Cool the anti-Clowes rhetoric

[TomTom92]

The question is ‘Is PW going to do enough this season to turn it around?’ 
 
Looking at our performances this season so far I’m going to say no. 
 
Yes we’re just outside the play offs, but if he had us in a relegation fight then I would be concerned. A chimp could have us comfortably midtable. 
 
Therefore, what’s to be gained by sticking by him? Are we just going to have this toxic atmosphere for the rest of the season? But it’s ok because PW has DC and SP under his spell. 
 
A lot of fans aren’t happy and a couple of wins against Northampton etc isn’t to to change that. Social media and the internet may have given us a platform to multiply the toxicity levels. But unfortunately for DC that’s the name of the game these days. Loyalty is dead and it’s a cut throat results business. No point doing a Jerry Maguire just so DC can look in the mirror guilt free.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

The question is ‘Is PW going to do enough this season to turn it around?’ 
 
Looking at our performances this season so far I’m going to say no. 
 
Yes we’re just outside the play offs, but if he had us in a relegation fight then I would be concerned. A chimp could have us comfortably midtable. 
 
Therefore, what’s to be gained by sticking by him? Are we just going to have this toxic atmosphere for the rest of the season? But it’s ok because PW has DC and SP under his spell. 
 
A lot of fans aren’t happy and a couple of wins against Northampton etc isn’t to to change that. Social media and the internet may have given us a platform to multiply the toxicity levels. But unfortunately for DC that’s the name of the game these days. Loyalty is dead and it’s a cut throat results business. No point doing a Jerry Maguire just so DC can look in the mirror guilt free.

Yep.

7 points off 21st and 8 points off 2nd.

[Curtains]

16 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

You go to all the games Curtain...I look from afar...this board is the closest I get to PP so can only gauge my opinion from here, I'll say again there's good posters on here that no what they are talking about and it's those I take note of, You on the other hand have waved the flag in support of both DC and PW I understand that...it's in your blood, And if you turn against your club it's a case of waving the white flag...as now the head is ruling the heart not the other way around.

You can only plug so many holes in a sinking ship, PWs post match comments have damaged him...imo, Once you lay blame on the players it takes some trust to get it back.

As for that last bit in bold, It leaves us with a manager that has failed...again, It leaves us with a manager that will lose some 10 players and he'll be bringing in players that haven't a soft underbelly, Players that can run, Players that are built like brick sh!thouses, Not something that would make me pay to go to PP. So would a clean sweep help now? that's down to DC, I have an opinion but not watching DCFC would only make my opinion a little false.

I hope you leave PP on Tuesday with a smile on your face 👍

 

The situation is so difficult.

It’s a stick or twist situation now. 
 

I think the ship has almost sailed.

Yesterday the team looked rudderless 

[Birdyabroad]

13 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I understand that when the football isn’t pretty, and the league position is dire, football fans will inevitably lash out. However, I am amazed that there are a good number on here tonight slating our owner. This is a staggering state of affairs even for our club, only some 15 months since he saved us.  Cool it down lads. 

I have never agreed more with a post on here 👏 Whatever we feel about Warne’s (Mis)management of the team does NOT reflect on Clowes who, on paper, made a good decision to bring in a ‘League 1’ specialist and get us out the division. That this is turning sour is not on him but on Warne’s refusal, or inability, to see what is in front of his eyes on match days 😞.

[LittleEatonRam]

The man is a legend. He should have the freedom of the city in my opinion. No DCFC without the DC.

 

[Rev]

According to The Athletic, on revenues of £20m last season, we still posted a small loss. 

Hard to criticise a man who still pumps money in.

We need to be in the Championship when the new deal starts, otherwise he'll have to keep pumping money in.

[AndyinLiverpool]

52 minutes ago, Rev said:

According to The Athletic, on revenues of £20m last season, we still posted a small loss. 

Hard to criticise a man who still pumps money in.

We need to be in the Championship when the new deal starts, otherwise he'll have to keep pumping money in.

That doesn't mean he's pumping money in

[richinspain]

What most pleased me when I read the OP was who had posted it. @i-Ram has been very vocal on his thoughts about Warne. He does however recognise that David Clowes made a football decision with the best of intentions. Hindsight is wonderful as always. I am sure that he is more frustrated than an other supporter (even B4!), but he will surely be trying to achieve the best for the club within the financial constraints that are in place.

