Does Warne deserve the vitriol aimed at him?

[MadAmster]

Derby has always had scapegoats when things go pear shaped. Currently it's Warne and Bird getting the stick with Hourihane a close 3rd. Collins has been let of the hook somewhat and Sibs appears to be taking his place in the firing line. While some of the comments are valid on a single game level, they why is never looked at. A player will have an off day yet when he does, he's suddenly bloody useless. I have ones I'm not fond of. Ward and Wilson are, IMO, good wingbacks. Unfortunately for them, they have been regularly played at full back. Doesn't suddenly mean they have become useless overnight, just that they have been used in the "wrong" way and that is not the player's fault. That brings me back to Sibs... Only long spell he's had in any one role was at left back last season and he did well. What would happen if he got a run at #10? We'll never know.

[bcnram]

I don’t like him as a manager, I don’t like the way that his football is often being played, resulting in us continually giving the ball to the opposition to play with; it drives me nuts. 
 

When we play football and retain possession, we are a much better side. We are capable of that but we don’t see it enough. 
 

I am not critical of him taking the job, but tactically he is outdone by others too many times. I am baffled by the decision of our sole owner to offer the job to him. 

[KnowledgeisPorridge]

He’s either gone in the summer if we don’t go up or gone by Christmas.  

To be honest, even if we managed to get promoted this season, I’d thank him and still move him aside. 

He really isn’t all that. I think Barker is probably the tactics guy and Warne is just a quirky mouthpiece.

Can’t imagine any of the senior players buying into PW at all. 

Edited January 24 by KnowledgeisPorridge

[R@M]

Just no. 
 

Far too many have delusions of grandeur….we are where we are, with what we have because we deserve to be.  The structure of the CBT deal shows we still haven’t got options. 
 

Bigger clubs than us spent longer in L1 with less constraints. 

[R@M]

19 minutes ago, bcnram said:

I don’t like him as a manager, I don’t like the way that his football is often being played, resulting in us continually giving the ball to the opposition to play with; it drives me nuts. 
 

When we play football and retain possession, we are a much better side. We are capable of that but we don’t see it enough. 
 

I am not critical of him taking the job, but tactically he is outdone by others too many times. I am baffled by the decision of our sole owner to offer the job to him. 

Possession stats alone over the last 3 matches clearly show this not to be the case. 

[bcnram]

11 minutes ago, R@M said:

Possession stats alone over the last 3 matches clearly show this not to be the case. 

On their own they mean nothing. Give me a genuine stat for how many times we lose the ball. Or, give me a stat that counts the number of consecutive passes moving forwards. By forwards, I mean the end result being further up the pitch, so passing back within the movement is fine, so long as we don't carelessly and lazily give possession away needlessly.

[Premier ram]

Honest answer   NO

[jono]

I must be a bit odd (according to some views on here ) 

I actually like his summaries post match. Honest realistic, doesn’t want to slag players but will always drop a hint tempered by recognising players are human. As to results, we aren’t running away with as some think we should but we are at it and serious challengers. Then you get to style of play. Sometimes quite dynamic, sometimes a bit predictable. We don’t have a midfield balance or a general. That said, the hit it wide is because that is where our line breakers are strongest. If Wash and/or Waggy were fit we could well see more from the middle or the channels. 
another poster suggested we only had good results because we have batter players. I disagree. Some of our players have elevated natural skills that come out on the best of days but the rest of the time misplace passes, fail to control like so many others. Those leading lights have all passed their peaks and face a match by match battle against younger legs on average. I like Warne. Can’t stand the vitriol, don’t think he’s a genius but he’s a good manager. Derby need a hot shot in the front line and a dominating midfielder. We aren’t failing or playing bad stuff because of Warne. I reckon he’s doing a good job with what he’s got. 

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, jono said:

I must be a bit odd (according to some views on here ) 

I actually like his summaries post match. Honest realistic, doesn’t want to slag players but will always drop a hint tempered by recognising players are human. As to results, we aren’t running away with as some think we should but we are at it and serious challengers. Then you get to style of play. Sometimes quite dynamic, sometimes a bit predictable. We don’t have a midfield balance or a general. That said, the hit it wide is because that is where our line breakers are strongest. If Wash and/or Waggy were fit we could well see more from the middle or the channels. 
another poster suggested we only had good results because we have batter players. I disagree. Some of our players have elevated natural skills that come out on the best of days but the rest of the time misplace passes, fail to control like so many others. Those leading lights have all passed their peaks and face a match by match battle against younger legs on average. I like Warne. Can’t stand the vitriol, don’t think he’s a genius but he’s a good manager. Derby need a hot shot in the front line and a dominating midfielder. We aren’t failing or playing bad stuff because of Warne. I reckon he’s doing a good job with what he’s got. 

Yeah, I feel he’s pretty balanced in his interviews. I don’t like it when he builds players up and knocks them down within the same sentence but that’s just me 

We’re close to the top and until recently on a rich vein of form so he can’t afford to slag them off too much, lest confidence suffers.

It’s not being knocked down that’s important. It’s what you do next.

[S8TY]

I’ve said it before but it is not Warnes fault this job was his big chance but he’s not the right choice never was 

if it was because he has a good record of getting promoted so  have many others …Warnock for example 

The reset with limited funds gave us a chance to build with youngsters and the odd bit of experience but rarely do we see youngsters given a chance 

I want sustainability not just get out of L1 …the football we see is not great and I do believe Warne was not the right choice but I do like him as a person and don’t think personal insults are necessary ….i do wonder if Clowes ever regrets changing Rosenior because I firmly believe we’d be top of the league if he’d stayed but yes the football wouldn’t had pleased everyone. 
But give me controlled football every day of the week over end to end basketball type matches that could go either way …

[sage]

3 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

What you've said is fine haha, I was being deliberately flippant because I think a fair few people massively overreact about Warne when we lose a game. 

