Matchday Thread - Shrewsbury Town v Derby County (16/08 19:45)

[DerbyRevolution]

19 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Breaking news.  Team with talented individuals fail to break down well disciplined defensive unit.

I believe this is the first time this has ever happened in the history of football. 

I've just called Liam and told him what we should have done. He thanked me and apologised for not knowing the simple solution to always beats teams that set up like that. 

I'm very unsurprised he said that as I knew it to be the case. I can now claim to have predicted the future.

Why aren't we winning every game? If only I were the manager. 

Attack?

[admira]

With nine games between July 30th and August 30th, I hope our small squad has enough resilience to cope.

Seeing as our team have only known each other a very short time; despite not winning, it was impressive how we were dominating an established side away from home.

[Jourdan]

7 hours ago, rammieib said:

We’re 7th mate. Not 24th. Over reactions!?!?

Yes, we can all read the league table. No-one is saying that is the problem.

I think most people understand this season will be a grind and teams will make it difficult for us.

I also think most people understand that we are a work in progress and we’re looking at somewhere in the top half. Top six if we put results together and 7-12th if we just tick along.

It’s not an overreaction. No-one wants Rosenior’s head on a stick. People want him to be more flexible, more adaptable, rather than sticking rigidly and stubbornly to a philosophy that has proven time and time again not to get the best out of us in an attacking sense.

We have a brand new midfield and a brand new front three. New players, yet same old mechanisms. It doesn’t bode well. It doesn’t set the right tone.

If that continues, frustration will only grow. People can accept when other teams are better, but it’s more difficult to accept when we are our own worst enemy.

[WestLondonRam]

19 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Respect your view West London but I think Roberts is the better player. Fozzy is certainly taller.

Still see it the same way after last night? 

 

[sage]

1 hour ago, DerbyRevolution said:

I asked this last night and got no response, so i'll ask again...

Why are we passing it round the back for over half the game?

We have superior players and we're just ticking the clock down for the opposition turning it into a 30 min football match, then its a lottery

My understanding is playing out from the back is a tactic used to try and beat a press. if 3 or 4 of the opposition press and you play through it you are through and advance on their defence

Last night we played it round the back, beat the shrewsbury one man press then cashin either goes long into their half or it goes into bird or hourihanne. at either point shrewsbury had 10 players all in position in their half

I know its early in the season but I dont see this tactic changing, i can see many away games ending 0-0 or worse. lets be honest, if Shrewsbury were half decent last night going forward we would have been punished 

Three reasons

We are trying to draw the opposition onto us then pass through them

To patiently love the ball around whilst waiting for an opening as we don't have a dominant target man

All the other teams will be fitter than us so we can try to wear them down by chasing the ball

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

5 minutes ago, WestLondonRam said:

Still see it the same way after last night? 

 

Absolutely. Roberts was very involved.

[Edtheram]

I think the reaction of many fans on here is reasonable.

Im not angry at anyone player or coach or the manager, its just the fact that we SHOULD have 12 points now but seem to be unable to win away games in which we dominate teams, which in my opinion is worrying.

In a season where we all want to get back to where we belong sooner rather than later, many performances like Charlton and Shrewsbury where we take 1 point and score 0 goals will be an annoyance as these points are vital. When you dominate a team and create chances you need to be winning. The concern is were creating chances and dominating inferior teams but not producing.

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

I think the reaction of many fans on here is reasonable.

Im not angry at anyone player or coach or the manager, its just the fact that we SHOULD have 12 points now but seem to be unable to win away games in which we dominate teams, which in my opinion is worrying.

In a season where we all want to get back to where we belong sooner rather than later, many performances like Charlton and Shrewsbury where we take 1 point and score 0 goals will be an annoyance as these points are vital. When you dominate a team and create chances you need to be winning. The concern is were creating chances and dominating inferior teams but not producing.

How should we have 12 points???

[Rammy03]

25 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I also think most people understand that we are a work in progress and we’re looking at somewhere in the top half. Top six if we put results together and 7-12th if we just tick along.

We're looking at promotion. That is the aim. Players and manager have made that very clear.

[HorsforthRam]

29 minutes ago, sage said:

Three reasons

We are trying to draw the opposition onto us then pass through them

To patiently love the ball around whilst waiting for an opening as we don't have a dominant target man

All the other teams will be fitter than us so we can try to wear them down by chasing the ball

 

Understand that’s what we’re trying to do, however, it didn’t look like the opposition were doing too much chasing when the ball is just being played between the centre backs and the goalkeeper and only a single player is pressing from the opposition.  We need a midfield player that is willing to play on the half turn to disrupt the solid defensive formation

[sage]

1 minute ago, HorsforthRam said:

Understand that’s what we’re trying to do, however, it didn’t look like the opposition were doing too much chasing when the ball is just being played between the centre backs and the goalkeeper and only a single player is pressing from the opposition.  We need a midfield player that is willing to play on the half turn to disrupt the solid defensive formation

I wouldn't disagree. LR doesn't trust Sibley to retain possession in those areas and Smith doesn't seem to want to do anything other than the very basics. Early days though. 

