Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[PistoldPete]

30 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Why would EFL not be more interested in making sure that Derby County avoid liquidation over all other options. If they were they could allow us to be taken over and then remove nine points when we have avoided liquidation. Okay it would mean that we would be sold for less money and creditors would get less or repayments could be rescheduled over a longer period. The letter if the law against the spirit of the law. Obviously if we avoid relegation then another club who did get relegated would have a major grievance but they already have a twelve point start on us.

It isn’t the letter of the law. EFL are not bound to pursue points deductions for FFP breaches. They are not forced to fo anything.

Edited October 8, 2021 by PistoldPete

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, one_chop said:

Can anyone give us any idea that at what point would Liquidation be unavoidable?

I think it’s when the admins reckon there is no realistic prospect of the club continuing as a going concern.

i e if they conclude that there is no buyer who is willing to pay enough to clear MSD, football creditors, 25% of unsecureds and whatever HMRC settles for plus the admins costs 

[CornwallRam]

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I think it’s when the admins reckon there is no realistic prospect of the club continuing as a going concern.

i e if they conclude that there is no buyer who is willing to pay enough to clear MSD, football creditors, 25% of unsecureds and whatever HMRC settles for plus the admins costs 

Also when the cash runs out to keep up with the day to day running costs. I think we're 'safe' until the summer as they seem relaxed enough about cashflow to keep the academy at full strength and January will give the opportunity for a fire sale.

No takeover by June and it'll be squeaky but time though.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Seems to be buyers are put off by the debt. Otherwise Derby would have been sold a long time ago. It’s sad because everything about the club should be very attractive to any buyer- stadium, fanbase, academy, profile, recent history of playoffs but instead the club does not have control of the stadium, has run up a huge amount of debt, financial mismanagement and now embroiled in points deductions and an owner who has dumped it into admin. 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

The fact they had our stadium 'valued' by a valuer that had zero experience in valuing football grounds, and appointed an expert witness on the amortization issues that had no experience with football finances or day-to-day accounting, would be a decent starting point.  And all at the expense of the other clubs in the league too.

Well yes .. and all the stories leaked to newspapers saying they had an independent valued who had valued the stadium at much less than Derby’s valuation. 
 

conveniently ignoring the fact that as Mel said on his interview with RD, Derby had used an independent valuer too… one who had considerably more standing and competence.

also the newspapers were told Derby had amortised players to non zero values at the end of their contracts. Also completely untrue . 
 

during the dispute with Efl , both sides were supposed to say nothing, yet the Efl version of events was always leaked to the media. 

[MuespachRam]

33 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Yes it is actually...pop round, see what they are saying.

Will do… I have just spoken to someone who knows the owner really well…

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, one_chop said:

Can anyone give us any idea that at what point would Liquidation be unavoidable?

When a creditor applies for liquidation and no buyer can be found who can stop that. 
 

or if sooner we run out of cash.

[Gladram]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

Let me know when you want me to go around on knock on their door, I live in Portsmouth NH….

Give it a couple of days. Don't want to put them off this early ?

[tinman]

2 hours ago, Coconut's Beard said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Harrison_Binnie

Not sure any that makes it sound like he's got the financial clout by himself to run the club, but seems to have had an interesting life, some decent business acumen (rather than just striking lucky), no major controversies and morally on the right side of things.

I'm sure we'd break him!

I’m always wary when groups involved in real estate start looking to buy football clubs. 

[GenBr]

5 hours ago, DCFC27 said:

I heard Maguire a few weeks back report that his other businesses have faired well. In this time.

Not all will be cash but he could (if he wanted to) cash in and put more money in the club to keep it going.
He just thinks that no one will buy it whilst he’s in charge so he’s left to speed up a purchase. By doing that though he has totally messed up the club. 
Personally, I think mortally he should cash in elsewhere and pay off the clubs (his) debts. Leave it in the position we were in prior to him taking over. If he did that he’d have found a buyer.
Unfortunately, I don’t think he sees it that way and the club has become a business transaction rather than his home town club. 

Just guesswork again though. You dont know how much cash is in his bank account. His other businesses doing well is pretty vague.

