Does Warne deserve the vitriol aimed at him?

[Nuwtfly]

Overall, no. The league table doesn't lie.

But we also shouldn't pretend that the football has been fantastic and that he hasn't made some perplexing decisions at times. 

[Tamworthram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

How did it feel to ditch Rosenior who stayed with the Club when Blackpool 'beckoned' perhaps in the hope of the Derby job and started the season quite well?

Presumably, considering you think LR was harshly treated (I believe that's what you believe) you agree that it would be brutal to get rid of PW if he got us promoted?

I'm not saying it was right to not appoint LR but there is a subtle difference. As has been discussed in depth, LR was never appointed manager and was only ever caretaker (or whatever term the club used at the time). 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Presumably, considering you think LR was harshly treated (I believe that's what you believe) you agree that it would be brutal to get rid of PW if he got us promoted?

I'm not saying it was right to not appoint LR but there is a subtle difference. As has been discussed in depth, LR was never appointed manager and was only ever caretaker (or whatever term the club used at the time). 

The Rosenior decision was still a 'brutal' one, and I think that shows that if necessary another 'brutal' decision could easily be made. 

[Crewton]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did it feel to ditch Rosenior who stayed with the Club when Blackpool 'beckoned' perhaps in the hope of the Derby job and started the season quite well? FWIW I'd be brutal and get rid now, we're no better now (worse even) than when Warne took over. 😄

Rosenior didn't take the Blackpool job because he failed to get assurances about transfer funds, not because he couldn't bear to leave Derby. Plus, he was Rooney's assistant and had never been nr.1 before. Once Clowes decided he wasn't the right guy for the job, he was always going to leave - didn't Clowes actually offer him a different role if he wanted to stay at the club?

[Tamworthram]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

The Rosenior decision was still a 'brutal' one, and I think that shows that if necessary another 'brutal' decision could easily be made. 

But do you think it would be brutal? Please answer the question, you sound like a politician.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Crewton said:

Rosenior didn't take the Blackpool job because he failed to get assurances about transfer funds, not because he couldn't bear to leave Derby. Plus, he was Rooney's assistant and had never been nr.1 before. Once Clowes decided he wasn't the right guy for the job, he was always going to leave - didn't Clowes actually offer him a different role if he wanted to stay at the club?

I said: "How did it feel to ditch Rosenior who stayed with the Club when Blackpool 'beckoned' perhaps in the hope of the Derby job and started the season quite well? FWIW I'd be brutal and get rid now, we're no better now (worse even) than when Warne took over. "

The point was he'd been offered the Blackpool post, not that he turned it down. He'd shown what it was believed he could be capable of. After that to be offered a backroom job at Derby was always going to be a non-starter.

Again, the point was a 'brutal' decision was made. So why be surprised if another such was made, I wouldn't be. As I said Warne's appointment was obviously seen as 'for the good of the Club'. So I'm sure his sacking could easily be similarly rationalised. 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

But do you think it would be brutal? Please answer the question, you sound like a politician.

Well obviously I do. I've said so more than once. 😄 It would be a brutal decision to get rid of Warne if he got us promoted. But for the 'good of the Club' it would be for the best.

[YorkshireRam]

17 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

What exactly are people classing as vitriol (where's the line?), and how many people are actually giving it out?

I'd hate to think people take anything I've said about him as vitriol / abuse because it's never intended as such.

For me there's 2 strands to this: the vitriolic insults, which is far more prevalent on twitter than on here, and then generally being overly-critical, which is as common on here as anywhere. There does seem to be some that just wait for a loss, and then twist everything to somehow be Warne's fault- without giving him any credit for the wins/good form between.

Last night we witnessed some seriously abject individual performances from the players, yet some on here are only blaming Warne. I don't believe that's because they're incapable of viewing what's happening in front of them, but because they've got stuck in a confirmation bias loop where they only register facts if it suits their stance that Warne is the problem. 

[TomTom92]

As soon as Warne was appointed there seemed to be one too many fans upset with the decision. Maybe out of love for LR who does appear to charm everyone he meets and the fact he stuck with us during the bad times. Plus Warne from Rotherham is not really sexy. 
 
Personally I thought it was a good appointment and despite the issues last season I was still hopeful this season. 
 
I wasn’t impressed with our summer recruitment in the forward areas and after Stevenage I wanted him gone. 
 
Since then to his credit he’s turned us around and got us in a fair position. I guess the problem is A) we capitulated last season with him at the helm so what’s stopping that happening again? B) The football is pretty boring. Which credit to Derby fans they shunned Rowett for the same thing. 
 
I don’t think Warne’s a bad manager and he’s clearly a nice guy. But whether he’s the right man for us remains to be seen. I think if he does manage to stumble us up to the championship he’ll be out of a job by Christmas.

Personally if we don’t go up this year I’d want him gone and give somebody else a chance.

To answer your question he deserves criticism when the players drop stinkers like last night. But should he be demeaned to a PE teacher etc? No.

