Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[Sparkle]

9 hours ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.

Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 

They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).

Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I would just like to add that sky sports have very little to actually show on TV without the EFL who should have a huge bargaining chip to sell rather than being grateful for some crumbs 

[Eddie]

9 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'd totally watch the unbiased state tv coverage we got in North Korea.

You'd have to.

[Indy]

30 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

From EFL statement 17 September

"The EFL entered into a debt raise to provide its Clubs with access to funds that would support them in dealing with the impact of COVID and, as with any loan, this was subject to a timeframe and eligibility criteria which Derby County was unable to meet."

 

So here they say we are unable to meet the eligibility criteria, which according to media reports included not being "suspected of breaching EFL rules". So because they accused us of breaking the rules, (mere accusation being enough) and because they agreed criteria that by definition excluded us from eligibility we didn't get the loan? And now they are saying its because we didn't apply.

 

Quite frankly this goes beyond spin , it is deliberately misleading and dishonest from the EFL. 

I agree totally. I thought that as soon as I saw them add in the “timeframe” criteria which I’d not seen mentioned before. Struck me as a pretty obvious attempt to head off the argument that, having not been found guilty of breaking the rules, we should still be eligible for the funds. Yet another example (along with the embargo) of the efl enacting a punishment based on an accusation and the fact that their procedures delayed everything. 

[Ram-Alf]

Macclesfield, Bury, Wigan, Were teams that were seriously taken advantage of by unscrupulous businessmen, 2 are no longer members of the EFL the other after almost a miraculous escape suffered relegation after a 12 point deduction...and are now doing well, Their fans had nothing to do with their outcome, The EFL who are the regulatory body and gate keepers failed miserably in their duty to protect them from people who only wanted to make money for themselves.

Bolton almost went the same way, Anderson who was the owner/major shareholder wouldn't budge with his demands, The EFL caved in and Anderson walked away with what he wanted.

The ELF signed off our accounts only for some one to complain Maguire/Gibson to force the EFL to take another look at DCFC, Eventually the outcome we all know.

MM set the ball in motion to get a better deal from Sky who had got the deal they wanted from the EFL, MM is on record with his comments that he and the EFL are at loggerheads with each other after he tried to get other Chairman involved in negotiating a better deal...The EFL have never forgiven him.

What's the comman denominator in all this...the Fans!!, No one cares about football supporters.

[PistoldPete]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

I agree totally. I thought that as soon as I saw them add in the “timeframe” criteria which I’d not seen mentioned before. Struck me as a pretty obvious attempt to head off the argument that, having not been found guilty of breaking the rules, we should still be eligible for the funds. Yet another example (along with the embargo) of the efl enacting a punishment based on an accusation and the fact that their procedures delayed everything. 

We are found "guilty" of using wrong amortisation method in May 2021 . Not sure why that alone should have disallowed us from the loan , but even if w had been found innocent of all charges , we would only then have become eligible in May 2021 , 15 months after the pandemic started to affect us.

 

I mean it may have saved us from administration or maybe not , it was only £8 million well below the actual losses suffered due to covid. Even so , the general picture is that EFL has significantly worsened our prospects of survival , and continue to do so.   

Edited October 8, 2021 by PistoldPete

[Donnyram]

1 hour ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Unfortunately, IMHO we should have learned by now that our streams of information/ misinformation for DCFC’s ongoing struggles with The EFL are being fed to us by people and organisations that in truth we can’t really believe everything and possibly anything they say.

We will never know the truth about anything regarding this whole ? ⛈ 

I believe that there has been a serious dereliction of duties within both parties and we as the “little people” have no other option than to grin and bare it.

Should be an episode of Question Time with both Mel and the EFL represented.  Won’t tell us anything but it’d be fun to see them both completely avoid answering the questions with politician type responses.

[Woodley Ram]

34 minutes ago, Indy said:

I agree totally. I thought that as soon as I saw them add in the “timeframe” criteria which I’d not seen mentioned before. Struck me as a pretty obvious attempt to head off the argument that, having not been found guilty of breaking the rules, we should still be eligible for the funds. Yet another example (along with the embargo) of the efl enacting a punishment based on an accusation and the fact that their procedures delayed everything. 

innocence until proven guilty is not a concept that the EFL recognise. I understand that they want to make sure that clubs survive and behave properly but they need to do something about the appeal process and the time taken as that turns into a penalty itself. 

They also need to do something about soft debt and parachute payments. The reason a number of clubs are not in our position is that their owners absorb the debt without the need to repay where as we have commercial loan payments to make. Parachute payments have made the Championship into a 3 tier league. those that have PL payments, those with large attendances and those that don't. The playing field needs to be a little more level otherwise more clubs will chase the dream and those with parachute payments will struggle to reduce their costs when they lose those payments.