[Tamworthram]

59 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

The man is a legend. He should have the freedom of the city in my opinion. No DCFC without the DC.

 

I doubt if you’d find any Derby fan that disagreed with you. However, he shouldn’t be immune from mature and sensible criticism. 
 

I don’t blame him for appointing PW. At the time, with his L1 promotion record, it looked like an obvious choice for a team wanting to get back into the Championship. If it fails and we end up parting ways with PW sooner rather than later, I reckon DC would concede he got it wrong.

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

The situation is so difficult.

It’s a stick or twist situation now. 
 

I think the ship has almost sailed.

Yesterday the team looked rudderless 

What a veritable cornucopia of mixed metaphors........

[HorsforthRam]

I don’t think Paul Warne will happily sit on a 4 year contract if he’s not enjoying the job. Looks like the sort that feels life is too short doing something others feel you’re failing at (and even yourself). I don’t know what that would mean financially to him and the club. 

[Miggins]

I don't think there are many fans out there who have more love for and knowledge about our club than David Clowes. It's not just an ailing business he's bought, his ownership is a passion arising out of a lifetime of loyal support and a duty to revive his beloved club which was near death. He made it clear that once the club was back on it's feet again and where he wanted it to be, he was happy to pass on the ownership to another trusted custodian to continue the work, or at least that's how I read it.

DC never set out to become the owner of the club. His was a call of duty under extreme pressure to ensure the clubs survival. He did it because he could and not because he had any ambition to own a football club.

He gave PW a 4 year contract, which we fans now see as perhaps not the wisest of decisions, but we all hope that maybe there were some publically undisclosed conditions attached to such a long contract. DC is bound to have some kind of timetable which takes into account the maximum  financial support he is able to provide, the maximum length of time he can commit to this level of involvement and the targets he needs the club to reach. He will want to see evidence of progression through the seasons of PW's tenure. He will not want to see crowd numbers dropping, morale at a dangerous low, players frustrated, the vocal disapproval of fans, the team looking confused and low in confidence, inconsistency in performance and all those other negative traits we have all seen since late last season.  He wants to see players flourishing, not going backwards and I'm sure he doesn't want to see our out of contract players leaving at the end of the season because they don't like playing here. (I know I'm making a lot of presumptuous assumptions here but these are things I think we would all agree are desirous for the improvement of our club.)

We all know he has 2 main options.

1) Replace PW soon, whatever it takes. Hopefully they can come to some kind of agreement to avoid too much financial burden on the club , thus cutting potential future losses.

2) Carry on with PW and hope it gets better

 

Or here is a third option...

David Clowes needs to intervene, get closely involved in each decision PW makes and demand that PW changes his tactics to ensure that this good squad produces good results and at the very least gets into the playoffs this season, which would be disappointing but still an improvement. I suspect DC has a better plan than PW currently does. 

Even a fourth option.

DC locks PW in his office and confronts him with the above demands armed with a VERY sharp pencil which I would heartily applaud.

(Of course its possible he has already done this)

Heres hoping.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Miggins

[CBRammette]

On 29/10/2023 at 12:31, Tamworthram said:

 

On 29/10/2023 at 11:27, LittleEatonRam said:

The man is a legend. He should have the freedom of the city in my opinion. No DCFC without the DC.

 

I doubt if you’d find any Derby fan that disagreed with you. However, he shouldn’t be immune from mature and sensible criticism. 

 

The problem is there is a distinct lack of mature and sensible criticism on here and social media generally as evidenced last night. The forum used to be a haven away from the polarity and divisiveness of twitter where views were exchanged with humour and without malice but no longer. Certain posters are so hell-bent on an outcome, every other opinion is trampled. I am now reluctantly Warne out but that doesnt mean I have stopped supporting the team or the man who reluctantly moved from obscurity in the North Stand so that we have a manager to moan about. What DC did was massive and obviously his management of the club is not immune from criticism or discussion but the disrespect and insulting comments online to him personally are unbelievable. 

[IlsonDerby]

I’m not warnes biggest fan but this post annoys me. 
 

He spent way over market value saving us. He spent time choosing his manager. He picked someone with a track record of going up and a bloke with principles he agrees with. He’s chosen to give his man more time, that it. I disagree with doing this but I understand why he would. 
 