Edited January 24 by TomTom92

[oodledoodle]

9 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

As soon as Warne was appointed there seemed to be one too many fans upset with the decision. Maybe out of love for LR who does appear to charm everyone he meets and the fact he stuck with us during the bad times. Plus Warne from Rotherham is not really sexy. 
 
Personally I thought it was a good appointment and despite the issues last season I was still hopeful this season. 
 
I wasn’t impressed with our summer recruitment in the forward areas and after Stevenage I wanted him gone. 
 
Since then to his credit he’s turned us around and got us in a fair position. I guess the problem is A) we capitulated last season with him at the helm so what’s stopping that happening again? B) The football is pretty boring. Which credit to Derby fans they shunned Rowett for the same thing. 
 
I don’t think Warne’s a bad manager and he’s clearly a nice guy. But whether he’s the right man for us remains to be seen. I think if he does manage to stumble us up to the championship he’ll be out of a job by Christmas.

Personally if we don’t go up this year I’d want him gone and give somebody else a chance.

To answer your question he deserves criticism when the players drop stinkers like last night. But should he be demeaned to a PE teacher etc? No.

Totally agree with all that. Put it better than I ever could.

[Ram-Alf]

Deleted

Crewton posted the same re offered another job at DCFC 

Edited January 24 by Ram-Alf

[Jimbo Ram]

7 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

If you look at Warne's record, it's actually not that bad.

Last season we came within a kippers dick of making the playoffs after what was possibly the most turbulent time in the club's history.

And last night, we could have gone top, and yet half the board would be happy to see the guy fired.

Does anybody ever remember that level of vitriol and animosity toward a manager who didn't have us struggling? And struggling badly.

Other than possibly Dave Mackay for a short period and entirely other reasons, I cannot remember anything like it.

For some while, I just thought it was Derby fans being entitled, but after conversations with @Eatonram, it seems like we're pretty bad every game and winning in spite of ourselves rather than because of ourselves.

I have to admit that I rarely get to see Derby play these days, so I base a lot of my opinions either on highlights or on what I read. As such, I accept that 90% of posters on this forum are better informed than me.

So, does he deserve all this piling on, or should we be sticking by him?

 

Has he had vitriolic abuse on this forum? The odd comment but mainly some informed views.

[Tyler Durden]

I genuinely think Warne is the focal point of the angst of a number of supporters who still have not come to terms with the fact we have been a League 1 club for 2 consecutive seasons and find it hard to accept this. 

Our league attendances only reinforce this frustration that we are too good for this League - it's like a certain section of fans are still in denial and vent their spleen at Warne for our current ongoing league position as they can't blame or have got tired of blaming Mel Morris so move onto the next scapegoat. 

I wonder what other fans think of us if they came on this forum and saw some of the post match comments given we could have gone top with the right result last night, it's truly bizarre. 

[Jourdan]

Absolutely not.

We are a top six side with a fighting chance of automatic promotion. While that is still possible, we should get behind the manager and the team.

We always knew we would probably have to finish above at least two of Bolton, Barnsley and Peterborough to get promoted this season and as the season has progressed, that is still the measure and still the challenge.

However it was never going to be easy or straightforward. Teams rarely stand still. Bolton look solid and efficient as ever. Peterborough are arguably better than last season. Barnsley are starting to collect themselves again as they did in the second half of last season. Add Portsmouth and Oxford who were the fast starters and are still in the mix and that adds another layer of difficulty.

I think we have seen some good and some bad when it comes to Warne and the team.  Games where it clicks and we look good and games where it doesn’t. We have seen a mixture of each within one half and within one game too. This is typical of all teams at this level, no matter the style of play or the philosophy.

Peterborough - arguably the best footballing side in the league - have dropped points in 11 games, only one fewer than us. If they win their game in hand, they will have won one more than us, only one greater than us.

So as much as people want to talk about style and talk down the manager and his supposed lack of tactics and suggest his philosophy is uncultured and unrefined, there is nothing to say a different manager with a different philosophy would be far more effective.

[FlyBritishMidland]

To answer the OP, no he doesn’t deserve the vitriol, although I suspect there’s more of that on Twitter.  There is the odd comment about PE teacher, etc on here and I do think that’s uncalled for.  Does he deserve criticism, yes if performances and results don’t go to plan.  Preferably constructive rather than a one-liner with no substance.

Now we’ve lost a game, we’re again seeing the odd comment about his why wall, good people, etc.  Again, I think it’s uncalled for.  I’ve done leadership training led by a lot of sports people and tools and techniques such as why walls, belief walls, etc are common in sport.  Most sports, individual and team use these provide purpose, confidence, etc.  And as for good people, I watched an interview with Thomas Frank on Sky and he was asked what he looked for and first of all it’s good people.  Gary Rowett has a podcast  and he discussed the transfer window.  Again, he came back to good characters and people.  If it’s a weakness, Warne is probably too honest in actually talking about these in a way other managers don’t so it be ones a stick to beat him with.

Most posters are balanced but occasionally it goes over the top.  As someone said to me a few years ago, don’t go overboard with the highs and don’t get too down about the lows.

