The Paul Warne Poll

[Archied]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Warne's had nearly a year to 'refine his style'. He was meant to be the finished article, the experience over Rosenior's learning first steps. So we could have kept Rosenior and worked with him through to the 'experienced' stage? We're having to do it with Warne anyway and I'm not liking what it appears the end product might be.

I think that’s fair comment roy , for me the question is not can warne do it but rather can he do in very different environment at a club like derby , clowes has put his money on it and I’m ok at this point to go with his judgement, whether he keeps him or sacks him tomorrow 🤷🏻‍♂️

[May Contain Nuts]

16 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

I think the Plymouth game at home really dented Liam’s prospects. 

Mad really when you consider they went on to win the league with 101 points.

[Archied]

9 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

but everyone could see the tactical aspects we were integrating and it was improving every game. Not to mention an almost entire new squad trying to gel together whilst doing that. Night and day compared to how it is now.

Really ? Everyone ? I certainly couldn’t , plenty sitting round me and lots I spoke to couldn’t and it pretty clear our owner couldn’t ,

your opinion is fine as is mine and others , the difference is you speak in terms of EVERYONE seein what you saw and agreeing with you ,,, not the case 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

23 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

technically, to win it 'back' you have to have had it in the first place😅

Sorry, I meant from our kick off 🤣

[IlsonDerby]

2 hours ago, jameso said:

There's a lot I agree with in what you wrote but it's possibly worth mentioning that (apparently) we had 55% possession in the Oxford game (in which we were quite bad) and also in the Wigan game (where my recollection was that we did indeed dominate possession). Amazingly we also had 50% against Blackpool. So we may have been happy to give up possession but in those cases we evidently didn't manage to!

This is not to excuse some of the football on show this season, which other than a couple of halves has been at best dull-but-effective and at worst pretty dire.

It would be eye opening though to see the possession stats up to the point we went behind in those instances. When it comes to chasing the game teams who are in the lead are quite happy to sit back as the game moves on. 
 

What I want to see is us try and dominate and control The ball from the beginning and really have a go at teams. Trust in the players to be able to look after the ball. 
 

We can’t go on like we currently are as we’ll burn out by March.

[LeedsCityRam]

54 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

I think the Plymouth game at home really dented Liam’s prospects. 

I think it was Lincoln away that did for him & we were poor that night. Unfortunately for Liam, we hadnt converted dominance into goals in the previous 3 away league games (Charlton, Shrewsbury & Fleetwood) and so the narrative of us being impotent away from home was born. Richie Barker even made reference to it in an interview pre-Bolton...brass neck of him to come out with that & then deliver that garbage yesterday.

Rosenior leaving felt at the time & still does as a massive missed opportunity. I don't necessarily think we would've gone up last season but I think the foundations would be much stronger than they are now. Possession based football takes longer to implement (certainly more than the 8 games he got) but has a much higher chance of long term success. He also had connections higher up the pyramid (which he leveraged to bring in quality players) & an obvious affinity with the youth ranks. He was the man to help rebuild the club on the pitch.

Instead we brought in Captain Pinball, with all the fanfare about his 'promotion record' only to spend the last 12 months being finger-wagged that we shouldnt expect promotion & how he always needs another 6 months from the point at which he is questioned. We've gone backwards since Sep 2022 & that is a damning indictment on his appointment. 

[Andicis]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks Tyler. I really would like the debate to be widened. It is one way traffic on here at the moment, in spite of the poll stats.

Can some of the 262 post why Warne has their support? @Brailsford Ram posted a week ago that he voted ‘not even close to questioning his future’ because there was no way David Clowes would sack him anyway. The question wasn’t where does Clowes stand with Paul Warne, it was where do YOU stand with Paul Warne. I would like to know what other fans are seeing that I am not - what has Warne done/is doing whilst at Derby that puts you in a position where you are happy to give him at least this season to not be reviewed on his performance.

I considered last season a free hit, given the circumstances we began in and due to financial restrictions ensuring we had the smallest squad depth of any team in the league.

Warne has my support as he is trying to gel a number of new players in, has a history of success in league one and I believe that we will improve substantially going forward. I don't think it's been a brilliant start, nor shocking just a bit flat and a bit meh, however we're not too far away from where we need to be and I think the international break will give Warne a good amount of time to work with the players he's got. 