I don’t think he deserves to have the start of his ownership called very poor. 

[Day]

6 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’m not warnes biggest fan but this post annoys me. 
 

He spent way over market value saving us. He spent time choosing his manager. He picked someone with a track record of going up and a bloke with principles he agrees with. He’s chosen to give his man more time, that it. I disagree with doing this but I understand why he would. 
 

I don’t think he deserves to have the start of his ownership called very poor. 

Rosenior wasn't even sacked. 

Was given the job on an interim basis, replacing him, offering a position elsewhere which is declined and said goodbye, is not a sacking.

[CBRammette]

11 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’m not warnes biggest fan but this post annoys me. 
 

He spent way over market value saving us. He spent time choosing his manager. He picked someone with a track record of going up and a bloke with principles he agrees with. He’s chosen to give his man more time, that it. I disagree with doing this but I understand why he would. 
 

I don’t think he deserves to have the start of his ownership called very poor. 

Exactly - poor start to his ownership 😂😂. How can anyone say that after that feeling of relief last summer and the emotion of going to your seat for the first time last season

[jimtastic56]

On 29/10/2023 at 16:43, Miggins said:

I don't think there are many fans out there who have more love for and knowledge about our club than David Clowes. It's not just an ailing business he's bought, his ownership is a passion arising out of a lifetime of loyal support and a duty to revive his beloved club which was near death. He made it clear that once the club was back on it's feet again and where he wanted it to be, he was happy to pass on the ownership to another trusted custodian to continue the work, or at least that's how I read it.

DC never set out to become the owner of the club. His was a call of duty under extreme pressure to ensure the clubs survival. He did it because he could and not because he had any ambition to own a football club.

He gave PW a 4 year contract, which we fans now see as perhaps not the wisest of decisions, but we all hope that maybe there were some publically undisclosed conditions attached to such a long contract. DC is bound to have some kind of timetable which takes into account the maximum  financial support he is able to provide, the maximum length of time he can commit to this level of involvement and the targets he needs the club to reach. He will want to see evidence of progression through the seasons of PW's tenure. He will not want to see crowd numbers dropping, morale at a dangerous low, players frustrated, the vocal disapproval of fans, the team looking confused and low in confidence, inconsistency in performance and all those other negative traits we have all seen since late last season.  He wants to see players flourishing, not going backwards and I'm sure he doesn't want to see our out of contract players leaving at the end of the season because they don't like playing here. (I know I'm making a lot of presumptuous assumptions here but these are things I think we would all agree are desirous for the improvement of our club.)

We all know he has 2 main options.

1) Replace PW soon, whatever it takes. Hopefully they can come to some kind of agreement to avoid too much financial burden on the club , thus cutting potential future losses.

2) Carry on with PW and hope it gets better

 

Or here is a third option...

David Clowes needs to intervene, get closely involved in each decision PW makes and demand that PW changes his tactics to ensure that this good squad produces good results and at the very least gets into the playoffs this season, which would be disappointing but still an improvement. I suspect DC has a better plan than PW currently does. 

Even a fourth option.

DC locks PW in his office and confronts him with the above demands armed with a VERY sharp pencil which I would heartily applaud.

(Of course its possible he has already done this)

Heres hoping.

David Clowes will have seen what happened to Nigel Clough , who was trying to build the club up on solid foundations . Fans were not happy with mid-table Championship with brilliant kids coming through. He knows what his fellow Rams fans are like so fair play to him by sticking to his principles.

[MadAmster]

On 29/10/2023 at 09:22, Nuwtfly said:

Agree with the sentiment but he can’t just be immune from any criticism because he bought us. It was his decision to chop Rosenior and bring in Warne after all. 

Looking down from my helicopter...

IIRC, the internet was full of people slating Rosenior's apparently preferred slow play through the thirds and crying LR out. I wasn't one of them. It was his first rodeo and he had us in 7th place. Not bad for a rookie. He had said in interviews on several occasions that he wanted the players to up the ball circulation tempo. Sibs and other players also confirmed that in interviews they did. Unfortunately, the play didn't speed up. IMO, the players were capable of moving faster through the thirds but didn't for some reason. I'd have kept faith in LR.

