Paul Warne

[SSD]

The good news is every time we seem to raise posts on this thread when we play poorly, we tend to pick up again.

I've said my piece on the manager many times, I don't think he's going to take us to another level. League One specialist, brilliant. But having watched the team play every week, his tactical standards have to improve because many people are barely putting up with what's on offer at the minute (which is strange as we're still 2nd). It's nothing to do with wanting "total football." When you're plodding on every match, just being slightly better than teams in the bottom half with much smaller wage budgets, where's the confidence to suggest we can compete in the Championship?

One thing I'll give Paul Warner credit for is against our rivals, on the whole we have competed and played well by setting up on the counter attack. If we do gain promotion, I would look to bring in more pace and some creative midfielders. That could work better against teams who will want 800 passes every game. 

Edited April 12 by SSD

[Comrade 86]

26 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

It is a very admirable quality. I would probably be very happy if Paul operated my Carehome, or the Day Nursery of my Grandchildren. I would probably be very happy too if he was manager of my small underfunded, lower tier football team. Time will tell if his qualities get us up a level, but I remain of the view that we are second in the league in spite of Paul’s tactics and team selection, not because of them.

In fairness and unlike some, you've been entirely consistent in your observations over the course of the season, but taking Wycombe as an example, what was wrong with the team selection? Was it not another occasion where he actually got it right, which I concede, he hasn't always, but was let down by a forward line who lacked composure?

[Nuwtfly]

8 hours ago, Ambitious said:

My concern is that this season we are likely to post one of the highest, if not the highest ever wage bill recorded by a League One team. I think Ipswich 22-23 at £19.7m is currently the highest and that includes promotion bonuses. We could easily go over that with last season's wage bill at £17.2m. I suspect it will likely exceed £20m. 

This has to be it for Warne - make or break. If he doesn't win promotion then we go into another rebuild next season, ok without restrictions, but the club is already losing roughly £10m at this level from just standing still. I just don't see the appetite there for another Warne season - especially given the increases in season tickets which make us one of, if not THE, most expensive in the league. 

We miss out on promotion, which frankly will be through nothing but losing our own bottle and you're charging near on £600 for a season ticket on the West or East stand  next season. It's almost a given that you're going to have to replace managers in order to create a sense of excitement and a fresh start.

The very last thing the club need now is fans to stop turning up to games. 

Totally agree with all of this.

I think the last few games of this season are, for supporters, make or break. If we don't go up I'm not sure there will be many that will want to see another season of League One with Paul Warne. It's been hard enough to watch this season...and we're second!

Whether or not David Clowes sees it that way, though...

[IlsonDerby]

9 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

You might do if you accept that year one was a difficult year for all concerned and if year two some element of improvement (in terms of outcome) was achieved despite some challenges still remaining. if that someone only narrowly failed to hit their key objective (if that’s how it pans out) and you had believe that, with any challenges further reduced, they may achieve their objective in year three.

Now that play offs as a minimum is guaranteed, I am convinced that DC will stick with PW. Let’s hope we get promoted and DC’s faith isn’t put to the test.

I think that due to having one of the highest wage bills in the league last season needed us finishing in the play offs. I think losing in the play offs would have been acceptable. It’s the nature of the drop off that concerned me last year. 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think you want to go off on a tangent. I am not being drawn into player performances this season as I don’t have time this morning. I stick by my point. Paul Warne, in my opinion, has many very good human qualities, but I am not convinced he is anywhere close to being a good football tactician. Further, if he and his coaching team could keep all his players fit, I still don’t think he would know what his best team or formation would be. Not that it would matter too much when, notwithstanding, his instructions would still likely be get the ball out wide, and get your crosses in - don’t fanny about passing through midfield.

But if you are saying we are 2nd inspite of the manager then you are crediting the success to someone else surely?

Aren't they the instructions that have got us to 2nd place in the league?

I do find your argument a bit confusing.

