Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[GenBr]

56 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

A lot of Newcastle fans will remember the 90s when they were a top side. It’s all relative. They’re a big club (fan base) Finishing mid table to bottom of prem most years won’t be that fulfilling. 
Even clubs like Burnley are just there not doing much, it’s going to get boring. If Derby has gone up in 2014 and constantly finished between mid table and the bottom, a lot of fans would end up a bit disillusioned after a few years. Derby fans have probably had more fun watching playoff campaigns than Newcastle fans (apart from their title win) within the last decade. 

If spending the majority of the last 14 years comfortably in the premier league is tough times I would hate to see how the Geordies cope when something actually bad happens to their club. That isn't tough at all - sorry, but it just isn't. At best its a mild irritation that they can't compete with some of the biggest teams in the entire world at the top end of the Premier League, but virtually nobody can. Its an absolute joke that Newcastle fans think they have actually had a difficult time of it for the past couple of decades. They haven't had tough times under Ashley at all.

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 minute ago, GenBr said:

If spending the majority of the last 14 years comfortably in the premier league is tough times I would hate to see how the Geordies cope when something actually bad happens to their club. That isn't tough at all - sorry, but it just isn't. At best its a mild irritation that they can't compete with some of the biggest teams in the entire world at the top end of the Premier League, but virtually nobody can. Its an absolute joke that Newcastle fans think they have actually had a difficult time of it for the past couple of decades. They haven't had tough times under Ashley at all.

 

It’s tough times because it’s stagnant, boring etc As I said, a lot of Newcastle fans will have memories of when they were a top team. Tough times is all subjective. What’s tough for one team would be huge success for another but I stand by the thought that no progress in such a long time and finishing lower in the league would end up boring. Surely Burnley fans can’t be that pleased right now even though they were a third tier team not too long ago. Derby fans would say the same if they had been promoted a long time ago and constantly finished low down- for example the relegation battles of early 2000s compared to the top half finishes at the end of the 1990s. 
Newcastle haven’t had the worst time and a lot of clubs are worse off but it’s probably boring being a Newcastle fan in recent years because they have traditionally been a major club in English football at various points and they’ve not done much and had relegation too. 

[May Contain Nuts]

What's clear is they've got a very different idea of what a relegation fight is to me.

Looking over their shoulders whilst hovering above the relegation before going on a late run to make themselves comfortable (even if it's through one player's excellent form) isn't really a relegation struggle/ sure they may be part of the conversation and  may be doing some sums - but it's being painted as barely surviving as if they regularly spend 8/10 of their final matches of the season a couple of points adrift before being pulled from the mire. That's a relegation fight 

If nothing else they're the most melodramatic of the PL clubs. What I can't quite believe is how some Derby fans appear to have been suckered in by their tales of woe.

 

[Eddie]

One person's avoiding relegation by a couple of losses is another person's missing out on Europe by a couple of wins.

[Leeds Ram]

22 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

It’s tough times because it’s stagnant, boring etc As I said, a lot of Newcastle fans will have memories of when they were a top team. Tough times is all subjective. What’s tough for one team would be huge success for another but I stand by the thought that no progress in such a long time and finishing lower in the league would end up boring. Surely Burnley fans can’t be that pleased right now even though they were a third tier team not too long ago. Derby fans would say the same if they had been promoted a long time ago and constantly finished low down- for example the relegation battles of early 2000s compared to the top half finishes at the end of the 1990s. 
Newcastle haven’t had the worst time and a lot of clubs are worse off but it’s probably boring being a Newcastle fan in recent years because they have traditionally been a major club in English football at various points and they’ve not done much and had relegation too. 

If by traditionally been a major club you mean they had a good run in the 90's then fair enough but that's all they've had. Now, they're exactly where they have been for pretty much the entirety of the last 50 years. Between 1966-2006 they had 11 top 10 finishes with all but 3 coming in the 1993-2006  era. That's not a sign they're a big club competing at the top historically and have recently fallen off their perch but rather they had a good run for a decade like a lot of teams but that it was out of the norm historically for them. 

