in the past yet all broke FFP - and have reaped the rewards of ‘cheating’. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Ramos said:

Football ignores everything when you’re doing well. Derby are cheats for breaking FFP and staying down… Leicester, Villa, Bournemouth etc have all been model clubs in the past yet all broke FFP - and have reaped the rewards of ‘cheating’. 

Absolutely. Our real crime was failure.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

23 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

There is a very interesting post above on this topic by @duncanjwithamoutlining the lack of enthusiasm most firms have for football appointments. Relevant also to the EFL’s recent proposals ( partly triggered by their experience with Q?) to have a panel of approved firms

I don't trust the EFL to pick their 'approved firms' because they are the right firms for football league clubs. I truly believe that the EFL will pick the firms most willing to go along with the EFL in all things and that will simply result in these firms acting in the best interests of the EFL and not whichever club happens to be in administration at the time. One more way in which the EFL will inevitably attempt to skirt around any independent regulation that might be on the horizon.

[PistoldPete]

12 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I don't trust the EFL to pick their 'approved firms' because they are the right firms for football league clubs. I truly believe that the EFL will pick the firms most willing to go along with the EFL in all things and that will simply result in these firms acting in the best interests of the EFL and not whichever club happens to be in administration at the time. One more way in which the EFL will inevitably attempt to skirt around any independent regulation that might be on the horizon.

It’s a ridiculous proposal by EFL. Insolvency practitioners are appointed by The Court. They are independent professionals . Too independent for EFL who want to control what they do. Outrageous. 

[nogbad van 50]

58 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

Why, though, was Kirchner's bid in November ever rejected, £61m that included Pride Park, later to be underbid by the Binnies, Appleby and Ashley at £28m minus Pride Park? And this raged on for a further four months. Kirchner's parting statement in December was: "Only getting worse as player contracts expire, club becomes much less valuable without the proper moves in January." Adding, "he had 'very little engagement with Quantuma'."

Then we had the Boro debacle to add, a further £4m loan from Dell, many players gone, no contracts able to be signed, and, ultimately, relegation because we could not add to the squad. Other than that, I agree, a great job by Quantuma – £3.8m costs and rising.

Comms could have been better, sure they could, at £650 an hour for just one member of staff to say hi.

No thanks, I hope no other club ever have them as administrators.

Can’t see Mel Morris running another club so it’ll be ok!

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Rules can be changed...

I'd quite like to see something like 6th plays 5th, winner of that plays 4th, and the winner of that plays 3rd at Wembley.  Basically the further down the table you finish, the more games you need to win to go up.  The only downside would be the 3rd place team potentially having a big gap between finishing the league and playing the final game, which doesn't always help.

The playoffs came about as an end of season money spinner for Division 2 clubs and to allow those who finished third and fourth bottom to have a chance of staying up .  No doubt those finishing 3rd from bottom would love to play a championship team for the chance to stay up but the team finishing 3rd in the championship nowadays- not so keen .  The team finishing 3rd should go up, as the money spinner nowadays is clearly massively in favour of auto promotion rather than 2-3 million cash from an end of season lottery. that's always been my own opinion to be honest.  

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

For me the only real reason to give Q a kicking is that they were lauded as "football club insolvency specialists" when they were appointed, so to my mind they should have been far more aware of the mess and the challenges ahead quite early in the process - rather than claiming in October that we'd be out of admin by Christmas, and then continually communicating overly optimistic messages (remember "you will be pleasantly surprised at how quickly things will progress now"?) about conclusion. Their credibility in the industry must be shot

Perhaps Stive, and I agree that they will have learnt some lessons regarding how to communicate better (and more realistically) as a result of this case. What we don’t know for sure is what has gone on throughout this process, and how much Morris and the EFL stymied their delivery timetable.

I doubt their credibility is affected. It’s like you claiming a couple of years back that a 100 Chinese students in Derby were being abused for simply wearing masks. We all had a good laugh at you at the time, but as time has gone on a great many still recognise you as a steady and reliable poster (albeit with a strong political bias).

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

5 hours ago, KBB said:

100%

I have never lived in Derby or Nottingham and don't know any forest fans at all. I don't have all the "banter" on a daily basis or the dislike thst many of our fan base have.

They do deserve their day at Wembley. They have had a superb season. One to be proud of. Have probably the best young player in the league, some very good loan signings and a manager who I think will go to the top-level.

Does it pain me to say that? No, because I think even the most one eyed of us have to reluctantly say its true.

The league table does not lie.

Forest are on the cusp of the "dream" we chased in the wrong way and are now paying the price for. Will they do it? I think they might.

They have overall losses of 202 million pounds over recent years and a wage bill of 38 million quid recently, so I'd argue they've chased it pretty hard.

[Oldben]

https://www.footballtransfertavern.com/derby-county-news/derby-county-rams-takeover-deduction-kirchner-news-updates/

to not have the 15 point deduction for next season, will be awesome and if we don't have that plus 3 points ... awesome.