I fully understand that people do not like his brand of football but really don't get it when people say that his management has nothing to do with us being 2nd, I think it's a really weak argument, and if his management had jo bearing on our league position then it seems very strange to criticise him when things don't go well. Seems to be a case of having your cake and eating it.

[Tamworthram]

Just now, IlsonDerby said:

I think that due to having one of the highest wage bills in the league last season needed us finishing in the play offs. I think losing in the play offs would have been acceptable. It’s the nature of the drop off that concerned me last year. 

I don’t agree regarding last season (and presumably neither did DC) given despite our wage budget we were restricted to who we could sign.

[IlsonDerby]

3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I don’t agree regarding last season (and presumably neither did DC) given despite our wage budget we were restricted to who we could sign.

And yet Warne himself labelled it a failure? 
If we didn’t go on the run that we did I’d agree with you but ultimately we were hugely secured in the play offs with about 11 to play. 

[Ram-Alf]

15 hours ago, Crewton said:

Sorry about the link to a crappy Reach website, but this article covers it. IIRC Clowes gave the same reasons shortly after the decision was made, either to RD or at the first fans forum.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/a-bridge-far-derby-county-8567066?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

Liam was close, Closer than you think" quote from David Clowes ☺️

 

[Eaststander7]

Three games to the end of the season. We’re SECOND in the league. Save all your whinging and moaning until the end of the season. Maybe just maybe get behind the team and let’s see what happens eh! Jeeeez give me strength. So many drama queens on here. 

[jimtastic56]

19 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Totally agree with all of this.

I think the last few games of this season are, for supporters, make or break. If we don't go up I'm not sure there will be many that will want to see another season of League One with Paul Warne. It's been hard enough to watch this season...and we're second!

Whether or not David Clowes sees it that way, though...

I have backed Paul Warne all season - while not always being impressed.He will get us over the line .  If David Clowes loves him so much , he will find the money for a massive re-build in the Summer . However if we don’t get 4 wins in the first 10 Championship fixtures the fans will be looking for blood .

[Chester40]

9 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

In fairness and unlike some, you've been entirely consistent in your observations over the course of the season, but taking Wycombe as an example, what was wrong with the team selection? Was it not another occasion where he actually got it right, which I concede, he hasn't always, but was let down by a forward line who lacked composure?

I agree with your sentiments and you raise an interesting point.  I think with what we had available. ..he picked the right team. And in hindsight we were f***ing terrible.  

So where does that leave us.

Scratching my head. I think when it's a battle with teams who come onto us, or when our players are allowed to do what they want, they are good individual players, who work hard and for this level we have better than average skill levels and that generally sees us through. When we come up against teams who set up to negate us we have simple plans that if unsuccessful can unravel and then we look really ordinary,  lacking in runs/movement/passing that give us good opportunities to score. We start to force the same passes more and more, overhit them, become desperate with decision making and run into blind alleys as no one is making any different runs. 

That probably is a management issue? Not giving them the structure where players overlap,  pop up in different positions,  beat their man with a 1-2.... Cashin's long diagonal ball is as revolutionary as it gets. Constantly heading down the wing to two out or form players instead of turning inside and releasing the passes that Smith made to NML was noticeable on Tue. 

Earlier in the season IMO we weren't as poor as lots of fans were making out. We have forced our way to 2nd so Warne deserves a chance to see it through,  but our poor performances are getting worse which is massively worrying as he should be getting a handle on where things need to change and it feels like the opposite. 

I don't understand how professionals could look so clueless, abject and unable to do the basics. They were clearly trying but they appear too rigid and uninspired which is the coaching side of things that appears to be at fault??

Anyway..I'm just waffling and waffling on and clearing my brain of the huge frustration I felt on Tue.. before going again tomorrow.

Tis the life of a Derby fan.

[Curtains]

22 minutes ago, Eaststander7 said:

Three games to the end of the season. We’re SECOND in the league. Save all your whinging and moaning until the end of the season. Maybe just maybe get behind the team and let’s see what happens eh! Jeeeez give me strength. So many drama queens on here. 