I'm just sick of reading the 'PE Teacher' comments and similar, from people literally not even qualified to lace up his boots. I acknowledge he knows far more about football than I ever will, this self awareness seems to be severely lacking in some.

They're not even qualified to be a PE Teacher 

[Crewton]

16 minutes ago, S8TY said:

if it was because he has a good record of getting promoted so  have many others …Warnock for example 

Out of interest, which out of work managers, or managers not currently working at a higher level than L1 have as good a record of getting promotion?

[Matlock Old Ram]

No he doesn’t !!

[May Contain Nuts]

What exactly are people classing as vitriol (where's the line?), and how many people are actually giving it out?

I'd hate to think people take anything I've said about him as vitriol / abuse because it's never intended as such.

Edited January 24 by May Contain Nuts

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Does Warne deserve vitriol? Of course not.

Is it fair to criticise (without being abusive) what people may consider flaws in his management style and performance levels of the team? Absolutely.

Edited January 24 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[ramit]

I think some of the over criticism sprouts from wishing for a different style of play that was but is no longer the reality.  That kind of attitude sets a fan up for constant disappointment, while inducing attempts to criticize several aspects of current tactics and team philosophy with all guns pointed at Warne, of course.  Constantly mentioning how this or that former manager had us playing is neither here nor there, is not helpful input as it is no longer the reality.  We've got what we've got, why not make the best of that, eh?

I only see the highlights and so I follow the match day thread and many a game we end up winning comfortably, the negativity displayed is quite astounding, doom apparently just around the corner.  Then when we win comes the Never In Doubt comment that always brings a chuckle from me at least.

[Ram-Alf]

3 hours ago, Dcfcsr92 said:

I know what you mean, i think sometimes people try too hard to be nice ( i think personally he trying too hard to be nice)

Troy Deeney lost his job for calling out a player in public, PW in his post match interview mentioned things were said in the changing room but will stay there.

Would a Warnock or a Steve Smith be a better shout as they look to be a more aggressive manager when on the touchline, Is PW getting the best out of this squad...what with his "why wall" giving a mug for their 1st goal, Texting nice messages to players.

He comes across as a nice guy that wants to be liked 🤷‍♂️ but a manager needs to set himself away from the players...imo, We live in an age  where being "negative" towards players is frowned upon, Last year he pointed to 1 or 2 players that may have had their heads turned when results weren't going our way, PW looked a "beaten man", Now look at the photo of him winning the manager of the month award...a beaming smile.

I'm yet to be convinced that he's either a good manager or a bad manager, What he did at Rotherham has long gone, We'll find out how good he is come May when either we go up in 1st or 2nd place or win the play offs until then PW is here to stay

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, KnowledgeisPorridge said:

He’s either gone in the summer if we don’t go up or gone by Christmas.  

To be honest, even if we managed to get promoted this season, I’d thank him and still move him aside. 

He really isn’t all that. I think Barker is probably the tactics guy and Warne is just a quirky mouthpiece.

Can’t imagine any of the senior players buying into PW at all. 

So even if he got us promoted you'd still still get rid? 

I'm not convinced yet that he'd be the right man to see us prosper (or at least survive comfortably initially) in the Championship but surely he'd deserve the chance if he got us there. It feels a bit brutal to get rid of a manager who got you promoted.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

So even if he got us promoted you'd still still get rid? 

I'm not convinced yet that he'd be the right man to see us prosper (or at least survive comfortably initially) in the Championship but surely he'd deserve the chance if he got us there. It feels a bit brutal to get rid of a manager who got you promoted.

How did it feel to ditch Rosenior who stayed with the Club when Blackpool 'beckoned' perhaps in the hope of the Derby job and started the season quite well? FWIW I'd be brutal and get rid now, we're no better now (worse even) than when Warne took over. 😄

Edited January 24 by RoyMac5

[MackworthRamIsGod]

6 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

If you look at Warne's record, it's actually not that bad.

Last season we came within a kippers dick of making the playoffs after what was possibly the most turbulent time in the club's history.

And last night, we could have gone top, and yet half the board would be happy to see the guy fired.

Does anybody ever remember that level of vitriol and animosity toward a manager who didn't have us struggling? And struggling badly.

Other than possibly Dave Mackay for a short period and entirely other reasons, I cannot remember anything like it.

For some while, I just thought it was Derby fans being entitled, but after conversations with @Eatonram, it seems like we're pretty bad every game and winning in spite of ourselves rather than because of ourselves.

I have to admit that I rarely get to see Derby play these days, so I base a lot of my opinions either on highlights or on what I read. As such, I accept that 90% of posters on this forum are better informed than me.

So, does he deserve all this piling on, or should we be sticking by him?

 

He does deserve a fair amount.

Like you say, we came within a kippers dick of the playoffs last year. And we would have done had Warne strengthened in January. After talking about January being like Christmas shopping and speaking about improving the squad...and then not doing so.

His tactics are poor, if non-existent, he dropped our number 1 keeper, possibly our most solid keeper in terms of reliability, since Bywater.

He has no interest in the academy. Brown, Robinson, Weston should all have been integrated into this team by now.

This is possibly the easiest league 1 there will be for years, with no Ipswich and Sheff Wed's calibre clubs, so we should be taking the league by the scruff and getting out...but these last few games suggest we may struggle again.

Paul Warne isn't the worse manager we have had, but he isn't good for our long term success.