Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[RadioactiveWaste]

I always got the impression being put into administration was a last resort (with the "hobson's choice" being administration or immediate bankrupcy and liquidation) and a very bad thing to avoided at all costs.

Still not seen or heard anything about our current situation that has changed my view.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

27 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Apologies if this has been asked already. Perhaps @Van der MoodHoover can help me with this one.

One thing I don't understand is the purpose of bringing in administrators. If the administrators are just going to come in, make people redundant, sell our assets and pay off the creditors, what's stopping Mel doing that himself without triggering the legal process and being deducted 12 points?

Not an attack on him (though I've got plenty of ammunition). Just genuinely interested.

At one point it could stop interest and also the poor buggers getting laid of will go in a creditors line and be struggling to get anything.  In other words it saves him money.  It may be that creditors will be willing to accept less- sometimes a lot less - to ensure they get something.  Bielik will probably go back to Arsenal on a free to cover the remainder of his fee and be flogged on again for a few million. 

[jono]

51 minutes ago, Miggins said:

It's hard for me to understand how we could have amassed so much debt and how it wasn't picked up by regulators at the end of each financial year. How many other businesses could have carried on in this way for so long? I understand Mel's point on Saturday about COVID affecting each team disproportionately depending on parachute payments, size of club etc.  and I think Derby was one of those clubs that was disproportionately affected. However I think that the main reason that we were also hit especially hard was because we already had huge impending debts and entered the pandemic with those debts hanging over us and with no money in the contingency fund. How on earth was Mel allowed to get us into this position? Did we not have top accountants at the club who could have stepped in to safeguard the future of the club? I wish HMRC had been as diligent with DCFC as it is with the rest of us! Yours in exasperation...

 

That’s it in a nutshell. The story of the crash is plain enough but what leaves me flabbergasted is that Mel and the people running the club with him / for him just didn’t react. Mel has had a career where I am sure he has sailed close to the wind …. Surely he must have learned from this …. Evidently not. These sort of people, and their accountants are (or should be) seasoned professionals. They failed. 
 

it’s a bit like the creators of endowment mortgages. Serious companies sold these. Blue chips, with solid track records but at a certain point they fundamentally mismanaged the selling and the projections to a degree that anyone with even modest prudence just wouldn’t accept. They believed their own invincibility at great cost to others. 

[CBRammette]

Just had 5 live on in car on way home and I think Ed Dawes was talking about various player and staff meetings today. Think he said administrator, Mel and Wayne then Mel asked to leave by WAyne. Any news of these meetings on here? Sorry if I have missed just went back few pages and couldnt see anything

[Gringo]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

? That will be a given? Although I thought I read that the admins company have 'links'(?) to MSD?

MSD as a major creditor appointed the Administrator, their sole aim to get their money back, my belief is that they could not wait any longer as because of all the press coverage HMRC had or were going to issue a winding up order which would have compromised the MSD position. The administrator will still want to sell the club as a going concern and as such will sell assets (players) only as and when they need to keep the club fulfilling fixtures. The big unknown is how much cash there is in the bank accounts and did Mel Morris leave enough for the next 2 month wages, my considered view is that Quantum will be on an earner to sell the club asap 

[alexxxxx]

Just now, Charlotte Ram said:

MSD as a major creditor appointed the Administrator, their sole aim to get their money back, my belief is that they could not wait any longer as because of all the press coverage HMRC had or were going to issue a winding up order which would have compromised the MSD position. The administrator will still want to sell the club as a going concern and as such will sell assets (players) only as and when they need to keep the club fulfilling fixtures. The big unknown is how much cash there is in the bank accounts and did Mel Morris leave enough for the next 2 month wages, my considered view is that Quantum will be on an earner to sell the club asap 

I wonder if the club can call in cash owed to it by Morris for the stadium sale? 

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

So out of interest, common man who doesn't pay taxes ends up eventually with convictions and potential jail time. As the owner of a business that has racked up 26 million in unpaid tax over numerous years,may this be what he's facing and why he's dumped the club into admin? Just a thought..

1. So out of interest, common man who doesn't pay taxes ends up eventually with convictions and potential jail time

The Common Man, If he's self employed and has not paid his PAYE this is not a criminal case, It's a Civil case, If he's failed to fill in self assesment forms then HMRC will send self assesment forms telling him that these must be filled in NOW or else, If he has failed to fill them in...then a fine is on it's way £1,200, If this is not paid then HMRC can if they choose send a CCJ, If found in HMRCs favour, 3 things can happen, 1-he can enter into a payment plan of what he can afford over a certain amount of time, 2-send the Bailifs in and take goods to the value of, 3-right oustanding amounts off as he has NO assets.

2. As the owner of a business that has racked up 26 million in unpaid tax over numerous years,may this be what he's facing and why he's dumped the club into admin? Just a thought..

The business owner will be a Director of a Ltd company or had better be, The owner is not liable for business debts, Tho if the business owner had sold his business to a 3rd party and failed to tell HMRC this and kept said PAYE payments then that is Fraud and COULD end up in prison, But it would often come down to be able to pay back tax...and the Judge.

Hope this all makes sense.

[Miggins]

4 hours ago, alram said:

Has anyone else just felt physically sick this past week, it is really affecting my mental health.

Thank you for making us all look like complete idiots mel.

