Matchday Thread - Derby County vs Plymouth Argyle (03/09 15:00)

[sage]

13 minutes ago, Duracell said:

A huge chunk of our talent and experience aren’t capable of lasting 90 mins. Big problem with no short-term solution.

Agreed. Previously on this thread I said we need to have a balanced starting XI and bench. So there is a mixture of experience and youth in both areas. 

[alram]

The next 3 games are really important to how the season will go, 10 games in the table starts to take shape and we could be anywhere between mid table & top 2 but all 3 games are winnable games.

 

you shouldn’t ever lose a game when 2-0 up but Plymouth are a good side and it’s put the pressure on these next 3.

Edited September 4, 2022 by alram

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

38 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

We all have to bear in mind that for many teams in this division this is their biggest game of the season so there will be days when we don't get what we expect. Teams will give that extra 20% and get their tactics right against us so if we are off the pace we will suffer the same result as yesterday. 

It was disappointing but we have enough experience in the dressing room to move on and go again in the next game and we have enough quality to beat any other team in this division as long as we treat every game with the respect it deserves.

Rosenior at this point doesn't appear to know his best team but that is understandable after half a dozen games, and I think most fans understand that and are patient enough at this stage.

Forget yesterday, on to the next opportunity. 

Think that applies to a fair few clubs but Plymouth have played us at a higher level on a number of occasions.  Basically it came down they looked fitter and more organised. We clearly have a fair few players who have an hour in them when they have to run around a bit, after an hour  of doing that they look ragged and tired.  Think the trick may be to avoid starting two forwards with a combined age of nearly 70 and use one at a time with a set of young legs.  Shove someone with a better engine in midfield as well and we may get a better output from Hourihane as he'll have more in the tank latter stages when the games stretched.   I also could see Barkhuizen being used more effectively as a second half introduction .  He has a trick or two with quick feet and will draw silly fouls against tiring fullbacks.  

[Andrew3000]

I agreed with Liam that they were better than us and he was right to be concerned even at 2-0 up. However, he then talks vaguely about energy levels. My view is the midfield balance was wrong and I'm a bit disappointed he didn't see this and own it. What I'm starting to wonder is whether playing Bird and Hourihane is wise, particularly when Mcgoldrick plays. It seems that both is a luxury and leaves us far too open and without any steel or enough mobility and power in that area.

When Smith is fit, I think he's our first choice DM or should be. I don't want us trying to accommodate all the best players at the expense of balance. As someone mentioned before, is Hourihane immune to being subbed? If you are bringing Thompson on surely its for him?

Also, lack of pace at the back without Roberts. Whilst the tactic of having forsyth pushed up and winning the long ball often worked, it left us exposed at times down that side.

Great football at times from us, very entertaining but far too open if we're serious about going for promotion.

 

Just seen that others posted similar views. Sorry for the repetition.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Andrew3000

[Ramarena]

We have two problems at the moment.

One is the second half performances, which is mostly put down to lack of fitness due to throwing the team together last minute and bringing in a number of players that haven’t played much in recent years (one of the reasons we could get them). There isn’t really a solution to this except creative use of subs till fitness improves.

Second is the midfield blend, it hasn’t been too noticeable until yesterday as a number of teams have sat back against us, Plymouth didn’t do that and it exposed us.

I really rate Max Bird but he’s struggled a bit so far, Hourihane hasn’t set the world alight either! Smith for either one of them might be the better solution when he’s fit. You could also put Knight in there, CDM isn’t his best position but he would certainly be less passive.

It’s not all doom and gloom and there’s plenty to be content with, but these two areas are the ones we really need to work on.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Ramarena

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

We have two problems at the moment.

One is the second half performances, which is mostly put down to lack of fitness due to throwing the team together last minute and bringing in a number of players that haven’t played much in recent years (one of the reasons we could get them). There isn’t really a solution to this except creative use of subs till fitness improves.

Second is the midfield blend, it hasn’t been too noticeable until yesterday as a number of teams have sat back against us, Plymouth didn’t do that and it exposed us.

