Cool the anti-Clowes rhetoric

[sunnyhill60]

4 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

I don’t want Ashley or a man like Ashley. My point was that a very wealthy owner ( even one like Ashley) will take us further than that nice man Mr Clowes 

may take us further not will take us further

Many factors other than wealth determine the outcome

[BathRam72]

On 01/11/2023 at 10:16, ramsbottom said:

I still find it hard to fathom that a good number of fans are actively having a pop at our owner.  This is a man who did not want to get involved, but simply had to because he knew what the likely alternative was.  It also pisses me off that folk think he should sell up at the earliest opportunity because he didn't spunk £3m on a striker in the summer.  Only he, along with his accountants, truly know how bad it was when he started his due diligence, so he'll do whatever he can to ensure we don't get in that state again.  If we're moaning at anyone, perhaps we should be moaning at the head of recruitment for not finding the wheat amongst the chaff, in the last transfer window.

As for bringing in, and for the time being, sticking with Warne.  If you had the choice between a novice manager or someone who has 3 promotions from this division, to get you out of it, who are 99% of people going to choose??

Oh please, for goodness sake, stop talking sense. 

 

Seriously exactly what I have been saying. Well done.

[BathRam72]

On 01/11/2023 at 11:46, May Contain Nuts said:

What is "a good number of fans"?

Even if you'd seen 30 people doing that (which I doubt) that'd only be 0.1283% of the number of Derby supporters who turned up at PPS last night.

Unfortunately it only takes one to cause unrest. 

[BathRam72]

On 01/11/2023 at 22:37, May Contain Nuts said:

Again with another 'what is' - what is a good financial position these days? For any club.

We're the healthiest we've been for decades. Virtually no legacy payments, cleared a heck of a lot of debt that we'd otherwise still be on the hook for, no contractual obligations to players  we can't afford, a small operating loss which almost everyone makes...

I think you have answered your own question there. Clowes has cleared a lot of the Morris debt. DC is no MM when it comes to money/assets if you look at the rich list. So if he has purchased the club, ground and cleared or still clearing debt. He is probably quite rightly cautious about how he spends his money. 

 

Healthiest we have been for decades? really, do you have access to the (behind the scenes audits)?  

I am just pleased we have a club or have we forgot where we were 18 months ago.

I was taught that patients is a virtue, let's see.

[G STAR RAM]

On 01/11/2023 at 22:37, May Contain Nuts said:

We're the healthiest we've been for decades. 

Not sure this is necessarily true.

Under MM we were actually debt free, owned our ground outright and had an owner that was injecting capital to cover our losses.

Unfortunately the ground then disappeared and the funds  dried up...

Edited November 6, 2023 by G STAR RAM

[Tamworthram]

55 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Unfortunately it only takes one to cause unrest. 

Using that definition, you could probably say there is unrest at pretty much every club in country as there is bound to be at least one person unhappy with the current position/manager/playing style/squad of players. It’s only a concern when it becomes “widespread unrest” which, of course, is subjective and much more difficult to measure.

[BathRam72]

32 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Using that definition, you could probably say there is unrest at pretty much every club in country as there is bound to be at least one person unhappy with the current position/manager/playing style/squad of players. It’s only a concern when it becomes “widespread unrest” which, of course, is subjective and much more difficult to measure.

Agreed, but it all starts somewhere 

[Tamworthram]

15 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Agreed, but it all starts somewhere 

True but, as I say, technically you could say it’s starting at pretty much every club.

Whoever owns Derby, however it is run, whoever the manager is, whatever tactics are deployed on the pitch, there will always be some that are not happy. I don’t think DC needs to worry about a few comments on social media. A few such comments may look like a groundswell of unrest but, often (IMO) it’s not the case.

[littleover ram]

Feel like pure s**t, just want General Sports and Entertainment and Tom Glick back 

[richinspain]

12 minutes ago, littleover ram said:

Feel like pure s**t, just want General Sports and Entertainment and Tom Glick back 

You are David Clowes and I claim my 5 quid!

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, littleover ram said:

Feel like pure s**t, just want General Sports and Entertainment and Tom Glick back 

Will they appoint Clough Jnr, or Jimmy Jewell?

Edited November 6, 2023 by RoyMac5

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure this is necessarily true.

Under MM we were actually debt free, owned our ground outright and had an owner that was injecting capital to cover our losses.

Unfortunately the ground then disappeared and the funds  dried up...

Thus revealing the fatal flaw in making out our position was ever really healthy under MM.

Even before he came in we still recorded a £7m loss with a £16.4m wage bill, a couple of years later it had become a £14.7m loss and a £32m wage bill - unsustainable whether 'debt free' or not, and the level of s*** he eventually left us in was unprecedented. If he'd been an even bigger p**** he could have demanded we repay him lots more of that money.