I think many fans, including myself, have felt the way you feel this week, @alram and we are all feeling let down at present. Take care of yourself and don't let the buggers get you down!! X

[bimmerman]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

1. So out of interest, common man who doesn't pay taxes ends up eventually with convictions and potential jail time

The Common Man, If he's self employed and has not paid his PAYE this is not a criminal case, It's a Civil case, If he's failed to fill in self assesment forms then HMRC will send self assesment forms telling him that these must be filled in NOW or else, If he has failed to fill them in...then a fine is on it's way £1,200, If this is not paid then HMRC can if they choose send a CCJ, If found in HMRCs favour, 3 things can happen, 1-he can enter into a payment plan of what he can afford over a certain amount of time, 2-send the Bailifs in and take goods to the value of, 3-right oustanding amounts off as he has NO assets.

2. As the owner of a business that has racked up 26 million in unpaid tax over numerous years,may this be what he's facing and why he's dumped the club into admin? Just a thought..

The business owner will be a Director of a Ltd company or had better be, The owner is not liable for business debts, Tho if the business owner had sold his business to a 3rd party and failed to tell HMRC this and kept said PAYE payments then that is Fraud and COULD end up in prison, But it would often come down to be able to pay back tax...and the Judge.

Hope this all makes sense.

Thanks. I'm normal and pay tax on wages+scared of the tax man coming a knocking so have no idea!!

[Ram-Alf]

16 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Just had 5 live on in car on way home and I think Ed Dawes was talking about various player and staff meetings today. Think he said administrator, Mel and Wayne then Mel asked to leave by WAyne. Any news of these meetings on here? Sorry if I have missed just went back few pages and couldnt see anything

Only what I have gleaned from the media so bare with aye.

MM met all playing staff and coaches yesterday at Moor Farm, Today WR has spoken/trained with the players, Tomorrow WR is meeting with the Adinistraters, Then giving his usual Thursday press conference.

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

33 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

It'll be interesting to see if they go after Mel for outstanding stadium payments..... ?

If Mel’s had any sense he’ll have loaned the money he’s been putting in over the past year to Gellaw 202, then shovelled that across to DCFC to reduce the amount owed for the stadium. 

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Just had 5 live on in car on way home and I think Ed Dawes was talking about various player and staff meetings today. Think he said administrator, Mel and Wayne then Mel asked to leave by Wayne. Any news of these meetings on here? Sorry if I have missed just went back few pages and couldnt see anything

Interesting?

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

I wonder if the club can call in cash owed to it by Morris for the stadium sale? 

Is this the point when Mel says "80 million? It's not worth 50... er .... oops!"

[Anag Ram]

26 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Just had 5 live on in car on way home and I think Ed Dawes was talking about various player and staff meetings today. Think he said administrator, Mel and Wayne then Mel asked to leave by WAyne. Any news of these meetings on here? Sorry if I have missed just went back few pages and couldnt see anything

WR: Right, he's gone. Louie, get a shin up from Curtis. We're having the lead off the roof! 

[Ram1988]

2 hours ago, sage said:

Agreed. 12 points is recoverable if there isn't a fire sale in Jan. Maybe 16 points at a push. Imagine the scenes if we managed it. 

I agree. 12 points is recoverable any more than that is very doubtful. 

It's essential we don't have a fire sale though, we simply can't let our sqaud get decimated. Hopefully we have a sustainable buyer to come along soon to prevent that.

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Miggins said:

It's hard for me to understand how we could have amassed so much debt and how it wasn't picked up by regulators at the end of each financial year. How many other businesses could have carried on in this way for so long? I understand Mel's point on Saturday about COVID affecting each team disproportionately depending on parachute payments, size of club etc.  and I think Derby was one of those clubs that was disproportionately affected. However I think that the main reason that we were also hit especially hard was because we already had huge impending debts and entered the pandemic with those debts hanging over us and with no money in the contingency fund. How on earth was Mel allowed to get us into this position? Did we not have top accountants at the club who could have stepped in to safeguard the future of the club? I wish HMRC had been as diligent with DCFC as it is with the rest of us! Yours in exasperation...

 

How can any business be able to lose £13 million pounds a year and it can be fine and dandy 

[KBB]

As long as the club survives (doesn't go into liquidation) we will be in league 1. If we have worst case scenarios of double relegation loads of points off and everyone sold who can be it will be a 10 year+ reset.

We will not simply walk back up the leagues. It won't happen. Think of clubs who went down a stayed down.

For me there is nothing else at the moment that matters but making sure the club survives. Nothing more. Make sure we have Derby county for the short, medium and long term.

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

Thanks for sharing mate, maybe Arison was the dream buyer JP mentioned a while back. Worth 11.1 billion dollars, although the cruise ship industry has taken a big hit recently. Need a bit of hope now to cling onto.

Is this the guy who owns Miami heat and lives on his various superyacht’s instead of a house?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

44 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Just had 5 live on in car on way home and I think Ed Dawes was talking about various player and staff meetings today. Think he said administrator, Mel and Wayne then Mel asked to leave by WAyne. Any news of these meetings on here? Sorry if I have missed just went back few pages and couldnt see anything

Fair play to Wayne if true. It's not Mels club any more. Cant have random old men cutting about the place whilst the people that actually give a toss about DCFC try and salvage the situation.

Edited September 22, 2021 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[Miggins]

6 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

How can any business be able to lose £13 million pounds a year and it can be fine and dandy 

£200 million put in by Mel plus money for the stadium. Where one earth did that money go? I don't understand the details of our finances, @Sparkle, but I don't understand how we ended up in so much catastrophic debt.