Personally I think even if ultimately Warne is the wrong man, the time to press reset comes at the end of the season when we are no longer operating under the EFL business plan and have wiggle room to refresh our squad, however with the caveat that I think we need a clear defined style if we were to do that. 

[Yoxoram]

3 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

So we sacked liam when we were just outside the play offs but playing decent football, with a feeling we were really building toward something good. Then replace him with an experienced manager to get us promoted and we are now exactly where we were outside the play offs, but playing terrible football that feels like we're just going backwards. Great.

I'm in the same camp as Archied. The slow turgid passing sideways and sideways and sideways again didn't entertain me either. I was surprised when Rosenior wasn't given the job full time but neither was I unhappy.

[May Contain Nuts]

32 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Warne has my support as he is trying to gel a number of new players in, has a history of success in league one and I believe that we will improve substantially going forward.

How much of this belief is based on evidence of watching Paul Warne's Derby over the past 11 months, and how much on his record at Rotherham?

32 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I don't think it's been a brilliant start, nor shocking just a bit flat and a bit meh, however we're not too far away from where we need to be and I think the international break will give Warne a good amount of time to work with the players he's got. 

Overall I'd agree with that tbf, there have been some 'shocking' moments / spells in games but to call it a shocking start we'd have to be getting results like the start of Cocu's 2nd season.

What do you believe the main reason(s) we aren't quite yet 'where we need to be' to be? What specifically do you think needs to be worked on, and how do you see Warne & his coaches making these improvements with the squad we've got available?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Kokosnuss said:

How much of this belief is based on evidence of watching Paul Warne's Derby over the past 11 months, and how much on his record at Rotherham?

Overall I'd agree with that tbf, there have been some 'shocking' moments / spells in games but to call it a shocking start we'd have to be getting results like the start of Cocu's 2nd season.

What do you believe the main reason(s) we aren't quite yet 'where we need to be'? What specifically do you think needs to be worked on, and how do you see Warne & his coaches making these improvements with the squad we've got available?

Probably more the latter than the former, I think in spells last season we were a decent side and had a good run of banging out results, I think we struggled against the better sides and with a small squad. 

I think one of the reasons we aren't where we need to be is the defensive errors and mishaps that have plagued the season so far. A mixture of poor organisation and player errors contributing to making a number of winnable games into losses which is something that can be addressed immediately. Personally, I think going forward we've been ok, set pieces started well but seem to be less productive in recent weeks. More fluidity in counter attacks with more one touch football and improvements to defensive organisation is what I would like to see. 

[europia]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Warne's had nearly a year to 'refine his style'. He was meant to be the finished article, the experience over Rosenior's learning first steps. So we could have kept Rosenior and worked with him through to the 'experienced' stage? We're having to do it with Warne anyway and I'm not liking what it appears the end product might be.

That's a fair point. Rosenoir may not have had a lot on his managerial CV, but he appears to know his stuff regarding Ch'ship and L1 football. Also seems to have contacts in the game, particularly ones who think highly enough of him to show trust with decent loan players. 

[Zag zig]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think it was Lincoln away that did for him & we were poor that night. Unfortunately for Liam, we hadnt converted dominance into goals in the previous 3 away league games (Charlton, Shrewsbury & Fleetwood) and so the narrative of us being impotent away from home was born. Richie Barker even made reference to it in an interview pre-Bolton...brass neck of him to come out with that & then deliver that garbage yesterday.

Rosenior leaving felt at the time & still does as a massive missed opportunity. I don't necessarily think we would've gone up last season but I think the foundations would be much stronger than they are now. Possession based football takes longer to implement (certainly more than the 8 games he got) but has a much higher chance of long term success. He also had connections higher up the pyramid (which he leveraged to bring in quality players) & an obvious affinity with the youth ranks. He was the man to help rebuild the club on the pitch.

Instead we brought in Captain Pinball, with all the fanfare about his 'promotion record' only to spend the last 12 months being finger-wagged that we shouldnt expect promotion & how he always needs another 6 months from the point at which he is questioned. We've gone backwards since Sep 2022 & that is a damning indictment on his appointment. 

Keep trying to push what happened away, as it won’t change anything now and it’s done, but yes mate it’s so hard for me to argue with any of that.

