Matchday Thread - Shrewsbury Town v Derby County (16/08 19:45)

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Had a read of their match thread to see how they viewed the game and extracted these comments (in timeline order) relevant to us:

 

Derby very much ahead on possession.

 

83% to our 17% currently.
Its what you do with it that counts though.

 

most of that was passing the ball backwards and forwards on the edge of the box , and then eventually they hoof it like we do

 

Town defending really well, only the one real chance for Derby.
Interesting to note that we won the ball in really dangerous areas on the two occasions that we pressed as a team.

 

Good half from town. Derby are good on the ball but our hard work, aggression and organisation has nullified their threat on the whole. We have also looked useful going forward.

 

Loads of possession, but they’ve had 1 chance, (which was brilliant goalkeeping by marosi!)
They’re a bit ponderous at the back, and for some reason their keeper is playing centre half when they have the ball, if we nick it we should shoot on sight..
if Pyke had a bit more belief he’d of had a tap in after a slack pass from them.

 

We were the better team 2nd half

 

Poor from Town first half, pretty much just allowed Derby to dominate. Better second half. 

 

If it wasn't for some poor finishing by udoh we would have got the 3 points.
I was surprised by how poor Derby were. They lacked pace and had little physical presence. They will need more than tidy passing to do well in this league.

 

A slightly challenging watch, with a toothless County side cancelled out by our excellent defending, but offering little going forward ourselves bar the odd moment.

 

We gave Derby too much respect first half, solid enough though albeit they missed a point blank header and Marosi made 1 excellent save
Much better 2nd half, where we saw a bit more of the ball, and created a few good chances ourselves.

 

In fairness, Derby's attempt to con the referee was just as s**t. 0-0 on convincing penalty claims too.

 

Very lucky not to give Derby a penalty at the end, most refs would give that.

 

quite an entertaining game, perhaps seemed better with a full away following than it actually was, lots of corners but not many chances, Marosi as usual kept us in it with Derbys only 2 real chances, and Udoh could have won it in the 95th

 

Derby had the bulk of the possession in the first half, they looked good on the ball two good saves from our kepper, i expected them to have more of a threat in the final third. ironically town had the best chances, leahy , nurse and udoh he really should have done better with his extra time chance. Town kept there shape and stiffled Derby a much better second half by town but the midfield continue to look disjointed, our distribution was poor far to many moves broke down due to a poor pass.a plesant suprise to get a point , i lost count how many Derby subs came on

 

We could, and should, have won it in the last few minutes but it would have been another slight robbery. We defended so, so well but Derby clearly still dominated the game overall, albeit they didn’t often break down our very defensive set up.

 

That was a quality second half performance. Silenced the Derby fans and caused their manager to make four subs.
Udoh won't sleep much tonight over his late miss.

 

25% possession, no subs used and time wasting from about 60 minutes onwards is a bit cheap for me when we're the home side. It felt a bit like we were playing for a lucrative replay in the FA Cup. Derby are probably better than your average recently relegated side at this level by virtue of the fact they dropped out of the Championship on a technicality but I don't exactly expect them to set the world alight on tonight's reckoning. They could pass the hind legs of a donkey but actually when it came to the business end they looked distinctly average. The arrogance of their short-sleeved Neuer wannabe goalkeeper playing pretty much as a sweeper deserved to be punished by that long range Leahy effort.

 

Derby had 81% possession  !!!!!!!! in the first half town ran themselves ragged trying to get the ball as good as Derby are on the ball they created very little and i can only recall two saves. if they wont go back up they are going to have to improve in front of goal.

 

An enjoyable game even if there were a lot of twitchy moments with our rope-a-dope style. Derby's passing was impressive and we put together a few nice moves of our own, but we don't seem to know what to do once we are within twenty yards of goal.

 

Feels like tonight was probably more winnable than Saturday but overall you'd probably have taken 4 pts from these 3 games last Friday so can't complain too much.

 

Really good game to watch and couldn’t take your eyes off it. I think a draw on reflection was about right given Derby’s possession & our chances.
Don’t forget Derby have also had an overhaul so are finding their feet a bit too. I definitely think they’ll be thereabouts at the end of the season.