If Derby managed to finish mid-table in the prem each year, spend 125 million net in 5 years and have the odd run at Europe we'd mostly be very happy with that. I doubt any of us would be wallowing in misery demanding the chairman out and pretending somehow we're the most hard done club in the entire football league shouting at others that 'you haven't had to experience it' like it's some kind of torture. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Leeds Ram

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

17 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

If by traditionally been a major club you mean they had a good run in the 90's then fair enough but that's all they've had. Now, they're exactly where they have been for pretty much the entirety of the last 50 years. Between 1966-2006 they had 11 top 10 finishes with all but 3 coming in the 1993-2006  era. That's not a sign they're a big club competing at the top historically and have recently fallen off their perch but rather they had a good run for a decade like a lot of teams but that it was out of the norm historically for them. 

If Derby managed to finish mid-table in the prem each year, spend 125 million net in 5 years and have the odd run at Europe we'd mostly be very happy with that. I doubt any of us would be wallowing in misery demanding the chairman out and pretending somehow we're the most hard done club in the entire football league shouting at others that 'you haven't had to experience it' like it's some kind of torture. 

Big fan base so big club. And a top team throughout the 90s but that’s not the main point of what I’m saying.. any team constantly finishing lower down in a league is not really progressing so it’s not a surprise their fans have been disappointed. Plenty of other fanbases of other teams in prem will also be disappointed with how their teams are doing but I’m sure we would happily swap positions with them. All subjective. Their team has also done nothing in the cups in recent years.  Same as Derby. 

[Yani P]

I think most Burnley fans will be ecstatic with how they have performed over the past few seasons..

[Rampage]

2 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Whether you like Ashley or not, want him or don't, isn't it nice to have credible people with actual money linked to buying the club.

I don't expect Ashley will buy Derby, but it is good to have positive stories. Remember, Mel was all to willing to sell to Erik Alonso.

The names being linked to Derby today, not popular figures with their old clubs some of them, but they do have the finance.

Ashley has the money in his pocket and could probably buy it tomorrow if he wants it. If he wants it, I cannot see anyone beating him to it. He is entirely focussed to get administration bargains. I would welcome him. We would not go into administration with Ashley. More likely that he would make a few quid out of us when somebody offers big good money for us.

[Rampage]

2 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

Just musing on the figures being bandied about, especially the 'soft debt' to Mel. I've read that the club owes Mel £100m, but he doesn't want it back.

On the face of it, it seems a nice gesture  but is it going to cause some huge issues?

I know the unsecured creditors have to agree a percentage to allow the club to undertake a CVA and emerge from administration. I believe that each creditor gets a vote that is the same weighting as the debt owed - so if you are owed 10% of the debt, your vote is worth 10%. 75% of the creditors need to agree for it to proceed. Surely Mel accounts for at least 75% of the debt so he's effectively the one agreeing the CVA?

Further, if the unsecured creditors don't get at least 25%, I believe that we get a points deduction for next season - 15 points maybe? Does that mean if we don't give Mel at least £25m, we get penalised, even if he agrees to take nothing.

Finally, to run up a £100m debt, Mel must have been putting money in in loans for the last few years, rather than equity. Unless he's been putting in cash as well (and if he has, how has the club lost so much?), it reduces the P&S allowable loss to £8m per season. Does that mean we're absolutely bound to fail the next two or three rounds of P&S and going to be losing points for several seasons?

 

I have a feeling that when the dust settles, Mel will be seen to have done the best for the Rams that he could have done and found to have been let down by some people. We will see.

[KBB]

Whoever takes the club over had better be prepared for demands to splash the cash on new signings in January.

Don't think that will happen? As utterly mindless as it sounds from the journey we took to admin there will always be an element who will expect, almost demand, significant signings every transfer window.

Mike Ashley or whoever will really have to send a clear message to an element of our support. The days of chucking money are long long gone. Think we will see the Butterfield and johnson double deal days again? Not a chance in hell.

[i-Ram]

Nothing to see here. Posting rubbish (yeah again).

.

Edited October 10, 2021 by i-Ram

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

58 minutes ago, Yani P said:

I think most Burnley fans will be ecstatic with how they have performed over the past few seasons..

17th last season and currently down there again, ecstatic seems a bit strong.