Every Derby fan is behind the team but some see it in different ways. 
 

You can be disappointed with the Northampton and Wycombe results and be happy we are 2nd but we are making it such hard work of it all.  
I don’t enjoy this League sorry 

PS. Drama queens !

You might be one if we miss out which I hope we don’t. 
 

Edited April 12 by Curtains
Added

[Curtains]

11 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

I agree with your sentiments and you raise an interesting point.  I think with what we had available. ..he picked the right team. And in hindsight we were f***ing terrible.  

So where does that leave us.

Scratching my head. I think when it's a battle with teams who come onto us, or when our players are allowed to do what they want, they are good individual players, who work hard and for this level we have better than average skill levels and that generally sees us through. When we come up against teams who set up to negate us we have simple plans that if unsuccessful can unravel and then we look really ordinary,  lacking in runs/movement/passing that give us good opportunities to score. We start to force the same passes more and more, overhit them, become desperate with decision making and run into blind alleys as no one is making any different runs. 

That probably is a management issue? Not giving them the structure where players overlap,  pop up in different positions,  beat their man with a 1-2.... Cashin's long diagonal ball is as revolutionary as it gets. Constantly heading down the wing to two out or form players instead of turning inside and releasing the passes that Smith made to NML was noticeable on Tue. 

Earlier in the season IMO we weren't as poor as lots of fans were making out. We have forced our way to 2nd so Warne deserves a chance to see it through,  but our poor performances are getting worse which is massively worrying as he should be getting a handle on where things need to change and it feels like the opposite. 

I don't understand how professionals could look so clueless, abject and unable to do the basics. They were clearly trying but they appear too rigid and uninspired which is the coaching side of things that appears to be at fault??

Anyway..I'm just waffling and waffling on and clearing my brain of the huge frustration I felt on Tue.. before going again tomorrow.

Tis the life of a Derby fan.

Tuesday was hugely disappointing and we have to go again.  

I hope it isn’t too late for 2nd 

I hope Warne can get us promotion but he’s making hard work of it. 

Edited April 12 by Curtains

[Tamworthram]

1 minute ago, IlsonDerby said:

And yet Warne himself labelled it a failure? 
If we didn’t go on the run that we did I’d agree with you but ultimately we were hugely secured in the play offs with about 11 to play. 

What did you want him to say? “We didn’t get in the play offs but that’s OK, we’ll go again next year”?

There aren’t many industries that are cut throat enough (and football is one of the most cut throat) to see an individual sacked for achieving an improvement (in terms of results) in year 2 from year 1 but still narrowly failing to hit a key objective. I know some people will point to what happened to Darren Moore and John Eustace but I don’t think many of us would entirely agree with their sackings.

With 11 games remaining we were 4 points clear of Wycombe and 7 points clear of eventual play off achievers Posh but they both had a game in hand. I wouldn’t describe that as “hugely secure” given there were 33 points still on the table.

[Foreveram]

9 hours ago, Ambitious said:

My concern is that this season we are likely to post one of the highest, if not the highest ever wage bill recorded by a League One team. I think Ipswich 22-23 at £19.7m is currently the highest and that includes promotion bonuses. We could easily go over that with last season's wage bill at £17.2m. I suspect it will likely exceed £20m. 

This has to be it for Warne - make or break. If he doesn't win promotion then we go into another rebuild next season, ok without restrictions, but the club is already losing roughly £10m at this level from just standing still. I just don't see the appetite there for another Warne season - especially given the increases in season tickets which make us one of, if not THE, most expensive in the league. 

We miss out on promotion, which frankly will be through nothing but losing our own bottle and you're charging near on £600 for a season ticket on the West or East stand  next season. It's almost a given that you're going to have to replace managers in order to create a sense of excitement and a fresh start.

The very last thing the club need now is fans to stop turning up to games. 

Where do you get near on £600, the dearest ticket is £537 with no discount.