 

Yes Derby had 70+% of the game, but 30% of that was passing along the back line in their own half. Thoroughly enjoyed the match. Marosi made two excellent saves, but Leahy was man of the match for me.

 

Derby had the lion's share of possession because they spent a lot of it passing sideways and backwards. I thought if we had been more clinical instead of wildly lashing at the ball in front of goal, (get well soon, Aiden), we could have Juan it.

 

when I see people saying it was an entertaining game, I thought completely different, particularly first half where it was a non event and a glorified attack v defenders training session. I completely agree that it felt like we were playing a big Prem side in the FA Cup where we were happy to let them have the ball, they have some decent players and will certainly be up there but they are just a fellow L1 side now and it would have been nice to have got in their faces a bit more, when we showed some attacking intent in the second half we looked dangerous, we just didn't do enough of it.

 

Derby have better ball players than us so if we went head to head and tried to control the ball and out pass them then we would have lost
Cotteril got his tactics pretty much bang on by letting them pass it around their back line and then Salop trigger pressing which resulted in Derby recycling the ball. It worked a treat and nullified them.

 

As for Derby they gave off the air of a team who thought they were far too good for this league but the way they try to play the ball out of their defence in their own penalty area and the ridiculous positioning of their goalkeeper far up the field (making say Dean Henderson look like a line keeper) will cost them quite a few goals this season. However any team that bring quality like McGoldrick off the bench must surely be in the mix for promotion from League 1 at the end of the season.

 

Credit to both teams, Derby came to play football and passed the ball really well.
We defended equally well and posed an attacking threat but without much composure. You couldn't take your eye off the action for a second and we could have won it near the end but a point each was about right.

Lots of sensible and fair comments in there 

[Sparkle]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Cotterill: "I thought we could've won it. We had the better chances." Only MK Dons (0.5), Bristol Rovers (0.5) and Morcambe (0.4) has a lower xG in L1 last night.

We should be creating more chances from 80% possession in the first half though. Interesting to see that Barkhuizen and Sibley, who most of us felt had the best chances last night don't even appear in the top 3.

Is their manager actually talking about something (XG) that doesn’t actually play in a game of football - I am getting to old it seems 

[GB SPORTS]

34 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

But we could just as easily have lost the Oxford game and drew with Barnsley so lots of ifs and buts...think we should be pleased where we find ourselves....

True, i had us down for 5 in the first four, so we're 2 up at the moment.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

But your original comment I quoted was saying (and I paraphrase) - this is the same old, it doesn't work.

We don't need to change the way we play, just make subtle changes to it to capitalise on opportunities. If we were not creating any good opportunities to score, I'd be worried but even last night I would say that Berkhuisen, Stearman and Sibley should have done better with their opportunities.

 

We don't, What needs to be done is convert those chances, 75% and 2/3 chances isn't too good for those that rely on stats, LR has a method of playing...as with most sports if your doing things right but could do a little better watch the video, Take it on board and hope to be better next time around, That can make a difference Players taking on board their responsibilities/opportunities. 

I only saw the highlights on YouTube, Stearman should be hitting the target from the header, How can LR make him score, Did Stearman jump a second to early, Had Stearman lost his direction, Berkhuisens effort was a good block/save from their keeper from an angled effort, Sibley in the 2nd half had an opportunity but his control sent the ball to his left and the shot wasn't what he wanted...could LR improve Sibleys control.

This is what makes average players good and good players great, Being able to convert a chance that's given to you in a game that's short of goalmouth activity.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[bcnram]

I like our passing game and am impressed (mainly) with the way we play it out of defence, even if it does have me muttering 'fuff'n hell' occasionally. I do feel that we have opportunities to shoot and instead we pass. If I was a defender, I would look on a pass wide instead of a shot as a minor victory. By the same token, if a player had taken a shot even if it went wide, it would create another thing to think about as a defender with a prospect of being pulled out of position to try and block the shot next time.

We make defenders lives comfortable.

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Cotterill: "I thought we could've won it. We had the better chances." Only MK Dons (0.5), Bristol Rovers (0.5) and Morcambe (0.4) has a lower xG in L1 last night.

We should be creating more chances from 80% possession in the first half though. Interesting to see that Barkhuizen and Sibley, who most of us felt had the best chances last night don't even appear in the top 3.