David Clowes didn't keep faith. It surprised me but his motivation for the change looked solid. PW had 3 promotions from L1 in 5 seasons. OK, so 2 relegations in between as well but that could be seen as more a "Rotherham thing" than a Warne issue. The 4 year contract? Might that be down to PW having seen how totally keen DC was to get him and his staff that he knew he could push the boat out with regard to his contract. Hence the 4 years. Maybe DC had been too enthusiastic towards PW and his staff which would have been a mistake. However, IMO, you can't fault the logic DC used. He wanted someone with L1 pedigree with a record of success there. PW ticks the boxes, doesn't he? last season he had the Millers in 8th when he jumped ship to come to Derby. Dizzy heights for RUFC, They ended the season jus 6 points above the drop.

None of us know the background. It is totally feasible that, under the terms of the business deal, we may well have the money to pay PW and his staff off but aren't allowed to spend that amount within the terms of the agreement. Would exceeding the spending limits invoke a points deduction? Wouldn't that be great...

Speaking from hindsight... fans have their opinions and are entitled to them. However, they should also take into account all relevant facts. DC might actually want to change managers but is hogtied by the business plan. All manner of things. The state of the poll at the moment is there have been too few good performances and too many less than average and poor ones.

If you think DC has made mistakes, say so by all means but leave out the vitriol.

PW looks like he's here for a good while yet so let's look at games and criticise what we deem to be errors. Leave out the vitriol.

Criticise poor performances by players, by all means.... no vitriol.

Say what was poor, explain why, offer improvements. Just commenting that so and so was dog poo and leaving it there is plain negative. Get behind the XI on the park. Starting tonight, let's see and hear the fans on the front foot from the off. They keep telling us it gives them a lift. Lift them. You never know, it might just help them put on a positive performance... Player play, supporters support. Twas ever thus.

COYR !

[RoyMac5]

25 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Looking down from my helicopter...

IIRC, the internet was full of people slating Rosenior's apparently preferred slow play through the thirds and crying LR out. I wasn't one of them. It was his first rodeo and he had us in 7th place. Not bad for a rookie. He had said in interviews on several occasions that he wanted the players to up the ball circulation tempo. Sibs and other players also confirmed that in interviews they did. Unfortunately, the play didn't speed up. IMO, the players were capable of moving faster through the thirds but didn't for some reason. I'd have kept faith in LR.

David Clowes didn't keep faith. It surprised me but his motivation for the change looked solid. PW had 3 promotions from L1 in 5 seasons. OK, so 2 relegations in between as well but that could be seen as more a "Rotherham thing" than a Warne issue. The 4 year contract? Might that be down to PW having seen how totally keen DC was to get him and his staff that he knew he could push the boat out with regard to his contract. Hence the 4 years. Maybe DC had been too enthusiastic towards PW and his staff which would have been a mistake. However, IMO, you can't fault the logic DC used. He wanted someone with L1 pedigree with a record of success there. PW ticks the boxes, doesn't he? last season he had the Millers in 8th when he jumped ship to come to Derby. Dizzy heights for RUFC, They ended the season jus 6 points above the drop.

None of us know the background. It is totally feasible that, under the terms of the business deal, we may well have the money to pay PW and his staff off but aren't allowed to spend that amount within the terms of the agreement. Would exceeding the spending limits invoke a points deduction? Wouldn't that be great...

Speaking from hindsight... fans have their opinions and are entitled to them. However, they should also take into account all relevant facts. DC might actually want to change managers but is hogtied by the business plan. All manner of things. The state of the poll at the moment is there have been too few good performances and too many less than average and poor ones.

If you think DC has made mistakes, say so by all means but leave out the vitriol.

PW looks like he's here for a good while yet so let's look at games and criticise what we deem to be errors. Leave out the vitriol.

Criticise poor performances by players, by all means.... no vitriol.

Say what was poor, explain why, offer improvements. Just commenting that so and so was dog poo and leaving it there is plain negative. Get behind the XI on the park. Starting tonight, let's see and hear the fans on the front foot from the off. They keep telling us it gives them a lift. Lift them. You never know, it might just help them put on a positive performance... Player play, supporters support. Twas ever thus.

COYR !

Occams Razor suggest that Clowes is giving Warne time, is all.

[MadAmster]

17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Occams Razor suggest that Clowes is giving Warne time, is all.

Novacula Occami. 

Are you suggesting that DC has taken the easy way out? If not, what are you trying to say?