Paul Warne

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if our financial situation is actually much more similar to that Rotherham side's than we might want to admit...

I agree with the notion that it's unfair to compare because, at the end of the day, they're totally different squads in very different looking divisions. But if you're looking for an indicator of his quality in the Championship then it's about all you've got to go on isn't it?

When he left Rotherham for us, I'm pretty sure they were in the top 6 or something, so maybe he's going to take us straight up anyway!

I've read all the posts on here about how he had Rotherham climbing the heights of the Championship in 22/23 well here are their results, he left them 22/09/22. I've never looked for the stats before.

[On the Ram Page]

11 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Think back to last season when Paul insisted on 3/5 at the back which didn't work, and we limped from one poor result to another for a while. But then injuries meant that we had to go to 4 at the back, and then went on the good run for several matches. But as soon he could, we reverted to 3 at the back, and the run ended. 

We have had similar this season, and as you intimate a certain group of matches acted as a watershed, with some sections, especially at away matches, turning against the manager. But this was  followed a change in style, with crosses into the box being lower down, even at foot or knee level at times, and a degree of playing though the midfield, and yet again we went on a run of good results. This was aided by the arrival of Ebou Adams, which enabled us to go to Warne's preferred wing-back system. But once again we started reverting back to by-passing the midfield, noticeably against Northampton and Wycombe, and once again our results faltered. Especially when it became clear that teams had sussed that if they double up on our wide men, we have no answer, because to us midfield didn't exist. These were points thrown away. We could argue that maybe even if we did play through the middle we may have had the same results, because football is full of imponderables and opinions, but after finding that 3 in midfield benefits the team, I am baffled why we moved away from it again. 

I understand the concept of adapting to counter or exploit the opposition's strengths and weaknesses, the Leyton Orient game being a good example, but several times the "adapting" has been inexplicable. Cheltenham away, where they had been outplayed in midfield all season, let goals in for fun and were metaphorically stood in front of a barn door with a banjo in their hand, and no idea what it was for, but we decided to vacate midfield. They were there for the taking, but instead of imposing ourselves on them we retreated into our shell. There are a number of matches like this one which were crying out for us to impose ourselves, but which we let slip through our fingers, and represent points which would have made a huge difference. We really could have been secure in second place, and we really could have had an eye on top place. 

But in these last few matches I have been happy for us to grab points however we can to make sure - I am not confident of us surviving the play-offs successfully - and am also happy for Paul to do his stuff next season, although I hope he doesn't pull another "Cambridge second half" on Saturday. Although the defence was outstanding at the weekend, it was an  awful demonstration of non-football. We are better than that. However, we have got the results we needed, for which Warne should be congratulated, but we have been helped to a degree by there being a load of worse teams, but again, we are better than that.

We are blessed as a club because of the phenomenal commitment and loyalty of the fans, because the numbers are there despite what keeps getting served up year on year, because it clearly goes beyond entertainment. And indeed if all I wanted was entertainment, if all I wanted was free-flowing football, I would have given up my season ticket ages ago. But apart from a short period post-Newman, I have been around "since I was a lad", and have renewed for next season.

So here's to next season, the great unknown because we have no idea who will be playing for us, or how they will be playing. And here's to Paul Warne for actually doing what David Clowes employed him to do.

I understand your frustration at wanting to see exciting, flowing football through all areas of the team with midfield dominating and passing through the lines. But I would argue we just haven’t had the players to do this the way you want.

The first point I would make is that you are assuming that at every stage of every game, the players are doing exactly what is asked of them by the management team. I don’t believe this. They don’t encourage players not to pass to each other - they don’t encourage them not to attack the opposition. I have lost count of the number of times in his interviews after the game where he has “criticised” his players for not being braver on the ball and in games. The matches at the end of the season are slightly different as all that matters is gaining 3 points (e.g. Cambridge).

the fact is that our midfield (until Adams arrived) was weak - physically, aggressively and pace wise too. We were bullied off the ball too much, waltzed around by younger, quicker players (Peterborough). We just did not have the right players in there to compete. Before Adams arrival we didn’t have anyone in there who could be aggressive, have any pace or could tackle. Fornah was tried for a while but ran out of steam and made mistakes. At least playing 3 at the back, gives you more potential bodies in midfield with the wingbacks available to help out, but even them, unless it was Forsyth or Nayambe, they we’re not tacklers. Added to this was poor movement off the ball and poor passing. Unfortunately, Hourihane is no longer mobile enough to dominate midfield and we have looked better since he has not been in the side.

