Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Other clubs are irrelevant as they have nothing to appeal. All Derby have to prove is that without Covid lockdown etc, they would’ve avoided administration. 

How can they give a 100% guarantee that the club would have avoided lockdown, the outcome will depend on how the club was run prior to that. That is why they have demanded the accounts for the last 6 years.

[NottsRammy]

2 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

If you ask me i think the efl and the administrators have already done a deal . Where going to get 6 points knocked off the admin penalty Buttttttttttt only if Derby accept a possible 9 points from the accounting mess up . So a total of -15 or maybe if we are ultra lucky -6 for them both . Which would tie into rooneys -12 we have a chance of getting out idea . 

I honestly think the efl do not want to see a club the size of Derby in a lower division even if the prat Steve Gibson does . 

Watch this space because i think all the deals have already been done on the penalty side of things , its just who is taking us over . 

Quoting my own words here . 

Think about this !! ??

Why would you sack 20 people saving on wages then spend 300k on the possible outcome of a negative appeal on the -12 . 

You wouldnt would you .

There is alot going off behind closed doors . Believe me we will win the appeal and it will be either 0 points deducted or -6 . But its going to come at a cost of accepting the 2nd one so we cant appeal it . There is a possibility we could just end up with -9  or get 2 x -6  . Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

[I know nuffin]

5 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Quoting my own words here . 

Think about this !! ??

Why would you sack 20 people saving on wages then spend 300k on the possible outcome of a negative appeal on the -12 . 

You wouldnt would you .

There is alot going off behind closed doors . Believe me we will win the appeal and it will be either 0 points deducted or -6 . But its going to come at a cost of accepting the 2nd one so we cant appeal it . There is a possibility we could just end up with -9  or get 2 x -6  . Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

Some of the press are saying 15 points deduction so I have to agree with you something us going on / has gone on behind those doors and it will be a shock if it is not 15 because the EFL appear to like to tell the press long before any announcement and the fans don't matter. 

[PistoldPete]

31 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

How can they give a 100% guarantee that the club would have avoided lockdown, the outcome will depend on how the club was run prior to that. That is why they have demanded the accounts for the last 6 years.

No the test is what happened after lockdown, not before. 
 

why Efl ask for six years accounts nobody knows but they have had accounts since 2015/16 anyway. They are just muck taking as usual 

[BucksRam]

13 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

Edited October 11, 2021 by BucksRam

[Ramos]

19 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Quoting my own words here . 

Think about this !! ??

Why would you sack 20 people saving on wages then spend 300k on the possible outcome of a negative appeal on the -12 . 

You wouldnt would you .

There is alot going off behind closed doors . Believe me we will win the appeal and it will be either 0 points deducted or -6 . But its going to come at a cost of accepting the 2nd one so we cant appeal it . There is a possibility we could just end up with -9  or get 2 x -6  . Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

Wait what if I believe that - but believe Diana’s crash was an accident? WHERE DO I FIT INTO ALL THIS. 

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Oldben said:

If the efl gave into this, wouldn't it set precedent which is something I doubt th efl are keen to do.

It’s not up to Efl though is it? It should be an independent panel to decide.

[atherstoneram]

16 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

No the test is what happened after lockdown, not before. 
 

why Efl ask for six years accounts nobody knows but they have had accounts since 2015/16 anyway. They are just muck taking as usual 

 The test will include what happened leading up to lockdown, we don't know what the clubs finances were like or what MM was putting in on a monthly basis to cover bills.That will have a significant bearing on proceedings. We broke the rules because the players didn't get paid,as someone alluded to the contract was signed and sealed and MM assumed money would be transferred into the club to pay the wages. As a businessman you don't assume anything,assumption counts for nothing.If money was to be transferred in then you get that in black and white. If MM had that proof he could then have presented that to the EFL which would have put MM in the clear,assuming it was going to be transferred is no defence. There was nothing to stop MM paying the wages then taking the money back when funds were transferred.

Edited October 11, 2021 by atherstoneram
additional info.

[Indy]

10 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

No the test is what happened after lockdown, not before. 
 

why Efl ask for six years accounts nobody knows but they have had accounts since 2015/16 anyway. They are just muck taking as usual 

I think the EFL have asked for a long history of accounts to see how much of our cash flow was made up of gate receipts. Our argument is that DCFC was most affected as we took the biggest percentage hit to operating revenue when we lost that money. Other clubs with big gates either got promoted or had parachute payments. If we compare to other clubs and removing gate receipts knocks 30% of our revenue, but other clubs (with parachute payments or league one structure having just been promoted) only lose 10%, then it’s clear that that would be harder for us to work around. 
 