And herein lies the problem with XG - I imagine Cashin is the headed opportunity from a corner/cross? That was impossible for him - he isn't tall enough so there was no physical way of getting that shot on target. 

[DerbyRevolution]

i've seen this a few times since last night

''if we'd have scored early it would have been a different game'' 

chicken and egg

we don't look like scoring early because we aren't having any shots in the first 35 mins 

[DavesaRam]

To me last night's game was like going to watch an artist demonstrate the skills of painting, and then  realising right near the end that the only colour on his palette was beige! A quick scurry off-stage and he comes back with a dob of purple, and starts to make something visible against the bland backdrop, but it is all a vit too late and a bit rushed, and the purple lines which began to resemble something bled into the beige, and left the canvas covered in indistinguishable shapes and lines. If only he had found the right colour sooner.

How many times have we said after a match that we finished really well, and then asked why we didn't start like that? And it happened again last night. I understand the patient build up drawing the opposition out, and it did work, but to take advantage we need to take a chance with the pass, we need to gamble on a run, and we need to gamble on getting into the area for the cross. And as soon as we made the changes, all that happened. What if it had happened from the start? And is Smith the new Colin Bell/Steve MacMannaman/Jordan Henderson who kept, or still keep getting picked for England and never actually seem to do anything?

Even so, for what we had only a few weeks ago, and what we've got now it is absolutely brilliant where we are. 

 

But we could be so much further on.

Come On You Rams.   (Notice the different inflection on that phrase!)

[ram59]

2 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

 

Sibley in the 2nd half had an opportunity but his control sent the ball to his left and the shot wasn't what he wanted...could LR improve Sibleys control.

This is what makes average players good and good players great, Being able to convert a chance that's given to you in a game that's short of goalmouth activity.

 

I think that he deliberately sent it to his left, because he is left footed. However, considering that it was his stronger foot, it was a weak finish.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, DerbyRevolution said:

i've seen this a few times since last night

''if we'd have scored early it would have been a different game'' 

chicken and egg

we don't look like scoring early because we aren't having any shots in the first 35 mins 

We did at Charlton and against Barnsley, but I agree we failed to do that last night. 

[Tyler Durden]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Cotterill: "I thought we could've won it. We had the better chances." Only MK Dons (0.5), Bristol Rovers (0.5) and Morcambe (0.4) has a lower xG in L1 last night.

We should be creating more chances from 80% possession in the first half though. Interesting to see that Barkhuizen and Sibley, who most of us felt had the best chances last night don't even appear in the top 3.

Should we though? If half of the 80% of that possession is actually us shuffling the ball from side to side across the defence or to the keeper and back then that's never going to happen unless LR is coaching our player's to start shooting from inside our own half 

[curb]

20 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Can't understand the footballing logic of some posters on here....in one breath they're saying we are boring and pedestrian and safe and the other we need to sign shed loads more strikers....we can have 3 strikers playing for us but if they never get the ball it's totally pointless. 

How many chances did we actually create tonight?

5 or 6

[admira]

[jono]

13 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

I’ve been saying for about three years now that for some reason we have a club full of players who have no interest in scoring a goal on the football field.

Go from keeper to number eleven and tell me which of those players shows a burning desire to get in the box for crosses, who you would expect to win an attacking header and who has more than two shots in a game.

Then if you’ve named one, check out their recent goal scoring record.

There’s no ambition. Everyone leaves the responsibility to everyone else. 

We play the ball around comfortably and that’s tribute to good coaching but we need extra sessions on smashing the ball in the net and perhaps a bigger goal bonus ?

The trouble is, when an opportunity presents itself the players hack at it because they aren’t confident in their ability to put the chance away. Sibley at least puts himself in the position to score but his record speaks for itself. 

Collins was taking up some good positions in his first few games but last night was passively next to stronger defenders. He didn’t fashion himself a single chance.

Not whinging because we obviously have good players and I’m sure the coaching team is acutely aware of the scoring issue and will be trying to address it.