Just a bit disheartening, when all we want is to move on and see a successful team.

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Yoxoram said:

I'm in the same camp as Archied. The slow turgid passing sideways and sideways and sideways again didn't entertain me either. I was surprised when Rosenior wasn't given the job full time but neither was I unhappy.

The slow keep it method though was part of the first phase of what Liam and Cocu were trying to instill, if its not on you keep the ball, recycle it , etc etc but when I've coached I've always been possesion biased and if its not on don't force it and go backwards if you have to and keep the ball, can  you come out the other side of the pitch if that way is blocked and yes in its infancy it can become turgid but that is mainly because others in the team are not creating overloads and space and its a learning process, Brighton do it very well 

You have to be brave on the ball and sometimes play in tight areas and players like Curtis struggled but eventually players start to move into space to help the player on the ball and it is a learning curve and can be slow and ponderous when first implemented but the emphasis is on keeping the ball and moving it forward when the openings were created and not forcing a ball that wasn't really on in the first place and I see youngsters running out of patience 

But the long term ethos is then embedded and players when and if comfortable are comfortable receiving the ball in tight areas of the pitch especially in the last third.

If we had gone with a manager/coach who likes to play possesion football i believe with some additions we'd have been top 2 this season because I just don't buy into the theory of giving up the ball by playing loose passes and then sitting back but managers and coaches do have different styles of course

PW showed some naivety this season when explaining that we should move the ball quicker from side to side because if its too slow or theres 1 pass too many good teams will block the pathway...but that comment said a lot because thats in most coaching modules for under 11s and 12s so he didn't need to say that because its not rocket science 

I like Warne but I cannot see him changing his football philosophy and its not his fault because he wasn't really right for us, I cannot see Warne using the 2 week break to work on possesion and controlling the game but those two things alone would help our performance and us fans might think we're not sitting back so much 

A good example of possesion based football is obviously Pep at City but in his first season he struggled and didn't pull up many trees so to speak but it didn't stop him continuing and instilling the belief in his players to be brave and keep the ball 

We aren't City i know but looking at the most succesful teams at the moment they do keep the ball much better than us and I don't think the Rowett style of football is the way forward, the big problem now is...if Warne was to be replaced we have players   that i believe would not be suited to that type of football 

I really hope Warne see this as an oppurtunity to get us playing decent stuff but his recent 3 promotions in L1 may well scupper any notion of change but we shall see i guess.........COYR

 

[S8TY]

2 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think it was Lincoln away that did for him & we were poor that night. Unfortunately for Liam, we hadnt converted dominance into goals in the previous 3 away league games (Charlton, Shrewsbury & Fleetwood) and so the narrative of us being impotent away from home was born. Richie Barker even made reference to it in an interview pre-Bolton...brass neck of him to come out with that & then deliver that garbage yesterday.

Rosenior leaving felt at the time & still does as a massive missed opportunity. I don't necessarily think we would've gone up last season but I think the foundations would be much stronger than they are now. Possession based football takes longer to implement (certainly more than the 8 games he got) but has a much higher chance of long term success. He also had connections higher up the pyramid (which he leveraged to bring in quality players) & an obvious affinity with the youth ranks. He was the man to help rebuild the club on the pitch.

Instead we brought in Captain Pinball, with all the fanfare about his 'promotion record' only to spend the last 12 months being finger-wagged that we shouldnt expect promotion & how he always needs another 6 months from the point at which he is questioned. We've gone backwards since Sep 2022 & that is a damning indictment on his appointment. 

Brilliant post and you're spot on with possession

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

It would be eye opening though to see the possession stats up to the point we went behind in those instances. When it comes to chasing the game teams who are in the lead are quite happy to sit back as the game moves on. 
 

What I want to see is us try and dominate and control The ball from the beginning and really have a go at teams. Trust in the players to be able to look after the ball. 
 

We can’t go on like we currently are as we’ll burn out by March.

Possession up until our opponents first goal... 

Wigan - 44:56 (37 mins) 

Blackpool - 50:50 (7 mins) 

Oxford - 46:54 (32 mins)

Peterbrough - 41:59 (23 mins) 

Bolton - 28:72 (43 mins) 

Not a single game where we had more than them.