Punishments need to be transparent and consistent. For instance Reading look like getting a similar penalty to us for P&S (FFP) even though their overpayment dwarfs ours. Historically other clubs have had their penalties reduced that also have higher overpayments (Birmingham for instance). I have no issue with QPR, Aston Villa and others but they killed FFP before they were promoted and then received a fine that was meaningless (based on Prem income). They should have had retrospective points deductions or the use of fines should be an option to clubs still in the Championship. 

These are Reading losses

2019/20 was a 43.5 million loss - £30m over
2018/19 was 40.7 million loss- £27m over

That said it is still our (Mel's & Pearce) fault that we are in this situation

Edited October 8, 2021 by Woodley Ram
more facts

[Chris_D]

58 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

From EFL statement 17 September

"The EFL entered into a debt raise to provide its Clubs with access to funds that would support them in dealing with the impact of COVID and, as with any loan, this was subject to a timeframe and eligibility criteria which Derby County was unable to meet."

 

So here they say we are unable to meet the eligibility criteria, which according to media reports included not being "suspected of breaching EFL rules". So because they accused us of breaking the rules, (mere accusation being enough) and because they agreed criteria that by definition excluded us from eligibility we didn't get the loan? And now they are saying its because we didn't apply.

 

Quite frankly this goes beyond spin , it is deliberately misleading and dishonest from the EFL. 

The EFL say in the Rams Trust doc that we didn't apply at all in time, asked for an extension that could not be given due to how late in the process it was, and were also not able to supply the required funding commitment for repayments, so all ties in as far as I can see and again falls to Mel not doing things correctly:

Q: Has the EFL denied Derby access to the Covid loans facility?
A: No. Derby County did not apply for the loan by the initial application date. Via the lending
facility, there was an extended application period through until 31 July. They still did not apply
and on 28 July it sought a further extension which the EFL couldn’t deliver as the external facility
required the repayment of all remaining funds prior to 31 July 2021. In addition, the Club was
still not a position to provide evidence as to its ability to repay the loan.

[Leeds Ram]

10 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'd totally watch the unbiased state tv coverage we got in North Korea.

'mighty juche loving Derby smash worthless capitalist opponents' I can see it now ?

[Tamworthram]

12 minutes ago, Chris_D said:

The EFL say in the Rams Trust doc that we didn't apply at all in time, asked for an extension that could not be given due to how late in the process it was, and were also not able to supply the required funding commitment for repayments, so all ties in as far as I can see and again falls to Mel not doing things correctly:

Q: Has the EFL denied Derby access to the Covid loans facility?
A: No. Derby County did not apply for the loan by the initial application date. Via the lending
facility, there was an extended application period through until 31 July. They still did not apply
and on 28 July it sought a further extension which the EFL couldn’t deliver as the external facility
required the repayment of all remaining funds prior to 31 July 2021. In addition, the Club was
still not a position to provide evidence as to its ability to repay the loan.

The thing is, I can see no logical reason why the club did not appy given the serious position we were in.

I still suspect the EFL are being a little disingenuous in their reply to this question. The terms of the loan stated that it wasn't available to clubs in breach, or suspected of being in breach, of regulations. Clearly we were suspected of being in breach. If I was a betting man, my money would be on: we didn't apply because we knew we didn't meet the criteria (or were possibly even told by the EFL that we wouldn't be successful - clearly some communications was taking place regarding the loan) and the club asked for an extension in the hope of resolving the charges in time.

[atherstoneram]

10 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'd totally watch the unbiased state tv coverage we got in North Korea.

Just imagine the panic in Westminster and the Pentagon when the commentator announces "goal....rocket shot into the top corner".

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

49 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Macclesfield, Bury, Wigan, Were teams that were seriously taken advantage of by unscrupulous businessmen, 2 are no longer members of the EFL the other after almost a miraculous escape suffered relegation after a 12 point deduction...and are now doing well, Their fans had nothing to do with their outcome, The EFL who are the regulatory body and gate keepers failed miserably in their duty to protect them from people who only wanted to make money for themselves.

Bolton almost went the same way, Anderson who was the owner/major shareholder wouldn't budge with his demands, The EFL caved in and Anderson walked away with what he wanted.

The ELF signed off our accounts only for some one to complain Maguire/Gibson to force the EFL to take another look at DCFC, Eventually the outcome we all know.

MM set the ball in motion to get a better deal from Sky who had got the deal they wanted from the EFL, MM is on record with his comments that he and the EFL are at loggerheads with each other after he tried to get other Chairman involved in negotiating a better deal...The EFL have never forgiven him.

What's the comman denominator in all this...the Fans!!, No one cares about football supporters.

EGO EGO EGO, that’s what this whole ?⛈ stinks of

[jono]

10 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'd totally watch the unbiased state tv coverage we got in North Korea.

Wow and all those bad refs, sorry what bad refs ( now where is my anti aircraft gun firing squad ) . There would be posters of crazed Forest fans undermining the well-being of the populace. (Probably right in that particular case)

[DCFC27]

12 hours ago, GenBr said:

How do you know he does?