Our midfield needs a complete overhaul in the summer. Hopefully we can get Adams in permanently but we need others of similar ilk and also a good playmaker. I think Warne was trying very hard to get the right midfielders in, but it just didn’t happen until Adams arrived.

Finally, I would add that with all the injuries we have had this season (Ward, Elder, Forsyth, Rooney, Bird, Waghorn, Washington, Nyambe, JJ,Embleton,Thompson,Gayle,Barkhuizen), Warne has done a remarkable job in patching us up but still managing to pick up points. Admittedly, not in the exiting way we would all want to see, but there have been some good footballing performances too. Plenty of goals have been scored too (9 more than last year despite losing our talisman McGoldrick). 
All in all, I think we have done pretty well, but I think you are wrong to lay all the Blame on Paul Warne for our less exciting displays - much is down to the players too. I am sure we will recruit well during the summer.

[RadioactiveWaste]

He deserves his chance with us next season, the squad will be rebuilt through necessity.

I imagine we'll be recruiting better, younger versions of some of the older and departing members of the squad.

I don't think we'll play a radically different style, we'll just be playing it better with better players, but, also, against better quality of teams.

I think a lot of folks aren't really appreciating we're going to go from a big fish in a small pond to a medium sized fish in a much bigger pond.

PWs style partly drives some mad in league 1 because we're supposed to be dominating a lot of games and winning a lot of them a lot more comfortably than we have been. Making top end championship teams look like top end championship teams as we pinch wins is a lot more forgivable than making middling league 1 teams look like top end championship teams as we pinch a win. But we've got the results needed by doing it.

[RoyMac5]

44 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

...PWs style partly drives some mad in league 1 because we're supposed to be dominating a lot of games and winning a lot of them a lot more comfortably than we have been. Making top end championship teams look like top end championship teams as we pinch wins is a lot more forgivable than making middling league 1 teams look like top end championship teams as we pinch a win. But we've got the results needed by doing it.

This is the one of the things that worry some fans. How often will we fail to 'pinch a win' and against what quality of opposition? We'll still have the ethos of a 'middling fish' or at least trying to be a 'middling fish' pinching wins in the Championship pond.

Edited April 24 by RoyMac5

[G STAR RAM]

55 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

I understand your frustration at wanting to see exciting, flowing football through all areas of the team with midfield dominating and passing through the lines. But I would argue we just haven’t had the players to do this the way you want.

The first point I would make is that you are assuming that at every stage of every game, the players are doing exactly what is asked of them by the management team. I don’t believe this. They don’t encourage players not to pass to each other - they don’t encourage them not to attack the opposition. I have lost count of the number of times in his interviews after the game where he has “criticised” his players for not being braver on the ball and in games. The matches at the end of the season are slightly different as all that matters is gaining 3 points (e.g. Cambridge).

the fact is that our midfield (until Adams arrived) was weak - physically, aggressively and pace wise too. We were bullied off the ball too much, waltzed around by younger, quicker players (Peterborough). We just did not have the right players in there to compete. Before Adams arrival we didn’t have anyone in there who could be aggressive, have any pace or could tackle. Fornah was tried for a while but ran out of steam and made mistakes. At least playing 3 at the back, gives you more potential bodies in midfield with the wingbacks available to help out, but even them, unless it was Forsyth or Nayambe, they we’re not tacklers. Added to this was poor movement off the ball and poor passing. Unfortunately, Hourihane is no longer mobile enough to dominate midfield and we have looked better since he has not been in the side.