2 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Healthiest we have been for decades? really, do you have access to the (behind the scenes audits)? 

We've just been through a period where our financial mistakes have been intensively scrutinised, laid bare for the world to see and we're 'restarting' the club whilst operating under an agreed business plan.

You don't need to see audits to be able to understand / figure out that our position will likely be favourable to previous points in our history where we've been making massive losses, carried unsustainable wages etc.

Edited November 6, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Thus revealing the fatal flaw in making out our position was ever really healthy under MM.

Even before he came in we still recorded a £7m losses with a £16.4m wage bill, a couple of years later it had become a £14.7m loss and a £32m wage bill - unsustainable whether 'debt free' or not, and the level of s*** he eventually left us in was unprecedented.

You don't need to see audits to be able to understand / figure out that our position will be favourable to previous points in our history where we've been making massive losses, carried unsustainable wages etc.

He knew that when he bought us. We were losing money under GSE. Nothing changes. We've had the taxman at our door, we've been to the edge before. That isn't the point of running a football club to have a healthy looking balance sheet - deja vu to GSE. There is a middle way. 

[trappatoni]

On 01/11/2023 at 10:16, ramsbottom said:

I still find it hard to fathom that a good number of fans are actively having a pop at our owner.  This is a man who did not want to get involved, but simply had to because he knew what the likely alternative was.  It also pisses me off that folk think he should sell up at the earliest opportunity because he didn't spunk £3m on a striker in the summer.  Only he, along with his accountants, truly know how bad it was when he started his due diligence, so he'll do whatever he can to ensure we don't get in that state again.  If we're moaning at anyone, perhaps we should be moaning at the head of recruitment for not finding the wheat amongst the chaff, in the last transfer window.

As for bringing in, and for the time being, sticking with Warne.  If you had the choice between a novice manager or someone who has 3 promotions from this division, to get you out of it, who are 99% of people going to choose??

 

If the novice is Rosenior and the other Warne then Rosenior all day.   Said it at the time and there's no point in going over old ground but the idea that appointing Warne was universally welcomed isn't true.   

A lot of the questions that were raised then are still issues now.

- he likes to press high and outwork opponents but we had an older squad that isn't suited

- style of play isn't attractive so going to get less leeway from fans 

- talked about % football and if you get enough crosses into an area you'll score goals 

- we have a cat 1 academy - he doesn't have a record of bringing through youth

- if we do go up - which for dcfc you'd think then was almost certain in 3-4 years (less so now) what's his record like at a higher level

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

 

If the novice is Rosenior and the other Warne then Rosenior all day.   Said it at the time and there's no point in going over old ground but the idea that appointing Warne was universally welcomed isn't true.   

A lot of the questions that were raised then are still issues now.

- he likes to press high and outwork opponents but we had an older squad that isn't suited

- style of play isn't attractive so going to get less leeway from fans 

- talked about % football and if you get enough crosses into an area you'll score goals 

- we have a cat 1 academy - he doesn't have a record of bringing through youth

- if we do go up - which for dcfc you'd think then was almost certain in 3-4 years (less so now) what's his record like at a higher level

I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams is suggesting that the appointment of PW was universally welcomed. Some objected at the time, even more do so now. Their concerns, some of which you have listed, may well prove to be justified. Only time will tell and only DC will decide how long that time is.

[Archied]

On 05/11/2023 at 22:47, kevinhectoring said:

I don’t want Ashley or a man like Ashley. My point was that a very wealthy owner ( even one like Ashley) will take us further than that nice man Mr Clowes 

Your right ,,, we had a wealthy owner , he took us further than a nice man like clowes ,,,,,,, IN THE WRONG DUCKING DIRECTION,,, in fact to the brink of no longer existing

[Wolfie20]

On 06/11/2023 at 10:29, trappatoni said:

 

If the novice is Rosenior and the other Warne then Rosenior all day.   Said it at the time and there's no point in going over old ground but the idea that appointing Warne was universally welcomed isn't true.   

A lot of the questions that were raised then are still issues now.

- he likes to press high and outwork opponents but we had an older squad that isn't suited

- style of play isn't attractive so going to get less leeway from fans 

- talked about % football and if you get enough crosses into an area you'll score goals 

- we have a cat 1 academy - he doesn't have a record of bringing through youth

- if we do go up - which for dcfc you'd think then was almost certain in 3-4 years (less so now) what's his record like at a higher level

Isn't this old ground?

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

Your right ,,, we had a wealthy owner , he took us further than a nice man like clowes ,,,,,,, IN THE WRONG DUCKING DIRECTION,,, in fact to the brink of no longer existing

So did Lionel didn't he?

[Archied]

32 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So did Lionel didn't he?

My personal view on Lionel is positive but I’m not going to open that can of worms