I really rate Max Bird but he’s struggled a bit so far, Hourihane hasn’t set the world alight either! Smith for either one of them might be the better solution when he’s fit. You could also put Knight in there, CDM isn’t his best but he would certainly be less passive.

It’s not all doom and gloom and there’s plenty to be content with, but these two areas are the ones we really need to work on.

Surely the fitness situation will improve once players get match fit, still playing catch up ?

[MACKWORTHRAM]

After having a bit of time to digest yesterday I'm hoping we can turn this into a positive.

If we had hung on to win that yesterday it would have papered over several cracks. Sometimes you need something like this as a huge wake up call and kind of a shock to the system. 

Obviously I hate losing and I hate to see us get beat, even more so after losing a two goal lead. But my overriding emotions yesterday and today was this team fully deserved what they got yesterday and hopefully it's opened Rosenior's eyes to some things that have been showing since game one imo but not so glaringly as yesterday.

Bird and Hourihane together doesn't work for me. Both left footed so the balance isn't right. I'd rather Bird play CDM on his own with Hourihane and someone else ahead of him in a 2. Bird is a class player and should be showing so much more than what he is at the minute. I'd like to see him come out the team for Smith and see what Smith can offer there. 

I said at the start of the season that Thompson is not good enough yet. Too small, lightweight. Got bullied yesterday and his first thought is always to go backwards. Any attacking impetus we had yesterday went when he came on. I didn't understand it at the time, even more so after.

Oduroh at the very least has to make the bench. To give us the option to move Knight into midfield. Because we were crying out for him there yesterday. I'd be very tempted to chuck Oduroh in against Morecambe and play a midfield of Smith, Hourihane and Knight.

Hopefully Davies is back for Saturday we need him back in. 

Days like yesterday were always gonna happen. Cannot afford to give teams that much space in midfield they were running through us.

It was coming though. Arguably the best we have played this season has been the first half at Charlton and possibly the same with Barnsley at home. But Peterborough we were poor and that win papered over cracks.

Like I say hopefully Rosenior has learnt a lot from yesterday because it's glaringly obvious to most.

Whilst I am fully behind Rosenior and really hope he gets the job full time and takes us up. I can see why he hasn't been given it full time yet. Because in my opinion we haven't been playing well in the main.

 

[Ramarena]

9 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Surely the fitness situation will improve once players get match fit, still playing catch up ?

Yes, hence why I said there isn’t an instant solution other than creative subs, till fitness improves.

[Rambervalley]

4 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

After having a bit of time to digest yesterday I'm hoping we can turn this into a positive.

If we had hung on to win that yesterday it would have papered over several cracks. Sometimes you need something like this as a huge wake up call and kind of a shock to the system. 

Obviously I hate losing and I hate to see us get beat, even more so after losing a two goal lead. But my overriding emotions yesterday and today was this team fully deserved what they got yesterday and hopefully it's opened Rosenior's eyes to some things that have been showing since game one imo but not so glaringly as yesterday.

Bird and Hourihane together doesn't work for me. Both left footed so the balance isn't right. I'd rather Bird play CDM on his own with Hourihane and someone else ahead of him in a 2. Bird is a class player and should be showing so much more than what he is at the minute. I'd like to see him come out the team for Smith and see what Smith can offer there. 

I said at the start of the season that Thompson is not good enough yet. Too small, lightweight. Got bullied yesterday and his first thought is always to go backwards. Any attacking impetus we had yesterday went when he came on. I didn't understand it at the time, even more so after.

Oduroh at the very least has to make the bench. To give us the option to move Knight into midfield. Because we were crying out for him there yesterday. I'd be very tempted to chuck Oduroh in against Morecambe and play a midfield of Smith, Hourihane and Knight.

Hopefully Davies is back for Saturday we need him back in. 

Days like yesterday were always gonna happen. Cannot afford to give teams that much space in midfield they were running through us.

It was coming though. Arguably the best we have played this season has been the first half at Charlton and possibly the same with Barnsley at home. But Peterborough we were poor and that win papered over cracks.