You could argue we had loans etc meaning we had little room for manoeuvre, but if we took those loans with the reasonable expectation of an extra £20m each year to service them, then it’s hardly reckless. 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

How can they give a 100% guarantee that the club would have avoided lockdown, the outcome will depend on how the club was run prior to that. That is why they have demanded the accounts for the last 6 years.

To judge whether or not, Covid19 was the sole cause of us entering administration, they will have to consider the accounts from 2018, which are still not filed right through to the time the club was placed into administration. So that includes the periods both before and after lockdown.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

14 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

It’s not up to Efl though is it? It should be an independent panel to decide.

It should.  The 9 point deduction were probably getting suggests otherwise The EFL, or Gibsons Gimp Inc. to give it the proper title, seem to be able to appeal what they like.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

It should.  The 9 point deduction were probably getting suggests otherwise The EFL, or Gibsons Gimp Inc. to give it the proper title, seem to be able to appeal what they like.

Now the appeal has been lodged it will be an independent panel. The 12 point penalty stands until the panel makes its decision.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

Cant speak for anyone else however…..  

Now the Administrators have decided to appeal the -12points inflicted on DCFC, I feel quite confident that they’ve had the time to go through our accounts and decided in their Professional opinion that (due to COVID and our previous accounts and income in the seasons prior to COVID) we have a strong enough case to call “Force Majure” on our administration.

Why else would they take this course of action if there was little/no chance of success.  

These people are accountants after all and they won’t have taken this course of action unless they felt we had a very strong argument. 

[DCFC Kicks]

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

Quoting my own words here . 

Think about this !! ??

Why would you sack 20 people saving on wages then spend 300k on the possible outcome of a negative appeal on the -12 . 

You wouldnt would you .

There is alot going off behind closed doors . Believe me we will win the appeal and it will be either 0 points deducted or -6 . But its going to come at a cost of accepting the 2nd one so we cant appeal it . There is a possibility we could just end up with -9  or get 2 x -6  . Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

Have they spent £300k? Are they going to? Doubt it. I think they have whacked in notice of appeal as part of the overall negotiations with EFl 

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

Quoting my own words here . 

Think about this !! ??

Why would you sack 20 people saving on wages then spend 300k on the possible outcome of a negative appeal on the -12 . 

You wouldnt would you .

There is alot going off behind closed doors . Believe me we will win the appeal and it will be either 0 points deducted or -6 . But its going to come at a cost of accepting the 2nd one so we cant appeal it . There is a possibility we could just end up with -9  or get 2 x -6  . Somethings cooking behind the scenes as you dont spend 300k without knowing the result having sacked around 20 jobs . If you dont believe this then your probably in the same group as who believe Diana Spencer was accidently killed in that car crash .........wakey wakey people . 

What about the moon landing and twin towers which side of the fence should we sit with these? 

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

To judge whether or not, Covid19 was the sole cause of us entering administration, they will have to consider the accounts from 2018, which are still not filed right through to the time the club was placed into administration. So that includes the periods both before and after lockdown.

You just know how this is going to end. The EFL will accept our appeal and reduce the penalty for administration to 6 points. Whilst considering it, they will notice that the figures show we've failed P&S by £15m and they'll hit us with a 21 point penalty. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

You just know how this is going to end. The EFL will accept our appeal and reduce the penalty for administration to 6 points. Whilst considering it, they will notice that the figures show we've failed P&S by £15m and they'll hit us with a 21 point penalty. 

I think that is a highly possible outcome. Even if we overturn all 12, I fear there will be additional penalties when the club has shown its full hand. It won't though be the fault of the EFL if that happens.

[Hordh]

6 hours ago, Oldben said:

If the efl gave into this, wouldn't it set precedent which is something I doubt th efl are keen to do.

MM took the club to the point that when Covid hit there was no breathing room left. That's why he couldn't get the £8m loan. If the club are successful then it does set a very dangerous precedent.

[PistoldPete]

6 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

All clubs suffered losses during the Covid period that wasn't just particular to Derby but no other club has gone into administration. It is going to be hard to prove that Covid was the cause when other clubs have survived. It needs to be proved as the cause not as a factor.

Wrong again, it is a common misunderstanding about the legal issue of "causation. It is the other things (eg Derby's historic overspending) that are "factors"... COVID was the cause of Derby 's administration.. unless there was something else that could have prevented us from going into admin... eg selling a player for £26 million to pay the tax bill.