[Ellafella]

5 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

Understand that’s what we’re trying to do, however, it didn’t look like the opposition were doing too much chasing when the ball is just being played between the centre backs and the goalkeeper and only a single player is pressing from the opposition.  We need a midfield player that is willing to play on the half turn to disrupt the solid defensive formation

Exactly...Knight advanced into midfield mid-second-half last night and took a couple of players out and suddenly space and an overlap opened up on the left. I think Dobbin - once fit will also turn a lot of opposition players. We can see th eseeds but it has to be done on a more regular basis. 

[Carl Sagan]

Had a read of their match thread to see how they viewed the game and extracted these comments (in timeline order) relevant to us:

 

Derby very much ahead on possession.

 

83% to our 17% currently.
Its what you do with it that counts though.

 

most of that was passing the ball backwards and forwards on the edge of the box , and then eventually they hoof it like we do

 

Town defending really well, only the one real chance for Derby.
Interesting to note that we won the ball in really dangerous areas on the two occasions that we pressed as a team.

 

Good half from town. Derby are good on the ball but our hard work, aggression and organisation has nullified their threat on the whole. We have also looked useful going forward.

 

Loads of possession, but they’ve had 1 chance, (which was brilliant goalkeeping by marosi!)
They’re a bit ponderous at the back, and for some reason their keeper is playing centre half when they have the ball, if we nick it we should shoot on sight..
if Pyke had a bit more belief he’d of had a tap in after a slack pass from them.

 

We were the better team 2nd half

 

Poor from Town first half, pretty much just allowed Derby to dominate. Better second half. 

 

If it wasn't for some poor finishing by udoh we would have got the 3 points.
I was surprised by how poor Derby were. They lacked pace and had little physical presence. They will need more than tidy passing to do well in this league.

 

A slightly challenging watch, with a toothless County side cancelled out by our excellent defending, but offering little going forward ourselves bar the odd moment.

 

We gave Derby too much respect first half, solid enough though albeit they missed a point blank header and Marosi made 1 excellent save
Much better 2nd half, where we saw a bit more of the ball, and created a few good chances ourselves.

 

In fairness, Derby's attempt to con the referee was just as s**t. 0-0 on convincing penalty claims too.

 

Very lucky not to give Derby a penalty at the end, most refs would give that.

 

quite an entertaining game, perhaps seemed better with a full away following than it actually was, lots of corners but not many chances, Marosi as usual kept us in it with Derbys only 2 real chances, and Udoh could have won it in the 95th

 

Derby had the bulk of the possession in the first half, they looked good on the ball two good saves from our kepper, i expected them to have more of a threat in the final third. ironically town had the best chances, leahy , nurse and udoh he really should have done better with his extra time chance. Town kept there shape and stiffled Derby a much better second half by town but the midfield continue to look disjointed, our distribution was poor far to many moves broke down due to a poor pass.a plesant suprise to get a point , i lost count how many Derby subs came on

 

We could, and should, have won it in the last few minutes but it would have been another slight robbery. We defended so, so well but Derby clearly still dominated the game overall, albeit they didn’t often break down our very defensive set up.

 

That was a quality second half performance. Silenced the Derby fans and caused their manager to make four subs.
Udoh won't sleep much tonight over his late miss.

 

25% possession, no subs used and time wasting from about 60 minutes onwards is a bit cheap for me when we're the home side. It felt a bit like we were playing for a lucrative replay in the FA Cup. Derby are probably better than your average recently relegated side at this level by virtue of the fact they dropped out of the Championship on a technicality but I don't exactly expect them to set the world alight on tonight's reckoning. They could pass the hind legs of a donkey but actually when it came to the business end they looked distinctly average. The arrogance of their short-sleeved Neuer wannabe goalkeeper playing pretty much as a sweeper deserved to be punished by that long range Leahy effort.

 

Derby had 81% possession  !!!!!!!! in the first half town ran themselves ragged trying to get the ball as good as Derby are on the ball they created very little and i can only recall two saves. if they wont go back up they are going to have to improve in front of goal.

 

An enjoyable game even if there were a lot of twitchy moments with our rope-a-dope style. Derby's passing was impressive and we put together a few nice moves of our own, but we don't seem to know what to do once we are within twenty yards of goal.

 

Feels like tonight was probably more winnable than Saturday but overall you'd probably have taken 4 pts from these 3 games last Friday so can't complain too much.

 

Really good game to watch and couldn’t take your eyes off it. I think a draw on reflection was about right given Derby’s possession & our chances.
Don’t forget Derby have also had an overhaul so are finding their feet a bit too. I definitely think they’ll be thereabouts at the end of the season.

 

Yes Derby had 70+% of the game, but 30% of that was passing along the back line in their own half. Thoroughly enjoyed the match. Marosi made two excellent saves, but Leahy was man of the match for me.

 

Derby had the lion's share of possession because they spent a lot of it passing sideways and backwards. I thought if we had been more clinical instead of wildly lashing at the ball in front of goal, (get well soon, Aiden), we could have Juan it.