[NottsRam77]

6 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

Yeah but we were better when we had even more of a restrictive embargo last season than we are now which is very worrying. 

U know its early days of the season right… weve brought in 8/9 /10 ?players

Thats a massive overhaul by any stretch, theyre not going to gel within 5 minutes.

wait til xmas lets see what signs we can see of progression 

[sage]

3 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think it was Lincoln away that did for him & we were poor that night. Unfortunately for Liam, we hadnt converted dominance into goals in the previous 3 away league games (Charlton, Shrewsbury & Fleetwood) and so the narrative of us being impotent away from home was born. Richie Barker even made reference to it in an interview pre-Bolton...brass neck of him to come out with that & then deliver that garbage yesterday.

Rosenior leaving felt at the time & still does as a massive missed opportunity. I don't necessarily think we would've gone up last season but I think the foundations would be much stronger than they are now. Possession based football takes longer to implement (certainly more than the 8 games he got) but has a much higher chance of long term success. He also had connections higher up the pyramid (which he leveraged to bring in quality players) & an obvious affinity with the youth ranks. He was the man to help rebuild the club on the pitch.

Instead we brought in Captain Pinball, with all the fanfare about his 'promotion record' only to spend the last 12 months being finger-wagged that we shouldnt expect promotion & how he always needcs another 6 months from the point at which he is questioned. We've gone backwards since Sep 2022 & that is a damning indictment on his appointment. 

Collins finishing cost Rosenoir his job. Missed 5 good chances in those 3 away games.

 

[trappatoni]

I guess it depends what you like from football but I enjoyed the football under Rosenior.   When you think he hardly had McGoldrick available - where would we have finished under Warne without McGoldrick - I honestly don't think top half would have been definite.  

 

Sacking him (ok not appointing him as permanent manager) looked an odd decision at the time - it makes me fear Clowes' views on the game are decades out of date and he's going to keep on appointing similar types. 

[Rammy03]

1 hour ago, trappatoni said:

I guess it depends what you like from football but I enjoyed the football under Rosenior.   When you think he hardly had McGoldrick available - where would we have finished under Warne without McGoldrick - I honestly don't think top half would have been definite.  

 

Sacking him (ok not appointing him as permanent manager) looked an odd decision at the time - it makes me fear Clowes' views on the game are decades out of date and he's going to keep on appointing similar types. 

Personally I thought the football under Rosenior was boring, far too much possession with no real substance. Reminded me of Cocu. The away form remained a real problem. Some of the games were truly dreadful.

My feeling at the time was that we needed a complete change of direction. A clean slate with a coaching staff who weren't connected to the failed previous regimes. This is why I was pleased when we appointed Paul Warne. Immediately he made us get the ball forwards quicker and in my opinion it was a much better watch. He addressed the away form straight away. I acknowledge there were also poor games and it's not great at the moment.

I don't think this current football is the football Warne wants, far from it in fact. When you hear him talk about the game it just doesn't match with what we are currently seeing on the pitch.

Warnes whole football philosophy is based around pressing and gegenpressing ala Klopps Liverpool. Here's one for the stattos. Under Warne Rotherham consistently had one of the lowest 'Passes allowed Per Defensive Action' rates in the entire English football pyramid. Essentially the lower the PPDA, the less time a team allows the opposition to have on the ball. Highly impressive given the lack of quality and depth within their squad in comparison to teams in the Premier League. Rotherham also had the highest challenge intensity, a metric designed to measure how actively a team is seeking to recover the ball. So what these stats tell us is that Rotherham actively looked to win the ball pressing high up the pitch, and were very good at it.

We saw this at times last season, mostly in that good run we had. The 4-2 against Bristol Rovers and the 4-0 demolition of Accrington Stanley spring to mind. Those games I think we saw what Paul Warne wants. We pressed both of those teams high up the pitch and caught them time after time. And we didn't play hopeless long balls. We kept the ball on the deck and moved it quickly, knitting together some good moves. Then mixed it up when we needed to, what good teams do. Aggressive front foot football is exactly what I want to see at the club.

I think we just have to give it a bit more time and let things settle down. I'm confident we will see a good Derby County this season.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Rammy03

[sunnyhill60]

2 hours ago, sage said:

Collins finishing cost Rosenoir his job. Missed 5 good chances in those 3 away games.

 

Who signed Collins?