The Paul Warne Poll

[Jourdan]

The debate always seems to be Warne v Rosenior, but personally at this moment it’s Warne v Warne.

The manager he is v the manager he could be.

I think the start to the season has underlined that Warne needs to read the situation and adjust accordingly to save his job.

He has some reflecting and some learning to do and hopefully now is the ideal time. He has a two week break to assess the situation and see how we can get things right and move the team forward.

We have a squad set in place now until January, so he has to decide on the best eleven and the best system and style to get acceptable results and performances.

The question is whether the club and the fans will be patient enough to allow him this time to figure things out.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

This is all part of the learning process Archied yes it was frustrating but when you’re introducing a possession based football tactic keeping the ball and going back wards is part of the initial keep ball process …there’s no point in saying there’s not a ball on so just go long into the channels as that is opposite to what a coach is trying to implement but yes I agree in its infancy and when players don’t move and support it’s frustrating going backwards to keep it ..but that’s just part of the learning curve if allowed to carry on it would’ve got better and players would’ve been more comfortable in tight areas …if not then the players would’ve been moved on to ones that can do it ….but I’m not arguing your point but just re iterating that it doesn’t happen overnight mate 

I know what it is and it’s very much my point that any system style of play takes time and  can look honking , with the greatest respect I’ve been watching derby over 50 years and seen us play all types of styles under many many managers , keep ball bores me senseless, it’s just posh time wasting, give me toe to toe open games all day long ,I don’t drive a 6 hour round trip to fall asleep watching one of those pre game warm up pass it round routines for 90 minutes 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

...We have a squad set in place now until January, so he has to decide on the best eleven and the best system and style to get acceptable results and performances.

The question is whether the club and the fans will be patient enough to allow him this time to figure things out.

Yes, but the thing is it's not his first season is it. That's what last season was supposedly for.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

ok well we'll just have to agree to disagree on then😅

1 - i mean the 'we' as in all of those who were happy for liam to stay

2 - at least we made it to the halfway line then😅. Watching us lose it constantly in dangerous positions is exactly whats happening now, is it not? Judging on what he's now doing at Hull we can assume he's not a poor coach. In mine and several others opinion he coached more into the players during his 12 games in charge than warne has in 12 months. I agree with you some of the players don't suit warne's 'football'.

3 - yes he like all managers need the results, but when the results aren't there and the football is so poor, what does he have to fall back on? it doesn't have to be liam, i was just trying to highlight what a different manager could potentially do. Liam being our most recent, i thought it easiest to compare to him. 

To be fair you started with the phrase EVERYONE could see he was building something good ,

we made it to the halfway line and we’ll beyond under warne and scored some cracking goals 

possession football of the kind you yearn for is fine but by duck it needs an extremely good manager and extremely good players who understand and are capable of a change of pace , without that in the main you get turgid toothless boring teams , 

yes agree to disagree but please remember yours ( as is mine ) is only AN opinion it’s not THE opinion of everyone 

[Chris_Martin]

26 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

When we play these tough away games - should we play a defensive system and try and catch teams on the break? Has Warne got this in his locker ?

from what we've seen in the last 12 months, you would have to say he is very one dimensional. The pattern of play home or away is sit deep, then when we eventually get the ball, break down the line and cross it in. Failing that it's play for set pieces. I am not sure he knows how to do anything else to be honest and it seems to have become quite predictable.

[Chris_Martin]

6 minutes ago, Archied said:

possession football of the kind you yearn for is fine but by duck it needs an extremely good manager and extremely good players who understand and are capable of a change of pace , without that in the main you get turgid toothless boring teams , 

if it can only be done with extremely good players and an extremely good manager, then why are worse teams, with worse players than us, able to do it ?

I'm not asking for pep guardiola, just someone who will not be so negative and one dimensional. 

[Jourdan]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes, but the thing is it's not his first season is it. That's what last season was supposedly for.