Our midfield needs a complete overhaul in the summer. Hopefully we can get Adams in permanently but we need others of similar ilk and also a good playmaker. I think Warne was trying very hard to get the right midfielders in, but it just didn’t happen until Adams arrived.

Finally, I would add that with all the injuries we have had this season (Ward, Elder, Forsyth, Rooney, Bird, Waghorn, Washington, Nyambe, JJ,Embleton,Thompson,Gayle,Barkhuizen), Warne has done a remarkable job in patching us up but still managing to pick up points. Admittedly, not in the exiting way we would all want to see, but there have been some good footballing performances too. Plenty of goals have been scored too (9 more than last year despite losing our talisman McGoldrick). 
All in all, I think we have done pretty well, but I think you are wrong to lay all the Blame on Paul Warne for our less exciting displays - much is down to the players too. I am sure we will recruit well during the summer.

Not only blame all of the bad performances on Paul Warne but then also say the good performances were down to fans forcing him to change his tactics (other than in the games that we lost of course).

Absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.

[Foreveram]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is the one of the things that worry some fans. How often will we fail to 'pinch a win' and against what quality of opposition? We'll still have the ethos of a 'middling fish' or at least trying to be a 'middling fish' pinching wins in the Championship pond.

Are these the same fans that were worried that the manager wasn’t good enough to get us promoted and wanted him sacked.

[jimtastic56]

57 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

He deserves his chance with us next season, the squad will be rebuilt through necessity.

I imagine we'll be recruiting better, younger versions of some of the older and departing members of the squad.

I don't think we'll play a radically different style, we'll just be playing it better with better players, but, also, against better quality of teams.

I think a lot of folks aren't really appreciating we're going to go from a big fish in a small pond to a medium sized fish in a much bigger pond.

PWs style partly drives some mad in league 1 because we're supposed to be dominating a lot of games and winning a lot of them a lot more comfortably than we have been. Making top end championship teams look like top end championship teams as we pinch wins is a lot more forgivable than making middling league 1 teams look like top end championship teams as we pinch a win. But we've got the results needed by doing it.

This could be the first time in his life that Paul Warne has been given a big lump of cash to spend on players . Not having to trawl round the bargain bucket for players . I would imagine young players in the mould of Knight and Bird would come as part of a medium term strategy.

[RadioactiveWaste]

15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is the one of the things that worry some fans. How often will we fail to 'pinch a win' and against what quality of opposition? We'll still have the ethos of a 'middling fish' or at least trying to be a 'middling fish' pinching wins in the Championship pond.

It's a fair enough question.

I think he's earned the chance to answer it.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Just now, jimtastic56 said:

This could be the first time in his life that Paul Warne has been given a big lump of cash to spend on players . Not having to trawl round the bargain bucket for players . I would imagine young players in the mould of Knight and Bird would come as part of a medium term strategy.

Agreed. I think Adams or very similar to Adams and the new Jason Knight will be on the shopping list, as will a championship version of James Collins. And hopefully a version (replacement) of Sonny Bradley that is what he thought Bradley would be for us this season.

[ramit]

Lets secure our place in the Championship first, eh, then we can have this discussion

[CapeTownRams]

Bottom line- if we go up this season he’s done his job and congrats and thanks are due.

He will be given at least one full season in the Champo . Bottom line first season is to stay up.

Let’s just get on with it. 

[Carl Sagan]

As we approach the Carlisle game, I wonder what Warne will say to the players? I'm reminded of this fantastic pre-match speech to his Rotherham team. This is the best of Paul Warne. Expect we'll see it on Saturday:

 

[Gladys_was_the_Greatest]

13 hours ago, On the Ram Page said:

I understand your frustration at wanting to see exciting, flowing football through all areas of the team with midfield dominating and passing through the lines. But I would argue we just haven’t had the players to do this the way you want.