Like I say hopefully Rosenior has learnt a lot from yesterday because it's glaringly obvious to most.

Whilst I am fully behind Rosenior and really hope he gets the job full time and takes us up. I can see why he hasn't been given it full time yet. Because in my opinion we haven't been playing well in the main.

 

Max Bird’s good game ratio is similar to Tom Lawrence’s at the moment. Not consistent enough this season. 
 

Thompson would maybe benefit from a loan move. 
 

CH is underwhelming at present.
 

But I’m confident it will all come good - I’d have taken 9th after 7 games before the season started. 

[DCFC1388]

Having watched the goals back, the 1st is so lucky, a bit like Barnsleys...their 2nd is clearly offside & their 3rd Cashin clearly makes a mistake.

On another day, playing that poorly & we still win comfortably vs a team who is meant to be a top end team.

Lets hope we learn our lessons from yesterday. Smith needs to come in when fit, although I dont think that will be next week, Morecambe away we have to be winning given their start.

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

After having a bit of time to digest yesterday I'm hoping we can turn this into a positive.

If we had hung on to win that yesterday it would have papered over several cracks. Sometimes you need something like this as a huge wake up call and kind of a shock to the system. 

Obviously I hate losing and I hate to see us get beat, even more so after losing a two goal lead. But my overriding emotions yesterday and today was this team fully deserved what they got yesterday and hopefully it's opened Rosenior's eyes to some things that have been showing since game one imo but not so glaringly as yesterday.

Bird and Hourihane together doesn't work for me. Both left footed so the balance isn't right. I'd rather Bird play CDM on his own with Hourihane and someone else ahead of him in a 2. Bird is a class player and should be showing so much more than what he is at the minute. I'd like to see him come out the team for Smith and see what Smith can offer there. 

I said at the start of the season that Thompson is not good enough yet. Too small, lightweight. Got bullied yesterday and his first thought is always to go backwards. Any attacking impetus we had yesterday went when he came on. I didn't understand it at the time, even more so after.

Oduroh at the very least has to make the bench. To give us the option to move Knight into midfield. Because we were crying out for him there yesterday. I'd be very tempted to chuck Oduroh in against Morecambe and play a midfield of Smith, Hourihane and Knight.

Hopefully Davies is back for Saturday we need him back in. 

Days like yesterday were always gonna happen. Cannot afford to give teams that much space in midfield they were running through us.

It was coming though. Arguably the best we have played this season has been the first half at Charlton and possibly the same with Barnsley at home. But Peterborough we were poor and that win papered over cracks.

Like I say hopefully Rosenior has learnt a lot from yesterday because it's glaringly obvious to most.

Whilst I am fully behind Rosenior and really hope he gets the job full time and takes us up. I can see why he hasn't been given it full time yet. Because in my opinion we haven't been playing well in the main.

 

The team has been thrown together in a short space of time. I think it will be Christmas time before we can really judge how the team is doing and where we are. Big rebuilding job and LR needs to be given time ?

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, DCFC1388 said:

Having watched the goals back, the 1st is so lucky, a bit like Barnsleys...their 2nd is clearly offside & their 3rd Cashin clearly makes a mistake.

On another day, playing that poorly & we still win comfortably vs a team who is meant to be a top end team.

Lets hope we learn our lessons from yesterday. Smith needs to come in when fit, although I dont think that will be next week, Morecambe away we have to be winning given their start.

Lots of ifs and buts. What if they had scored from a couple of their excellent other chances….

[Crewton]

39 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Think that applies to a fair few clubs but Plymouth have played us at a higher level on a number of occasions.  Basically it came down they looked fitter and more organised. We clearly have a fair few players who have an hour in them when they have to run around a bit, after an hour  of doing that they look ragged and tired.  Think the trick may be to avoid starting two forwards with a combined age of nearly 70 and use one at a time with a set of young legs.  Shove someone with a better engine in midfield as well and we may get a better output from Hourihane as he'll have more in the tank latter stages when the games stretched.   I also could see Barkhuizen being used more effectively as a second half introduction .  He has a trick or two with quick feet and will draw silly fouls against tiring fullbacks.  