It might not be his first season in charge, but whether it’s your first or fifth season in charge, there is the possibility for things to go wrong.

There is the possibility for unforeseen circumstances and plans that seemed good in theory but look less good in practice.

Pre-season can only prepare for you so much. It’s not until you play some competitive football that you can see what works and what doesn’t.

The hope now is that Warne has seen this and moves to correct things.

[i-Ram]

30 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Pre-season can only prepare for you so much. It’s not until you play some competitive football that you can see what works and what doesn’t.

Well pre-season seemed to be preparing our squad for the Great North Run. Giving them a football to kick in competitive match play caught a great many unawares. 

[Terry Hennessy]

I don't get this anti Warne comment by certain people. 

Since Billy Davies left in November 2007 [the last manager to win us anything] ... that's nearly 16 years ago we've had 17 managers...17 managers... and not 1 has got us up. Warne has done 3 promotions from this league.... has effectively had only 1 transfer window... not had any money to spend.... I just wish you'd give him a break and stop this hire and fire merry go round talk....

[Andicis]

The Rosenior angle is just so lazy and uninteresting yet it repeatedly crops up. Posters that are anti Warne will just make statements about the amazing football they reckon Rosenior was going to get us playing (completely unrelated to the football we actually played under him and not grounded in any reality). Let it go. Rosenior is gone, your made is scenario isn't real. 

[Jimbo Ram]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

To be fair you started with the phrase EVERYONE could see he was building something good ,

we made it to the halfway line and we’ll beyond under warne and scored some cracking goals 

possession football of the kind you yearn for is fine but by duck it needs an extremely good manager and extremely good players who understand and are capable of a change of pace , without that in the main you get turgid toothless boring teams , 

yes agree to disagree but please remember yours ( as is mine ) is only AN opinion it’s not THE opinion of everyone 

Not too keen on turgid hoof ball either 😉

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The Rosenior angle is just so lazy and uninteresting yet it repeatedly crops up. Posters that are anti Warne will just make statements about the amazing football they reckon Rosenior was going to get us playing (completely unrelated to the football we actually played under him and not grounded in any reality). Let it go. Rosenior is gone, your made is scenario isn't real. 

About as uninteresting as the football that replaced him 😊

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

About as uninteresting as the football that replaced him 😊

As well as this post. 

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, Terry Hennessy said:

I don't get this anti Warne comment by certain people. 

Since Billy Davies left in November 2007 [the last manager to win us anything] ... that's nearly 16 years ago we've had 17 managers...17 managers... and not 1 has got us up. Warne has done 3 promotions from this league.... has effectively had only 1 transfer window... not had any money to spend.... I just wish you'd give him a break and stop this hire and fire merry go round talk....

Explain why the team has got gradually worse since Warne has been here then. Shouldn't it be the opposite? He's been here 51 games now, which is long enough to demonstrate some sort of progression. 

[Yoxoram]

1 hour ago, Terry Hennessy said:

I don't get this anti Warne comment by certain people. 

Since Billy Davies left in November 2007 [the last manager to win us anything] ... that's nearly 16 years ago we've had 17 managers...17 managers... and not 1 has got us up. Warne has done 3 promotions from this league.... has effectively had only 1 transfer window... not had any money to spend.... I just wish you'd give him a break and stop this hire and fire merry go round talk....

Good post. Some have come close but no one has made it. I agree with "give him a break" and would point out that the gods have not looked kindly at us. For example, injuries to players who might have made Warne's preferred style of play work better (Ward, Kane and Sibley).

Our start, I think it's fair to say, has been bang average but historically Derby have never been brilliant starters and it doesn't seem to matter who is the manager and their style of play.