The first point I would make is that you are assuming that at every stage of every game, the players are doing exactly what is asked of them by the management team. I don’t believe this. They don’t encourage players not to pass to each other - they don’t encourage them not to attack the opposition. I have lost count of the number of times in his interviews after the game where he has “criticised” his players for not being braver on the ball and in games. The matches at the end of the season are slightly different as all that matters is gaining 3 points (e.g. Cambridge).

the fact is that our midfield (until Adams arrived) was weak - physically, aggressively and pace wise too. We were bullied off the ball too much, waltzed around by younger, quicker players (Peterborough). We just did not have the right players in there to compete. Before Adams arrival we didn’t have anyone in there who could be aggressive, have any pace or could tackle. Fornah was tried for a while but ran out of steam and made mistakes. At least playing 3 at the back, gives you more potential bodies in midfield with the wingbacks available to help out, but even them, unless it was Forsyth or Nayambe, they we’re not tacklers. Added to this was poor movement off the ball and poor passing. Unfortunately, Hourihane is no longer mobile enough to dominate midfield and we have looked better since he has not been in the side.

Our midfield needs a complete overhaul in the summer. Hopefully we can get Adams in permanently but we need others of similar ilk and also a good playmaker. I think Warne was trying very hard to get the right midfielders in, but it just didn’t happen until Adams arrived.

Finally, I would add that with all the injuries we have had this season (Ward, Elder, Forsyth, Rooney, Bird, Waghorn, Washington, Nyambe, JJ,Embleton,Thompson,Gayle,Barkhuizen), Warne has done a remarkable job in patching us up but still managing to pick up points. Admittedly, not in the exiting way we would all want to see, but there have been some good footballing performances too. Plenty of goals have been scored too (9 more than last year despite losing our talisman McGoldrick). 
All in all, I think we have done pretty well, but I think you are wrong to lay all the Blame on Paul Warne for our less exciting displays - much is down to the players too. I am sure we will recruit well during the summer.

Ditto! 

[sage]

15 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

It is all you’ve got to go on, but as I say, I don’t think he’s necessarily been below par based on wage budget. That’s not the only way to asses performance, but it’s a valid metric.

I do think our situation will be different because I can’t see us having a bottom 3 wage budget. Even then, I think he’ll have a very clear ceiling, but we’ll just have to see.

I'd imagine our budget will be mid table.

Take away the parachute teams and those with owners throwing money at it and we will be in the top 3 of the rest.

 

[Ambitious]

5 minutes ago, sage said:

I'd imagine our budget will be mid table.

Take away the parachute teams and those with owners throwing money at it and we will be in the top 3 of the rest.

 

We are already likely paying wages a lot higher than a number of Championship clubs - but equally I read that even in League One our revenue was greater than 11 of the 24 Championship clubs last season. 

I'd certainly expect us to be competitive next season in terms of wages, but really wouldn't know where to expect us to be at in terms of transfer fees. We aren't really going to sell anyone that makes us money, unless Cashin goes, but even that wouldn't change our transfer approach too much. 

I'm intrigued to see how we approach the summer. It's a big rebuild job, promoted or not, ideal for Warne to really put his stamp on things. I'd love to see us sign players on the upward trajectory of their career - it's something that we simply haven't done well as a club for as long as I can remember. Although, saying that, it's not as though League One has been littered with players with ability that catch the eye. I've been particularly baffled at the quality of the strikers at this level - I didn't have high expectations but holy s***. They're awful. It's no wonder Rhodes, Martin & Gayle (when he played) drop a level and look 10 years younger! 

There's a few wingers: Poku, Mason-Clarke, Dembele, Kamara, Azeez who potentially could make the step up. A handful of good players elsewhere, but I think largely aside from ourselves at CB with Cashin & Nelson - I'm completely disregarding players in both boxes (CB & ST). 

[Bris Vegas]

17 hours ago, CapeTownRams said:

Bottom line- if we go up this season he’s done his job and congrats and thanks are due.

He will be given at least one full season in the Champo . Bottom line first season is to stay up.

Let’s just get on with it. 

Why would he be given a full season in the Championship?

Every team in the bottom half of the Championship, Sunderland to Rotherham, have changed managers this season. Every one of those clubs sacked a manager.

If Derby are bottom three in the first half of the season and managers like Mowbray are floating about unemployed, there will be huge pressure to get rid.