I can’t give an honest and factual response because I wasn’t  there but the highlights to me showed considerable adventure in spirit. Some great blocks from their defence, a goalie who was awake and on our part a hatful of good efforts that on another day would have been goals. I think I agree that we don’t have an imperious bully for a line leader but on a different day the score could have been a solid 1-3 to the Rams. We are now W2 L1 D2 if memory serves. But yes, it would be nice and reassuring to see 2 or 3 in the goals scored column ? .. It hasn’t happened anything like often enough for something like 3 years. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by jono

[jono]

4 hours ago, bcnram said:

I like our passing game and am impressed (mainly) with the way we play it out of defence, even if it does have me muttering 'fuff'n hell' occasionally. I do feel that we have opportunities to shoot and instead we pass. If I was a defender, I would look on a pass wide instead of a shot as a minor victory. By the same token, if a player had taken a shot even if it went wide, it would create another thing to think about as a defender with a prospect of being pulled out of position to try and block the shot next time.

We make defenders lives comfortable.

Good point. What was it they used to say .. To instil fear and doubt in to the hearts of the enemy 

Edited August 17, 2022 by jono

[angieram]

1 hour ago, jono said:

I can’t give an honest and factual response because I wasn’t  there but the highlights to me showed considerable adventure in spirit. Some great blocks from their defence, a goalie who was awake and on our part a hatful of good efforts that on another day would have been goals. I think I agree that we don’t have an imperious bully for a line leader but on a different day the score could have been a solid 1-3 to the Rams. We are now W2 L1 D2 if memory serves. But yes, it would be nice and reassuring to see 2 or 3 in the goals scored column ? .. It hasn’t happened anything like often enough for something like 3 years. 

I think what the highlights don't show, Jono, is that it had taken us so long to create those chances with a slow, deliberate build up  that the Shrewsbury defence was firmly in the best place to defend them.

Shrewsbury did defend very well, but we made it easy for them by not risking the earlier balls to catch them unawares. As they had a bit more of the ball second half, we had those opportunities,  but continues instead with the slow build up.

This says it all, really. Although ironically, some of the better long range balls last night were ones played by Cashin. You can see them on here.

 

[sage]

It wasn't a surprise that we were a little laborious last night. it was the first midweek league game for undercooked players who were already pacing themselves through games.

If we win on Saturday, this will look like a good point.  

[jono]

16 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think what the highlights don't show, Jono, is that it had taken us so long to create those chances with a slow, deliberate build up  that the Shrewsbury defence was firmly in the best place to defend them.

Shrewsbury did defend very well, but we made it easy for them by not risking the earlier balls to catch them unawares. As they had a bit more of the ball second half, we had those opportunities,  but continues instead with the slow build up.

This says it all, really. Although ironically, some of the better long range balls last night were ones played by Cashin. You can see them on here.

 

It’s so frustrating isn’t it Angie? I honestly feel that our players in general have the skill level to play high tempo, first time forward passing. When we do, we cut great big holes but there seems to be a lack of “daring do” or buckle swashing” It wouldn’t be cavalier or reckless because we are good enough individually . Is it lack of confidence or over coaching or something else  ? 

[FlyBritishMidland]

As many have said, we’ll have a lot of games like this.  We also have to remember teams will give an extra 10% when they play is, that’s just the way it is.  Rosenior is 5 competitive games into his managerial career.  Yes, he’s been a coach or assistant but now he has to make the big decisions.  He has squad that’s been together 5 minutes and learning on the job himself.  They need time to gel and he needs time to work out his best 11.

If we were in the Championship we’d be saying it would be good to take stock at the international break.  Instead we’re playing twice a week.  This means we’re learning in a risky environment, with little time to practice and work on things in between.

It’ll take time, patience is needed.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, jono said:

I can’t give an honest and factual response because I wasn’t  there but the highlights to me showed considerable adventure in spirit. Some great blocks from their defence, a goalie who was awake and on our part a hatful of good efforts that on another day would have been goals. I think I agree that we don’t have an imperious bully for a line leader but on a different day the score could have been a solid 1-3 to the Rams. We are now W2 L1 D2 if memory serves. But yes, it would be nice and reassuring to see 2 or 3 in the goals scored column ? .. It hasn’t happened anything like often enough for something like 3 years. 

I was there and overall a draw was about right…..on a different day we could have lost….