[S8TY]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

I know what it is and it’s very much my point that any system style of play takes time and  can look honking , with the greatest respect I’ve been watching derby over 50 years and seen us play all types of styles under many many managers , keep ball bores me senseless, it’s just posh time wasting, give me toe to toe open games all day long ,I don’t drive a 6 hour round trip to fall asleep watching one of those pre game warm up pass it round routines for 90 minutes 

So you think City are boring to watch ? 
Some do think that …I don’t as to me it’s total control football 

[Yoxoram]

24 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Explain why the team has got gradually worse since Warne has been here then. Shouldn't it be the opposite? He's been here 51 games now, which is long enough to demonstrate some sort of progression. 

I presume therefore that you would have sacked Brian Clough after the first few games of the 1968/69 season as after a reasonable start in the 1967/68 season, league form went downhill. His record at the start of 1968/69 was poor with only one win in the first six matches and three draws. Translated into today's points totals that is six points. A worse record than Warne at the start of this season.

[Walkley Ram]

12 minutes ago, Yoxoram said:

I presume therefore that you would have sacked Brian Clough after the first few games of the 1968/69 season as after a reasonable start in the 1967/68 season, league form went downhill. His record at the start of 1968/69 was poor with only one win in the first six matches and three draws. Translated into today's points totals that is six points. A worse record than Warne at the start of this season.

We've already lost 3 league games, out of six. In 1968 it took Clough 13 games to lose 3, and 27 games to lose 4.

I understand your point though, nobody knows what will happen if a team keeps or dismisses a manager.

Edited September 4, 2023 by oodledoodle
I can't spell

[Jourdan]

42 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Explain why the team has got gradually worse since Warne has been here then. Shouldn't it be the opposite? He's been here 51 games now, which is long enough to demonstrate some sort of progression. 

How do you demonstrate progress six games into the season and especially when the squad has had 11 new arrivals, 4-5 significant first team outgoings, and a significant number of injuries? What are we comparing? By what objective metric exactly?

We’re actually 4 points better off now v comparable fixtures in 2022-23. Is that progression? I don’t think anyone in favour of Warne would argue that because we are only six games in, not 36. Things are still taking shape. We won’t know how much we’ve progressed until March or April next year and whether we mount and sustain a promotion challenge.

Do they hand out trophies and prize money now? How do you define progress less than 20% into the season? Final positions are decided after 46 games. 40 games from now, if we finish 6th or above, isn’t that progression?

[May Contain Nuts]

58 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The Rosenior angle is just so lazy and uninteresting yet it repeatedly crops up. Posters that are anti Warne will just make statements about the amazing football they reckon Rosenior was going to get us playing (completely unrelated to the football we actually played under him and not grounded in any reality). Let it go. Rosenior is gone, your made is scenario isn't real. 

It is lazy and uninteresting, I agree.

Let's not pretend that he only gets brought into the conversation by people looking to being critical of Warne though, or that anyone who makes any sort of comparison is doing so out of a belief that Rosenior was on the verge of having us play scintillating attacking football.

A large number of people will, I believe, be of the opinion that that they could see a reasonably solid and organised base from which we could improve, despite being a bit too slow / cautious and overplaying at times. Those people would see that there we aspired to play positive, attacking possession based football, given time and suitable squad development.

IMO it's hard to see what we aspire to be under Warne, other than a team who are really, really good at playing frantic football with very little nuance and almost no scalability when going up the leagues. That's if it can even successfully achieve the first part, but with it being such a basic approach it wouldn't surprise me if it's a busted flush. But that's by-the-by.

Rather often, Rosenior is brought into the conversation by people defending Warne and completely exaggerating the negatives of our play under him, or because of the sometimes ridiculous double standards applied to both his and Warne's tenures, and people reacting to that.

There are a certain hardcore who outright refuse to hear a single word of criticism against Warne without getting really, really narky and who'll plead that it's too early for him to be judged while at the same time having made up their mind that they'd seen all a Rosenior team had to offer and didn't like it. I'm not saying you're in that group btw.

Honestly, people should probably just stop these pointless comparisons to Rosenior from both sides of the argument, but every post like yours and like mine right here adds to it. It's unavoidable really.