Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[atherstoneram]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

I don't really see what HMRC has to do with it.

Bury are still in adminstration but they went into adminstration before HMRC changed the rules anyway.    Their major problem is they don't have club that is currently  playing football in any League.

 

I am on about us or any team in the future that goes into administration with some of the debt being to HMRC

[Topram]

Who are the Binnie family? Nothing about that anywhere

[MuespachRam]

30 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

When you search Carlisle groups up it gets confused with Carlyle group who are a different group an i right. 
 

does he have other businesses as revenue of million a year is not a lot to run a football club. Does anyone know if other people own the group aswell who are more wealthy as I have seen he’s worth less than Mel is 

The dude that owns the Carlisle group is a local businessman over here, not especially wealthy at all, he is kind of a local legend and not always in a good way....everyone in town has had dealings with him about something or other...

[MuespachRam]

1 minute ago, Topram said:

Who are the Binnie family? Nothing about that anywhere

Portsmouth New Hampshire company. Local dude, involved in everything up here.

[Barney1991]

3 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

The dude that owns the Carlisle group is a local businessman over here, not especially wealthy at all, he is kind of a local legend and not always in a good way....everyone in town has had dealings with him about something or other...

Will he have other people with him then I’m guessing as there’s no way he’s taking it on his own with how much he’s worth? Is there other investors owners of the group 

[PistoldPete]

42 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

To be fair (not that they deserve it etc), that's at least somewhat understandable.  The description in our accounts (that we were found guilty over) does kind of imply that we were doing that, and they did formally charge us with doing it.  So any newspaper 'leak' basically consists of them reading the official charge sheet.  The charge was dropped immediately at the hearing when it became obvious that we weren't doing that, of course.

The description in the accounts was made in 2015/16. Personally I though it was obvious that "residual values" meant residual value during the contract, not at the end of it. If they really thought, on the basis of how it was described then, that  we were doing something as stupid as assigning players non-zero values at the end of contracts when they could leave on a Bosman, why did they wait until January 2020 to do anything about it, and why did they not check with us first before charging us and only then having to drop the silly charge?

 

 

 

 

[Abu Derby]

Is this group owt to do with Belinda Carlisle? If it is then we’ll be sorted. 

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

I am on about us or any team in the future that goes into administration with some of the debt being to HMRC

Well in that case  we don't know what will happen. No reason to believe that administration will go on for a long time because of HMRC.  The change in rules doesn't really change that much. HMRC are ranked behind football debts and behind (I think) secured debts.  

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Portsmouth New Hampshire company. Local dude, involved in everything up here.

Gonna be our own rhinestone cowboy?

[Carnero]

18 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Will he have other people with him then I’m guessing as there’s no way he’s taking it on his own with how much he’s worth? Is there other investors owners of the group 

It wouldn't be Binnie buying it as an individual, sounds like it would be a Private Equity deal. 

https://theconversation.com/football-in-europe-is-being-transformed-by-us-private-equity-firms-heres-how-157445

 

[jono]

2 hours ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Seems to be buyers are put off by the debt. Otherwise Derby would have been sold a long time ago. It’s sad because everything about the club should be very attractive to any buyer- stadium, fanbase, academy, profile, recent history of playoffs but instead the club does not have control of the stadium, has run up a huge amount of debt, financial mismanagement and now embroiled in points deductions and an owner who has dumped it into admin. 

It isn’t the buyers. The Admin works on behalf of the creditors .. their job is to get the best possible outcome for the creditors. No more no less. 

That can be : A ) find a buyer (S) offering a certain sum which the creditors either accept or decline. That sum might or might not include taking on some of the existing debt. The buyer can offer anything from a quid and no debt acceptance, to the same quid and a proportion of the debt … it’s absolutely up to the creditors to accept or not. It’s a balancing act. Too stingy or unworkable and the creditors decline and we go to option B

B ) in the event that a buyer can’t be found and daily running costs mean there is no other option than to cease trading activities, any remaining assets are liquidated (basically players, land, and buildings will be sold ) and turned in to cash that is distributed according to a list of priorities. 

As I understand it MSD have a preferential status based on conditions in the loan so in all probability in terms of liquidation there won’t be much left after MSD have talked their slice

There is a C) when everything has unravelled someone reforms DCFC and we apply for entry in the Football league and look forward to playing Matlock, Mickleover Sports, Buxton and a big day out to FC United of Manchester. Mel lets us use pride park … and you know what there would be crowds. This is a football town said someone once a long time ago. 
 