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

also the newspapers were told Derby had amortised players to non zero values at the end of their contracts. Also completely untrue 

To be fair (not that they deserve it etc), that's at least somewhat understandable.  The description in our accounts (that we were found guilty over) does kind of imply that we were doing that, and they did formally charge us with doing it.  So any newspaper 'leak' basically consists of them reading the official charge sheet.  The charge was dropped immediately at the hearing when it became obvious that we weren't doing that, of course.

[atherstoneram]

19 hours ago, angieram said:

Plus an ongoing embargo and EFL hardballing us over an "acceptable business plan". 

Don't expect the new owner will be able to do anything other than keep us ticking over to start with. We want them in quick, before we lose our young players. Boy, are we going to need them.

Since the HMRC now have a bigger say when clubs go into administration, imagine the administrators do possibly come to an arrangement with HMRC regarding the taxes owed it is not just the EFL who the administrators have to convince of an acceptable business plan they also have to convince the HMRC which appears to be easier said than done,there is a strict criteria laid down which the club/administrators must prove can be met, if not the HMRC will not support any commercial offer.

 

[Barney1991]

When you search Carlisle groups up it gets confused with Carlyle group who are a different group an i right. 
 

does he have other businesses as revenue of million a year is not a lot to run a football club. Does anyone know if other people own the group aswell who are more wealthy as I have seen he’s worth less than Mel is 

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

I think it’s when the admins reckon there is no realistic prospect of the club continuing as a going concern.

i e if they conclude that there is no buyer who is willing to pay enough to clear MSD, football creditors, 25% of unsecureds and whatever HMRC settles for plus the admins costs 

What is your best guess as to how much would then be.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

I think it’s when the admins reckon there is no realistic prospect of the club continuing as a going concern.

i e if they conclude that there is no buyer who is willing to pay enough to clear MSD, football creditors, 25% of unsecureds and whatever HMRC settles for plus the admins costs 

But you can still get a situation like Bury whose Company is still in admin even though the are not competing in any League at the moment due to being banished from EFL. There has been no winding up order as far as I know.

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

But you can still get a situation like Bury whose Company is still in admin even though the are not competing in any League at the moment due to being banished from EFL. There has been no winding up order as far as I know.

It just seems now that HMRC have changed the rules it is a lot more complicated for a club to come out of administration than it used to be.

[Ram-Alf]

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

But you can still get a situation like Bury whose Company is still in admin even though the are not competing in any League at the moment due to being banished from EFL. There has been no winding up order as far as I know.

Steve Dale who bought Bury for £1 still owns the ground i believe...but not the badge ?

BURY AFC have won their battle to prevent controversial businessman Steve Dale trademarking the Bury FC badge in his name. In July 2020, the Bury FC owner applied to the UK Intellectual Property Office (IPO) to register a trade mark containing the crest of Bury FC and which included the town of Bury's coat of arms.

[Flying Fokker]

5 hours ago, angieram said:

Firstly they want to see our demise (or as close to it as possible.)

Secondly, they will use our demise to hold up as an example that the current rules don't work, therefore the clubs and more importantly,  the EPL, must vote to change them.

It feels to me like we are collateral damage in a bigger battle.

The fact that we are a "big club" helps their case.

Glass half-full?  I saw a lot of this angst being played out on Coventry City Forums.  I think you will survive.  You have the best supported club in the Midlands apart from Vile.  Passion makes up for lack of bums on seats.  One way or another you will get through this as a group of supporters.  Derby had points deductions for Admin in the past.  

I just hope you move forward once out of Admin.  The prem needs more clubs from the Midlands in it. 

 

 

[Rambalin]

New owners may only have to pay up front say the HMRC and it is possible it could be a negotiated amount smaller than reported. 

They then just takeover the repayment schedule with MSD this reduces the initial outlay by a considerable amount making it nowhere near the headline amounts in the press. 

I am just speculating here I have no idea if this is permissable under the rules. 

 

 

 

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

It just seems now that HMRC have changed the rules it is a lot more complicated for a club to come out of administration than it used to be.

I don't really see what HMRC has to do with it.

Bury are still in adminstration but they went into adminstration before HMRC changed the rules anyway.    Their major problem is they don't have club that is currently  playing football in any League.