Even if he does still have significant assets its not all going to be cash.

Rich lists and whatnot are mostly guesswork and nonsense. 

I heard Maguire a few weeks back report that his other businesses have faired well. In this time.

Not all will be cash but he could (if he wanted to) cash in and put more money in the club to keep it going.
He just thinks that no one will buy it whilst he’s in charge so he’s left to speed up a purchase. By doing that though he has totally messed up the club. 
Personally, I think mortally he should cash in elsewhere and pay off the clubs (his) debts. Leave it in the position we were in prior to him taking over. If he did that he’d have found a buyer.
Unfortunately, I don’t think he sees it that way and the club has become a business transaction rather than his home town club. 

[Carl Sagan]

14 hours ago, angieram said:

Plus an ongoing embargo and EFL hardballing us over an "acceptable business plan". 

Don't expect the new owner will be able to do anything other than keep us ticking over to start with. We want them in quick, before we lose our young players. Boy, are we going to need them.

I was appalled to read the EFL response to the Ramstrust questions. @San Fran Van Ramsarticulated some of it, but this determination to see Derby under new owners sent down the leagues irrespective of the integrity of the competition they run, is just vindictive.

But what was worse for me was the wanton disregard for the welfare of our academy players who aren't allowed to be in the squad. Their plan can only be to try to destroy the Derby Academy by forcing the good prospects to leave in search of first team football. The fair and equitable solution would have been to establish a cutoff at the end of the transfer window and allow academy players to join the first team in addition to this. 

Again, I find it extraordinary that we have heard nothing from the PFA about this.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Chris_D said:

The EFL say in the Rams Trust doc that we didn't apply at all in time, asked for an extension that could not be given due to how late in the process it was, and were also not able to supply the required funding commitment for repayments, so all ties in as far as I can see and again falls to Mel not doing things correctly:

Q: Has the EFL denied Derby access to the Covid loans facility?
A: No. Derby County did not apply for the loan by the initial application date. Via the lending
facility, there was an extended application period through until 31 July. They still did not apply
and on 28 July it sought a further extension which the EFL couldn’t deliver as the external facility
required the repayment of all remaining funds prior to 31 July 2021. In addition, the Club was
still not a position to provide evidence as to its ability to repay the loan.

That all sounds very garbled and not consistent with publicly available information.

 

are they saying the loans had to be repaid by 31 July 2021? And we couldn’t commit to that ? If so Well I wouldn’t be surprised .. what’s the point of a loan to cover losses from COVID that needs to be repaid whilst those losses are still accumulating? 

[angieram]

8 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I was appalled to read the EFL response to the Ramstrust questions. @San Fran Van Ramsarticulated some of it, but this determination to see Derby under new owners sent down the leagues irrespective of the integrity of the competition they run, is just vindictive.

But what was worse for me was the wanton disregard for the welfare of our academy players who aren't allowed to be in the squad. Their plan can only be to try to destroy the Derby Academy by forcing the good prospects to leave in search of first team football. The fair and equitable solution would have been to establish a cutoff at the end of the transfer window and allow academy players to join the first team in addition to this. 

Again, I find it extraordinary that we have heard nothing from the PFA about this.

Firstly they want to see our demise (or as close to it as possible.)

Secondly, they will use our demise to hold up as an example that the current rules don't work, therefore the clubs and more importantly,  the EPL, must vote to change them.

It feels to me like we are collateral damage in a bigger battle.

The fact that we are a "big club" helps their case.

[Ghost of Clough]

13 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I was appalled to read the EFL response to the Ramstrust questions. @San Fran Van Ramsarticulated some of it, but this determination to see Derby under new owners sent down the leagues irrespective of the integrity of the competition they run, is just vindictive.

But what was worse for me was the wanton disregard for the welfare of our academy players who aren't allowed to be in the squad. Their plan can only be to try to destroy the Derby Academy by forcing the good prospects to leave in search of first team football. The fair and equitable solution would have been to establish a cutoff at the end of the transfer window and allow academy players to join the first team in addition to this. 

Again, I find it extraordinary that we have heard nothing from the PFA about this.

The EFL's argument was that we're free to use as many of them as we wish. It would just mean we would have to sell 'excess players' if we want to sign anyone during future transfer windows whilst under a hard embargo.

[Animal is a Ram]

https://news.sky.com/story/us-family-investment-firm-among-suitors-for-stricken-championship-club-Derby-county-12428940

Quote

An American family investment firm is among a pack of suitors weighing bids to buy Derby County, the stricken Championship football club, out of insolvency.

Sky News has learnt that Carlisle Capital, which was established by members of the Binnie family, the owners of a portfolio of media and industrial assets, is in talks with Derby County's administrators about a deal.

Carlisle Capital is one of about five parties deemed by Quantuma to be sufficiently credible to pursue meaningful discussions with.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Animal is a Ram

[Curtains]

The EFL just hate us and what’s more they love hating us 

EFL = !