If there’s a half decent stadium and some black and white shirts I’ll be there. …names gentlemen please  (and all other genders / sexes / non binaries -  obviousy  ) 

County of Derby 

Derby City

Derby United

Derby Rams

Derby Academicals

Derby EFL Nightmare mare on Green Lane 

 

[Barney1991]

20 minutes ago, Carnero said:

It wouldn't be Binnie buying it as an individual, sounds like it would be a Private Equity deal. 

https://theconversation.com/football-in-europe-is-being-transformed-by-us-private-equity-firms-heres-how-157445

 

So they’ll loan the money to buy us then and then sell future shares to other investors from my gathering. A bit like the Burnley takeover then? Not overly excited about that tbh but here we are 

[DCFC Kicks]

1 minute ago, jono said:

It isn’t the buyers. The Admin works on behalf of the creditors .. their job is to get the best possible outcome for the creditors. No more no less. 

That can be : A ) find a buyer (S) offering a certain sum which the creditors either accept or decline. That sum might or might not include taking on some of the existing debt. The buyer can offer anything from a quid and no debt acceptance, to the same quid and a proportion of the debt … it’s absolutely up to the creditors to accept or not. It’s a balancing act. Too stingy or unworkable and the creditors decline and we go to option B

B ) in the event that a buyer can’t be found and daily running costs mean there is no other option than to cease trading activities, any remaining assets are liquidated (basically players, land, and buildings will be sold ) and turned in to cash that is distributed according to a list of priorities. 

As I understand it MSD have a preferential status based on conditions in the loan so in all probability in terms of liquidation there won’t be much left after MSD have talked their slice

There is a C) when everything has unravelled someone reforms DCFC and we apply for entry in the Football league and look forward to playing Matlock, Mickleover Sports, Buxton and a big day out to FC United of Manchester. Mel lets us use pride park … and you know what there would be crowds. This is a football town said someone once a long time ago. 
 

If there’s a half decent stadium and some black and white shirts I’ll be there. …names gentlemen please  (and all other genders / sexes / non binaries -  obviousy  ) 

County of Derby 

Derby City

Derby United

Derby Rams

Derby Academicals

Derby EFL Nightmare mare on Green Lane 

 

Darby County 

[duncanjwitham]

35 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The description in the accounts was made in 2015/16. Personally I though it was obvious that "residual values" meant residual value during the contract, not at the end of it. If they really thought, on the basis of how it was described then, that  we were doing something as stupid as assigning players non-zero values at the end of contracts when they could leave on a Bosman, why did they wait until January 2020 to do anything about it, and why did they not check with us first before charging us and only then having to drop the silly charge?

I think (not an expert etc) that “residual value” is quite precisely defined for accounting purposes. It’s “value at the end of useful life” according to a quick google, which definitely does imply a value at the end of contract. Can’t argue with the rest of your post though.

[PistoldPete]

7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I think (not an expert etc) that “residual value” is quite precisely defined for accounting purposes. It’s “value at the end of useful life” according to a quick google, which definitely does imply a value at the end of contract. Can’t argue with the rest of your post though.

Yes you are right. But surely common sense shoudl have suggested it was just a misuse of a techincal term  rather than something more serious , and if in doubt why not just check with the club?

If i said my wife worked as a paedophile in the local hospital would you call the police,  or maybe with some common sense figure that I had accidentally just used the wrong word and actually meant paediatrician? 

 

[duncanjwitham]

10 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes you are right. But surely common sense shoudl have suggested it was just a misuse of a techincal term  rather than something more serious , and if in doubt why not just check with the club?

If i said my wife worked as a paedophile in the local hospital would you call the police,  or maybe with some common sense figure that I had accidentally just used the wrong word and actually meant paediatrician? 

There were definitely a few hints in some of the written reports about Mel pretty much refusing to engage with the EFL over this stuff, so I do wonder if they tried to discuss it with us and we just refused (“our accountants have signed it off, so it’s none of your businesses” type stuff).  Hard to know exactly where to apportion blame when both parties seem tragically incompetent.

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

There were definitely a few hints in some of the written reports about Mel pretty much refusing to engage with the EFL over this stuff, so I do wonder if they tried to discuss it with us and we just refused (“our accountants have signed it off, so it’s none of your businesses” type stuff).  Hard to know exactly where to apportion blame when both parties seem tragically incompetent.

Like I say why did it take EFL four years  to bring a charge then?

 

 

[i-Ram]

29 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes you are right. But surely common sense shoudl have suggested it was just a misuse of a techincal term  rather than something more serious , and if in doubt why not just check with the club?

If i said my wife worked as a paedophile in the local hospital would you call the police,  or maybe with some common sense figure that I had accidentally just used the wrong word and actually meant paediatrician? 

Your wife’s a paedo, and you allow her to work in a hospital??  FFS man. What are you thinking.

[duncanjwitham]

28 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Like I say why did it take EFL four years  to bring a charge then?

Incompetence, laziness, who knows… ?‍♂️

Honestly, there are much bigger things to criticise the EFL for than this IMO.

[Hordh]

42 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Like I say why did it take EFL four years  to bring a charge then?

 

 

Penfold left and Parry came in.