Judging by their fans reactions on SM and after the game, this was a big win for them, almost of "giant-killing" proportions the way they're treating it (including references to our massive budget ?) so I've no doubt that their manager saw it as a notable fixture too. Does that mean they try harder? I'm not sure, but I'm sure it won't be the last time a team goes on a virtual open-top bus tour after beating us. We've just got to start handling it better. 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

10 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Having watched the goals back, the 1st is so lucky, a bit like Barnsleys...their 2nd is clearly offside & their 3rd Cashin clearly makes a mistake.

On another day, playing that poorly & we still win comfortably vs a team who is meant to be a top end team.

Lets hope we learn our lessons from yesterday. Smith needs to come in when fit, although I dont think that will be next week, Morecambe away we have to be winning given their start.

The first is lucky I agree. But it comes from Forsyth heading to the edge of his own box. Which you should never do.

[Sparkle]

We are a cobbled together assortment of very young players and basically very old players in professional football terms and I was surprised by yesterday’s team selection pitching that very experienced starting X1 all at the same time which left us with nothing but youngsters in the second half and many of those youngsters have only recently arrived. A more balanced approach may well be the most sensible option going forwards especially when defending a lead because all those youngsters were not defending in an organised way.

[angieram]

51 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Lots of ifs and buts. What if they had scored from a couple of their excellent other chances….

What if we had? There were chances first half to put the game out of sight. Despite our otherwise under-par performance we looked very dangerous on the break. Don't usually get that much room.

[hintonsboots]

I'm in agreement with much of the comments so far. The midfield balance isn’t good and we need JK in there to free up Hourihane who was signed as a playmaker/ set piece specialist. Thompson is too lightweight but May still improve. Cashin made a howler but he’s been very good so far considering he is still learning. 
Had to take a load of flak this morning from a fitness instructor who is an Argyle fan?.

[jono]

5 hours ago, angieram said:

But Sibley isn't an 'outlet' he is a midfielder. Should have been playing where Hourihane moved to, and left Barkhuizen on instead of Hourihane.

Listen to the Plymouth manager, he knew if he could stop Bird and Hourihane playing that they'd win. He did just that. Sibley in midfield would have posed a different problem as he would have run at their defence. We saw what happened when Mendez did that in the first half. But no, we stick him on the wing doing what Barkhuizen was doing perfectly adequately until Bird and Hourihane stopped giving him the ball.

 

I agree Angie, mind you I thought Barks was having a bit of a sub par game for him, which does happen, but he could have worked through it, Hourhan had been clattered hard twice, was off the pace too. Tweaking the system for Sibs to play in the middle would have been much better - as that late run on the edge of the box where he fought and squirmed his way past 3 defenders showed perfectly. 
 

As a side note, think the Lino called the offside correctly. Looking at the highlights of the second the scorer was pretty much level and the first, well our player did touch it enough to be described as “playing it” so I’ll have to give a nod to the ref for those. Still not forgiving him for McGoldricks booking or the Osulo free kick ! 

[1of4]

On the match ratings thread. I scored most of the players a six. Which is what we were bang average. I don't know if Plymouth's performance  was was their bang average performance or if they'd up their game but it was certainly better than ours.  If it hadn't been for a good save by Wildsmith and a great block by Knight it could easily have been two all at half-time.

Against other teams we may have got away with a two nil win. But if we want to push for promotion, I don't think bang average will be good enough to beat many teams in this league.

[Premier ram]

well done to Plymouth and their manager , stuck to a gameplan and reaped their rewards , thought 1st half we did ok but 2nd half we ran out of steam , Bird and Hourihane were invisible most of 2nd half , Smith to come in when fit , agree with everything said about Sibbo , wasted out wide , Liam is learning on the job with an inexperienced backroom staff and a squad thrown together , i remain confident in Liam and the team to produce a good season

                                                                           Onto Morecambe and hopefully kickstart our away form , we are just small tweaks away to having a team that will be competitive in this league