Sentiment goes out the window. If managers like Nigel Adkins can be sacked after taking Southampton from League One to the PL in favor of a better, more progressive manager, then Derby would be foolish not to follow suite.

Derby have struggled before under Clough and Burley at Championship level. But in both spells there was hope due to how we played.

If results go against Warne and we’re playing unattractive defensive football, I think Clowes’ hand will be forced.

[ramsbottom]

38 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why would he be given a full season in the Championship?

Every team in the bottom half of the Championship, Sunderland to Rotherham, have changed managers this season. Every one of those clubs sacked a manager.

If Derby are bottom three in the first half of the season and managers like Mowbray are floating about unemployed, there will be huge pressure to get rid.

Sentiment goes out the window. If managers like Nigel Adkins can be sacked after taking Southampton from League One to the PL in favor of a better, more progressive manager, then Derby would be foolish not to follow suite.

Derby have struggled before under Clough and Burley at Championship level. But in both spells there was hope due to how we played.

If results go against Warne and we’re playing unattractive defensive football, I think Clowes’ hand will be forced.

I do hate it when I agree with you Bris.  I love Warne.  As a bloke he's great, and as a manager he's not too shabby either, but if we're languishing around the bottom as we approach Christmas then like any other manager he should be let go.  Most fans would be prepared to yo-yo between the Prem & Championship, but not Championship & League 1.  But he's done an amazing job this season, and if we do go up, he deserves a chance.

[Ghost of Clough]

On 23/04/2024 at 18:37, ram59 said:

As I've previously pointed out Warne's last relegation with Rotherham was with a team with the lowest budget in the Championship and if that wasn't bad enough, they actually made an operating profit that season and a profit on player sales. I think that many top managers would struggle under those circumstances.

His budget at Derby will be competitive with most teams in the division and I would be very surprised if he was forced to make a net profit on player sales next season.

W

If we make a couple of assumptions:
1. Club losses in the Championship are no higher than what we had lad season
2. all additional income from being in the Championship is put towards the first team budget (fees and wages)

We would have a total club wage bill of c£27m. That would put us (just) in the top half of the table (roughly 10th-12) 
When factoring in non-playing staff wages, we would drop slightly, and be amongst the likes of QPR, Millwall, and Swansea in terms of player wages. Still more than double what he had at Rotherham though.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why would he be given a full season in the Championship?

Every team in the bottom half of the Championship, Sunderland to Rotherham, have changed managers this season. Every one of those clubs sacked a manager.

If Derby are bottom three in the first half of the season and managers like Mowbray are floating about unemployed, there will be huge pressure to get rid.

Sentiment goes out the window. If managers like Nigel Adkins can be sacked after taking Southampton from League One to the PL in favor of a better, more progressive manager, then Derby would be foolish not to follow suite.

Derby have struggled before under Clough and Burley at Championship level. But in both spells there was hope due to how we played.

If results go against Warne and we’re playing unattractive defensive football, I think Clowes’ hand will be forced.

I’d give him a full season in the Championship IF we’re not in the bottom three or seriously flirting with relegation after a decent number of games. If we get promoted and manage to finish something like 15th or above I don’t think many of us would be complaining too much in our first season.

I’ve not been through the full list but, whilst it may be correct, the fact that every team in the bottom half of the Championship have replaced their managers is a little misleading. Firstly, Plymouth had to because their manager was poached, Birmingham owners have admitted they acted too hastily in getting rid of Eustace and then made a mistake with Rooney, Rotherham are so far adrift that it’s hardly surprising and Stoke are a bit of a basket case that seem to change managers at the drop of a hat. Of the others, there is only Sheffield Wednesday playing their first season back in the Championship and their first half of the season was so poor that, if that was us, it would meet my above criteria for making a change.

[CapeTownRams]

20 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

As we approach the Carlisle game, I wonder what Warne will say to the players? I'm reminded of this fantastic pre-match speech to his Rotherham team. This is the best of Paul Warne. Expect we'll see it on Saturday:

 

I was expecting ‘we will fight them on the beaches…’

Crikes .😳😎