 

when I see people saying it was an entertaining game, I thought completely different, particularly first half where it was a non event and a glorified attack v defenders training session. I completely agree that it felt like we were playing a big Prem side in the FA Cup where we were happy to let them have the ball, they have some decent players and will certainly be up there but they are just a fellow L1 side now and it would have been nice to have got in their faces a bit more, when we showed some attacking intent in the second half we looked dangerous, we just didn't do enough of it.

 

Derby have better ball players than us so if we went head to head and tried to control the ball and out pass them then we would have lost
Cotteril got his tactics pretty much bang on by letting them pass it around their back line and then Salop trigger pressing which resulted in Derby recycling the ball. It worked a treat and nullified them.

 

As for Derby they gave off the air of a team who thought they were far too good for this league but the way they try to play the ball out of their defence in their own penalty area and the ridiculous positioning of their goalkeeper far up the field (making say Dean Henderson look like a line keeper) will cost them quite a few goals this season. However any team that bring quality like McGoldrick off the bench must surely be in the mix for promotion from League 1 at the end of the season.

 

Credit to both teams, Derby came to play football and passed the ball really well.
We defended equally well and posed an attacking threat but without much composure. You couldn't take your eye off the action for a second and we could have won it near the end but a point each was about right.

[PistoldPete]

27 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

How should we have 12 points???

Four times three.

[AGR]

2 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

Get Dobbin in the box playing off Collins. He reminds me of @Dean (hick) Saunders when he runs with the ball and will be a total nightmare for defenders in the penalty area.

He will get no joy playing off Collins I'm afraid. Collins can't head or hold the ball up. Not sure what he offers.

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Yes, we can all read the league table. No-one is saying that is the problem.

I think most people understand this season will be a grind and teams will make it difficult for us.

I also think most people understand that we are a work in progress and we’re looking at somewhere in the top half. Top six if we put results together and 7-12th if we just tick along.

It’s not an overreaction. No-one wants Rosenior’s head on a stick. People want him to be more flexible, more adaptable, rather than sticking rigidly and stubbornly to a philosophy that has proven time and time again not to get the best out of us in an attacking sense.

We have a brand new midfield and a brand new front three. New players, yet same old mechanisms. It doesn’t bode well. It doesn’t set the right tone.

If that continues, frustration will only grow. People can accept when other teams are better, but it’s more difficult to accept when we are our own worst enemy.

But your original comment I quoted was saying (and I paraphrase) - this is the same old, it doesn't work.

That is an over reaction. Why won't it work? It didn't score us a goal last night but I could see the patterns of play, and I can absolutely see what they were trying to do. I agree it needs a few tweaks, I think Smith is being played wrongly and needs DM/LS instead of him, and I'd like to see the wingers go in behind running onto a ball more but these are the tweaks that LR will need to make.

We don't need to change the way we play, just make subtle changes to it to capitalise on opportunities. If we were not creating any good opportunities to score, I'd be worried but even last night I would say that Berkhuisen, Stearman and Sibley should have done better with their opportunities.

If we are playing like this at the half way point of the season, and only find our selves midtable, then I'll probably agree with you but for calling out the style/manager after 4 games I think is unfair.

[Woodley Ram]

On 16/08/2022 at 07:51, Tamworthram said:

Generally, I share your unease about tonight but I would just take issue with your comment about Shrewsbury knowing the division well. Surely that is irrelevant for just a single game. They’re not playing the rest of the division, they’re just playing us. So, if we think our style of football is different to your typical league 1 team then surely that’s as much of a challenge for Shrewsbury as it is for us. Secondly, as has been discussed previously, I don’t think there is a big a difference between The Championship and League 1. Of course, generally speaking, the quality of the players and the style of play is a little different but not massively.

I don't think Shrewsbury would survive in the Championship and I think there is a difference, not for all teams but in general. L1 is far more physical, although to be fair I wouldn't say  Shrewsbury are a dirty team.  There play last night was different to ours, more direct and yes we will meet teams with both styles. They did what I expected, pressed when they could, had 3 at the back and defended as a group. 

If they had played a similar style to us I think they might have lost, instead they adopted a style to get the most out of the game and they almost did.

[Jimbo Ram]

40 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Four times three.

But we could just as easily have lost the Oxford game and drew with Barnsley so lots of ifs and buts...think we should be pleased where we find ourselves....

[Big Trav]

3 hours ago, Topram said:

When are these signings happening 

No clue I’m not hearing anything at the moment 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, Ellafella said:

 

 

Steve Cotterill reflects on tonight's draw with Derby County

https://www.shrewsburytown.com/news/2022/august/steve-cotterill-reflects-on-tonights-draw-with-derby-county/#.YvymF4mdIII.mailto

 

 

Cotterill: "I thought we could've won it. We had the better chances." Only MK Dons (0.5), Bristol Rovers (0.5) and Morcambe (0.4) has a lower xG in L1 last night.

We should be creating more chances from 80% possession in the first half though. Interesting to see that Barkhuizen and Sibley, who most of us felt had the best chances last night don't even appear in the top 3.