A ten year discount for a seat in the East and West stand is £465 and a seat in the North and South stands with a ten year discount is £345, which is a long way from £600.

[TomTom92]

The biggest concern at the moment is that every match seems to be a real battle.

I think maybe earlier in the season when the pressure was off, Warne's simple tactics allowed us to win some games with ease. However the last 5/6 have been gruellers. 

If you have to make an excuse you could point it to Gayle getting injured when we were flying after a 3-0 and 2-1 win respectively. 

Everything for me is down to how we finish. Promotion? Happy days he's earnt his money and deserves a crack at the championship. Failure? In my book he needs to go.

The only two saving graces Warne has is that the players seem to love him and if we brought in someone new, they'd need to assess the squad for a month before starting our transfer business.

[trappatoni]

16 hours ago, Crewton said:

Sorry about the link to a crappy Reach website, but this article covers it. IIRC Clowes gave the same reasons shortly after the decision was made, either to RD or at the first fans forum.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/a-bridge-far-derby-county-8567066?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

Ok yeah sorry I did know that - I assumed you were hinting that there were some other rumoured reasons - my mistake. 

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

How come they weren't in his final part season at Rotherham?

There seems to be an increasing narrative on here that Warne's last stint in the Championship was a success & somehow negates the 3 relegations he'd previously suffered at that level.

Below is the Championship table as at 17th September 2022 - 5 days before he left Rotherham for Derby. Rotherham were in 8th place & had won 3 out of 9 games - all at home. A decent start sure but reality is they were still only 4 points above the bottom 3 & very far from demonstrating they would have been able to survive that full season under Warne.

To show just how this table is misleading in predicting performance over a full season, Wigan were only one point behind Rotherham at that stage but were ultimately comfortably relegated (even if they hadn't been deducted 6 points). Same situation with Reading who sit in 3rd at this stage with 18 points but only accrued another 32 points on the pitch from the last 36 games. On the flip side, Coventry sit bottom here but ended up in the playoff final.

I would also ponder the question that if Rotherham had looked so strong at that point, why would he have considered dropping a division & not wait for an offer from a bigger fellow Championship club? That's what Steven Schumacher did this year swapping another small yo/yo club in Plymouth for a better resourced gig at Stoke.

Edited April 12 by LeedsCityRam

[YorkshireRam]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I remain of the view that we are second in the league in spite of Paul’s tactics and team selection, not because of them.

This doesn't really make sense. A team can't achieve consistent success over the course of a 46 game season by going against the tactics implemented by the manager. So any success achieved by the team as a whole, by proxy, also includes the manager.

Valid criticism of Warne is perfectly fine, but stuff like this I find baffling. You can't just overlook or dismiss the part Warne's played in our success, whilst simultaneously attributing most of our failings on him. Credit has to go both ways.

[Foreveram]

14 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

There seems to be an increasing narrative on here that Warne's last stint in the Championship was a success & somehow negates the 3 relegations he'd previously suffered at that level.

Below is the Championship table as at 17th September 2022 - 5 days before he left Rotherham for Derby. Rotherham were in 8th place & had won 3 out of 9 games - all at home. A decent start sure but reality is they were still only 4 points above the bottom 3 & very far from demonstrating they would have been able to survive that full season under Warne.

To show just how this table is misleading in predicting performance over a full season, Wigan were only one point behind Rotherham at that stage but were ultimately comfortably relegated (even if they hadn't been deducted 6 points). Same situation with Reading who sit in 3rd at this stage with 18 points but only accrued another 32 points on the pitch from the last 36 games. On the flip side, Coventry sit bottom here but ended up in the playoff final.

I would also ponder the question that if Rotherham had looked so strong at that point, why would he have considered dropping a division & not wait for an offer from a bigger fellow Championship club? That's what Steven Schumacher did this year swapping another small yo/yo club in Plymouth for a better resourced gig at Stoke.

Also 4 points from third, with a game in hand.