The Paul Warne Poll

[FlyBritishMidland]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

TBH whether you're a Warne fan or not, or undecided, it's clear from his management history that promotion would be expected and was part of his remit. So the only extra pressure would be dealing with how quickly the fans 'turn' when things don't go well, as well as dealing with things not going well. He's already made comments about being booed hasn't he? So he's undoubtedly now feeling the pressure, but the expectation was always there imo.

Don’t disagree with that.  I just think that PW probably puts himself under more pressure.  In a “oh crap, my boss has just said I’m the ‘King of L1’ so I’d better win the league” kind of way.  Maybe he needs to relax and take stock.  I’ve no evidence for this at all by the way, just my reading of the situation.

[SSD]

Hands are tied behind our backs because we offered Warne a nice juicy contract to tempt him to join our club. As much as I can't stand the football being offered, I believe we have little choice other than to keep him until the end of the season unless we fell well away from the top 6. I also believe Warne seems to be the type of chap who would walk away from a job if he felt he was not delivering his aims.

I personally don't like his recruitment policy of buying older players on bigger contracts. I've seen it too many times over the years where we've bought too many twilight career footballers and feeling more disappointed when they are not performing well. The balance of the squad doesn't look right to me. The best teams I've always seen have a good blend of youth, prime and experienced players. We have too many over or approaching 30. I've never believed in the "experience buys promotion" idea. Has it ever worked for Derby in the past? It only seems to result in a bloated wage budget and not being able to shift people along.

The Waggy situation has annoyed me and provides more doubts about PW. I'm really glad the player is back and we are lucky to have brought him in after what happened originally, our manager outright dismissing him at the first opportunity. It makes me wonder how many good players have we may have missed out on because Warne prejudged their character. To say he's a people person, why would you flat out refuse a player of that calibre and not speak to them about their situation. That fortunate piece of luck has already saved the manager from more criticism.

Ultimately he just isn't the manager for me. I can completely understand why our owner went for someone like Warne. On paper he's a great fit. Unfortunately now we've digged deeper into his playing style, tactical (or lack of) knowledge and recruitment policy, I don't think he is the right fit for the club.

[bcnram]

17 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I highly doubt he considers it a "massive mistake" just yet or is therefore putting the feelers out. I would imagine DC has, even if only in his own mind, set certain triggers at which point he would consider pulling the trigger and none of these are anywhere near being reached yet.

My guess is that promotion (within a timescale that may not align with what us supporters want or expect) is DC's priority rather than style of football at the moment and we'd have to be a lot nearer to a relegation fight for him to consider sacking Warne. Probably not what many would either agree with or want to hear but I reckon that is the reality we perhaps need to come to terms with.

Hmmm! If that was the case (and you are only guessing yourself), I would hope that our current manager was not the only name in front of him. If thoughts of entertaining his 25,000 ish customers is not high up in the chairman’s  thoughts, maybe it should be, because what we are seeing is poor disorganised football. 

[RoyMac5]

26 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Hmmm! If that was the case (and you are only guessing yourself), I would hope that our current manager was not the only name in front of him. If thoughts of entertaining his 25,000 ish customers is not high up in the chairman’s  thoughts, maybe it should be, because what we are seeing is poor disorganised football. 

And surely at our level and Championship a large portion of the Clubs income comes from paying supporters rather than Sky/Prem money?

[Chris_Martin]

31 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Hmmm! If that was the case (and you are only guessing yourself), I would hope that our current manager was not the only name in front of him. If thoughts of entertaining his 25,000 ish customers is not high up in the chairman’s  thoughts, maybe it should be, because what we are seeing is poor disorganised football. 

very generous of you to call it football😅

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, bcnram said:

Hmmm! If that was the case (and you are only guessing yourself), I would hope that our current manager was not the only name in front of him. If thoughts of entertaining his 25,000 ish customers is not high up in the chairman’s  thoughts, maybe it should be, because what we are seeing is poor disorganised football. 

Well of course I’m only guessing, I never suggested otherwise. I just reckon that DC’s number one priority is getting the club back into the championship. I would imagine entertaining the customers is important to him as well but, at the moment, is secondary to getting promoted. He would have known that Warne’s style isn’t exactly champagne football but is effective at getting out of league one (upwards). I would suggest though, that what we’re seeing at the moment (poor disorganised football as you fairly describe it) isn’t Warne’s style. 
 

The point I was trying to make is that whilst I doubt DC is particularly overjoyed with either results or performances at the moment, I wouldn’t have thought he’s written the appointment of Warne off as a massive mistake just yet and isn’t anywhere near replacing him. Consequently, I don’t think he will be having conversations or putting feelers out yet. What would be the point if there is no job to offer yet?

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

...The point I was trying to make is that whilst I doubt DC is particularly overjoyed with either results or performances at the moment, I wouldn’t have thought he’s written the appointment of Warne off as a massive mistake just yet and isn’t anywhere near replacing him. Consequently, I don’t think he will be having conversations or putting feelers out yet. What would be the point if there is no job to offer yet?