I think 18 points could easily relegate derby from league one.

A big thanks to ck for preventing that from happening.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Macintosh said:

Why, though, was Kirchner's bid in November ever rejected, £61m that included Pride Park, later to be underbid by the Binnies, Appleby and Ashley at £28m minus Pride Park? And this raged on for a further four months. Kirchner's parting statement in December was: "Only getting worse as player contracts expire, club becomes much less valuable without the proper moves in January." Adding, "he had 'very little engagement with Quantuma'."

Then we had the Boro debacle to add, a further £4m loan from Dell, many players gone, no contracts able to be signed, and, ultimately, relegation because we could not add to the squad. Other than that, I agree, a great job by Quantuma – £3.8m costs and rising.

Comms could have been better, sure they could, at £650 an hour for just one member of staff to say hi.

No thanks, I hope no other club ever have them as administrators.

 

You have no more an idea of the detailed structure of Kirchner's bid than anyone else. Just because it "included Pride Park" doesn't give it any weight over the other bids - the amount required for the stadium is set by Mel Morris. If that specific part of bid fell under a certain amount it couldn't be chosen as the best bid.

Nevertheless it wasn't 'rejected' - it apparently fell short of other bids for one reason or another, but rather than stay at the negotiation table Kirchner pulled out and started looking at other clubs. His choice entirely.

You shouldn't just believe every statement put out by people interested in buying the club put out, it's in their best interests to make it sound like they're fighting for pole position and their offer was better than anyone else's.  Note that Preston weren't entirely happy with the way things concluded between them, they tell one side of the story, he tells the other. Who's right? Who knows.

Kirchner has come back and is now the PB, if he had any serious issues with the administrators (rather then letting off some steam) surely he wouldn't have re-entered the process?

The Boro Debacle has nothing whatsoever to do with Quantuma, It would always have played out into February with their perfectly legal method of dismissing the claims rejected by EFL. The only other option was caving in and agreeing to pay Gibson out of the creditors' pot.

Do you know what the going rate for an administrator is, or how much work is involved in trying to sell a club in the state Derby were/are in? (Disclaimer: I don't!). Any evidence they're raking it in at a level above industry standard for a case this complex?

Maybe rather than being butt-hurt by the amount of money they earn from this job you should go and train up to do something similar yourself?

Edited May 19, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[roboto]

[BucksRam]

It's been really easy to blame Q for many things, and to be fair, they could be guilty of some of them, but I found it interesting that, Squire Patton Boggs, {great name btw} the law firm representing CK on this, who it appears have vast experience in football dealing, have come out and said that the deal for Derby has been the most complex in their history.

“We are delighted to have supported Chris Kirchner in a deal that will hopefully secure the future of Derby County Football Club," he said. "This is the most complex, high-stakes football transaction that we have advised on, with the separation of the ownership of Pride Park from the club one of a number of issues to navigate in structuring the deal....."

[RYRAM]

3 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

More like cheated way there

How did they cheat? 

Just got a good manager at this level and got the best out of his players 

[May Contain Nuts]

Don't get me wrong it irks me that people get paid so much money capitalising on the mismanagement & misfortune of others, but it's not up to me to decide who gets paid what. It's the same for any high paying job.

We could sit here all day complaining about the eye watering wages paid paid to footballers for a bit of training and playing 90 minutes of football twice a week, but to what end? Someone's agreed to pay it.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[ColonelBlimp]

I kind of agree with @KBB to some extent.

Whilst I do live in Derby, it took me 50 years to get here and I'm not from the area so haven't developed the local hatred ( is that too strong?)

The only team I have any real dislike for is Leicester and that's because of the play-off final, their Admin shenanigans and the sickly media love-in they had.

I would have preferred Luton to go up as I went to school there for 4 years, or Huddersfield because of great Aunt Minnie who's funeral I attended.

Dad was a Wednesday fan so not Sheff Utd either.

Huddersfield it is then ?

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

If HMRC are prepared to sacrifice 65% of the bill to keep Derby alive, as a taxpayer I’m prepared to sacrifice 100% of it to make sure they die, to discourage others. What an alarming precedent.

Well Luke from Bristol, can I Also suggest that the higher rate of tax that the exchequer has missed out on from PAYE would not have stayed there.  Lots of loopholes on a tax return to offset .  Maybe Bristol City should die alongside sport to stop this happening.  Perhaps you should also destroy your TV and stop channels broadcasting with all those pesky buggers getting determined taxation instead of sending in tax returns.  billions overpaid on tax credits a few years ago when it started and written off.  Hunt then down and shoot them.  All those directors taking loans from their own business then going bust next for the chop.  All that s*** you buy online from business not playing the game - stop them trading.  Any business suffering and getting the benefit of not paying some tax they owe, close em down and get a 1000 staff on JSA.  Finally, stop Lukes upcoming bank holiday, it won't be needed when we get rid of the monarchy and seize Charles duchies that he pays ridiculous level of tax on.  

One dimensional bitter nobber ?