[vonwright]

I think promotion is a completely reasonable expectation for a club with our resources, facilities, and the squad left by Rosenior: a demanding but far from impossible expectation. 

Failing that, you might accept a manager who managed to build a squad, and tactics, that gave you great confidence in future success. 

Personally, Warne's signings and tactics don't fill me with any great confidence about this season or any future season but I would be very happy to be proven wrong. 

I think this view is much more common than the 'vitriol' mentioned above. 

[Jourdan]

5 minutes ago, vonwright said:

I think promotion is a completely reasonable expectation for a club with our resources, facilities, and the squad left by Rosenior: a demanding but far from impossible expectation. 

Failing that, you might accept a manager who managed to build a squad, and tactics, that gave you great confidence in future success. 

Personally, Warne's signings and tactics don't fill me with any great confidence about this season or any future season but I would be very happy to be proven wrong. 

I think this view is much more common than the 'vitriol' mentioned above. 

You say his signings don’t fill you with confidence but how many managers get all of their signings right?

I see some good signs with hopefully more to come from some of the players. Players sign two or three year contracts for a reason.

Nyambe and Nelson have been very reliable. Wilson is a very exciting prospect. Washington and Waghorn contributed solidly before getting injured. Blackett Taylor could be a revelation.

The likes of Ward, Fornah, Elder and Bradley haven’t established themselves in the team yet but in reality they have been competing to displace some of our most trusted players (Bird, Hourihane, Smith, Mendez Laing, Cashin and Forsyth) but when you look at contracts, you can see there are going to be changes over the summer, and there will be an opportunity for them take on greater importance and seize the moment.

[vonwright]

20 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You say his signings don’t fill you with confidence but how many managers get all of their signings right?

I see some good signs with hopefully more to come from some of the players. Players sign two or three year contracts for a reason.

Nyambe and Nelson have been very reliable. Wilson is a very exciting prospect. Washington and Waghorn contributed solidly before getting injured. Blackett Taylor could be a revelation.

The likes of Ward, Fornah, Elder and Bradley haven’t established themselves in the team yet but in reality they have been competing to displace some of our most trusted players (Bird, Hourihane, Smith, Mendez Laing, Cashin and Forsyth) but when you look at contracts, you can see there are going to be changes over the summer, and there will be an opportunity for them take on greater importance and seize the moment.

The bar he needs to clear isn't 'getting them all right'. That would be unreasonable. 

I think he's had too many misses and not enough hits. Even Nyambe (a hit) was the third right back he signed. Presumably because he realised his two previous signings weren't up to the job (they weren't helped by his complete u-turn on preferred formation after he'd spent all the money).

I guess we disagree as to whether big-money signings like Bradley, Ward, Elder, Washington are indeed 'bedding in', or if they represent bad business. Whether Fornah just needs time or will forever be lightweight and error prone. Personally I think they've been here long enough to form a reasonable view of their likely value, and the overall picture is poor. Good players often come in and make an immediate impact - because they are good players. At any rate, they tend to have a lot more impact than this. 

Edited January 24 by vonwright

[Jourdan]

5 minutes ago, vonwright said:

The bar he needs to clear isn't 'getting them all right'. That would be unreasonable. 

I think he's had too many misses and not enough hits. Even Nyambe (a hit) was the third right back he signed. Presumably because he realised his two previous signings weren't up to the job (they weren't helped by his complete u-turn on preferred formation after he'd spent all the money).

I guess we disagree as to whether big-money signings like Bradley, Ward, Elder, Washington are indeed 'bedding in', or if they represent bad business. Whether Fornah just needs time or will forever be lightweight and error prone. Personally I think they've been here long enough to form a reasonable view of their likely value, and the overall picture is poor. Good players often come in and make an immediate impact - because they are good players. At any rate, they tend to have a lot more impact than this. 

How can you class what are mainly free or nominal transfers as big-money signings when we are not privy to the wages, bonuses, or the agents fees being paid?

Yes, good players can come in and make an immediate impact. However many players need six months to a year before they find  their feet, understand their role, settle and start to perform. Many good players tend to look improved in their second year with a team, learning from the previous year.

The overall picture is only poor if your mind is made up. Keep an open mind and maybe some of these poor signings will surprise you.

[vonwright]

21 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

How can you class what are mainly free or nominal transfers as big-money signings when we are not privy to the wages, bonuses, or the agents fees being paid?

Yes, good players can come in and make an immediate impact. However many players need six months to a year before they find  their feet, understand their role, settle and start to perform. Many good players tend to look improved in their second year with a team, learning from the previous year.

The overall picture is only poor if your mind is made up. Keep an open mind and maybe some of these poor signings will surprise you.

Of course they might come good. Any player might come good after any length of time. But also: they might not. The question is what's a reasonable judgment after a reasonable length of time.

Enough time has passed to say that as things stand a lot of Warne's signings look pretty poor. The more time that passes without them having much impact the stronger that conclusion will be. Particularly when you consider part of the reason for signing 'seasoned pros', 'good characters', etc was that they could have an immediate impact. When exactly in Bradley's two year contract are we entitled to expect him to 'come good'?