How soon do you think it was before Rosenior was being 'ruled out' and a new manager 'ruled in'? 

[angieram]

5 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Don’t disagree with that.  I just think that PW probably puts himself under more pressure.  In a “oh crap, my boss has just said I’m the ‘King of L1’ so I’d better win the league” kind of way.  Maybe he needs to relax and take stock.  I’ve no evidence for this at all by the way, just my reading of the situation.

He looked and acted very jittery at the Fans' Forum on Tuesday night.

He either needs to drink less coffee, or things are getting to him, imo.

I've already commented elsewhere that he doesn't seem to recognise the need for work-life balance.

If I worked with him I'd be encouraging some resilience and mindfullness training. 

[DCFC Kicks]

On 08/09/2023 at 22:10, Jourdan said:

Our best run was 9 wins and 6 draws in 15 league games. That’s over two points per game and trending for over 100 points across a 46-game season. Inevitably there would be a drop off.

6 wins and 5 draws in 18 as a stat doesn’t tell the whole story though. I don’t dispute there were poor results and poor performances but there were also games where we played reasonably well and sometimes very well but didn’t come away with the points we deserved for various reasons. It’s a combination of factors. Not just luck, but it helps.

I am not pretending anything. McGoldrick was brilliant but it’s useless to speculate on how things would have been without him. We simply do not know, for better or worse.

The calibre and experience of said players can be very misleading though. You have to look at what they can offer now and bring to the table at present. You talk of the high level experience of these players, but how telling has it been really? Only McGoldrick consistently stood out last season. The rest looked very much like League 1 players.

An ingrained brute like style? Irreversible damage caused by Warne? No better chance at promotion? Please stop. If we are playing like brutes and in mid table in April, this might be fair. But in September? It seems completely unfounded hyperbole and scaremongering.

 

I don’t accept your reasoning for the drop-off, because you could just apply it in the same way as reasoning for why we were winning in our good spell (luck, not getting what our performances deserve etc.). My main concern about our good spell was the fact it came early in Warnes time here. Shouldn’t it happen later as he gradually improves the team? It’s been over 30 games of not improving from the good spell. Why? 

Stop sitting on the fence. We all know McGoldrick is irreplaceable. He’s a player you just put in the team and let him get on with it. The manager has no input in his performance. He carried Warne last season. Of course we don’t know what would’ve happened if McGoldrick didn’t sign. Just like we don’t know what would’ve happened if Rosenior had stayed, or if we played Forsyth up front. It’s a non-argument. You’re using ‘what ifs’ to avoid making an opinion so you don’t run the risk of being wrong.

The players we signed last season were all playing at least top half Champ football in the last 2 seasons. Most weren’t even that old. Why is it the players fault for not performing instead of the coach? We now know there were very few restrictions this season compared to last as well.
 

I didn’t say it was irreversible. Does it not take time to change styles when a new manager comes in because they’re used to playing a certain way? It took Warne a while to change from Roseniors style. A change, which in my opinion, correlated with the quality of football. Why do you just say ‘please stop’ instead of acknowledging the points I was making? Do you not think the competition is relatively worse this season? Why do you keep speaking like this is Warnes first season and he wasn’t here most of last season? 50+ games is long enough to expect improvement.

[Chris_Martin]

On 08/09/2023 at 22:22, Jourdan said:

I don’t need to look up the PPG. Of course there would be a drop off from the kind of form that if replicated across a whole season would see us on the verge of breaking divisional records.

Nowhere did I say that Warne would sign a player to match McGoldrick’s impact? I said Rosenior would have signed a different player and we don’t know what kind of knock on effect that would have had.

Polar opposites? Who are these players with superior technical ability? Who are these promising young players? Are you sure this is the desired style of play? Could we look different in 10-15 games?

We are six games in. We don’t know how strong the league is and how difficult it will be to achieve our goals. You are just guessing. What we do know is that four points separate us and the team currently in first place, so clamouring for change so relentlessly at this stage is silly when the picture could change in 2-3 games.

but the difference in ppg before and after february is to highlight the huge drop off, not just show how many points we picked up before.

don't understand your point here, rosenior did sign mcgoldrick.

Hourihane, Mcgoldrick, Barkhuizen, Smith, NML, all have technical ability. Rosenior also signed Roberts and Osula as very promising young players. We will not look any different in 10-15 games because there is absolutely zero evidence of it happening. Warne has played this exact way his entire career, he doesn't know how to do anything else. 

We kind of do know how strong the league is though, much worse than last year. You keep saying that things could look different in 2-3 games or what will we be like in 10 games etc. What actual evidence is there to say we will improve? There have been no signs of improvement in any areas of our game. The fact we are 4 points from top is nothing more than lucky. If this was last season we'd already be 11 points of the top 2!