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

17th last season and currently down there again, ecstatic seems a bit strong.

And little chance of immediate improvement in the team until the big loans that were taken out to fund the previous owners Euromillions jackpots are repaid..... ?

[europia]

2 hours ago, KBB said:

Think we will see the Butterfield and johnson double deal days again? Not a chance in hell.

 I might just about be able to live with that....

Edited October 10, 2021 by europia

[Leeds Ram]

3 hours ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Big fan base so big club. And a top team throughout the 90s but that’s not the main point of what I’m saying.. any team constantly finishing lower down in a league is not really progressing so it’s not a surprise their fans have been disappointed. Plenty of other fanbases of other teams in prem will also be disappointed with how their teams are doing but I’m sure we would happily swap positions with them. All subjective. Their team has also done nothing in the cups in recent years.  Same as Derby. 

I don't think newcastle are as big as they think they are but am sure the same could be said for most teams. In the premier league it's a bit of a different ball game now with regards to league position. They've fluctuated and tend to be a mid-table team which is traditionally their place in the pyramid which doesn't justify the outcry from the fans. They've had a higher net spend than leicester over the past 5 years so it's not like Ashley has denied them any funds at all, it's just he's not willing to break the bank. 

[kevinhectoring]

4 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

Does that mean if we don't give Mel at least £25m, we get penalised, even if he agrees to take nothing.

No. If he waives the debt, it doesn’t count. 
 

You raise another question - whether he can vote in a CVA then waive his debt. Given that his intention to waive the debt is already well known, I think that’s a recipe for a lawsuit. Maybe Cocu is the guy who carries the CVA ? 

[ariotofmyown]

Beggars can't be choosers, arise Sir Mike of Ashley.

Would be pretty funny if he invested massively though and took us to glory, even just so he could annoy the Newcastle Fans! 

They were dancing in the streets, even though their new owner had a journalist killed. Guess that's easy to ignore when you've had a few bottom half Premier League finishes.

I'm not saying Ashley was great for them, but there surely must be a line? What if your owner was, say, killing loads of innocents in a neighbouring country? Call it Yemen.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

2 hours ago, Rampage said:

I have a feeling that when the dust settles, Mel will be seen to have done the best for the Rams that he could have done and found to have been let down by some people. We will see.

It's the hope I've had.

I've slated Mel, especially when admin was announced, but I honestly think he had run out of options.

The EFL were strangling him, they were making sure buyers were put off at every stage and again, Mel was running out of options.

He knew a buyer was very keen, they wanted it cheaper, the EFL were going to impose penalties anyway so Mel thought to hell with it, let's go admin!

To this day the EFL still haven't provided any update to additional points deductions, the absolute cretins.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

19 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I don't think newcastle are as big as they think they are but am sure the same could be said for most teams. In the premier league it's a bit of a different ball game now with regards to league position. They've fluctuated and tend to be a mid-table team which is traditionally their place in the pyramid which doesn't justify the outcry from the fans. They've had a higher net spend than leicester over the past 5 years so it's not like Ashley has denied them any funds at all, it's just he's not willing to break the bank. 

They get huge crowds. Very big support. Fans of any club will moan if their club isn't doing well or at least not progressing. Leicester fans were moaning finishing mid table under Puel. West Ham fans were unhappy with Pellegrini, list is endless. 

Any football fan growing up in the 90s will know Newcastle was a major force with a huge fanbase. 

 

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

They get huge crowds. Very big support. Fans of any club will moan if their club isn't doing well or at least not progressing. Leicester fans were moaning finishing mid table under Puel. West Ham fans were unhappy with Pellegrini, list is endless. 

Any football fan growing up in the 90s will know Newcastle was a major force with a huge fanbase. 

 

Again look back beyond the last 20 years with the crowds and the story becomes more complex. They may have big support but the fact remains Newcastle are not a historically successful club, they had a brief run when they were in the top 4/5 teams in the country but like most regional clubs it didn't last and they didn't win anything.

I don't deny leicester or west ham fans were moaning but not to the extent that newcastle fans have been going on and that is still largely entitled nonsense from both those fan bases for my money.