Paul Warne

[sage]

1 minute ago, Comrade 86 said:

Odd that you show no such empathy for those who were roundly mocked for supporting Warne though. The idiots, the deluded, the blind faithers, the happy clappers, the clueless, Warne fanbois, et al, ad nauseum. You've made dozens of posts supporting those who wanted Warne out, yet not a single one I can recall for those who felt that stance to be shortsighted.

The fact is, suggesting this was entirely a one-way interaction isn't the action of an 'adult' either and is just a derisive and divisive as those comments you'd see sanctioned.

I genuinely saw very little name calling from people who were more critical. Blind fathers and happy clappers are NC era comments and I know, I was called both.

I'm not fan if it did happen.  My point for the 18th time is...People should be allowed to give an opinion, have a debate on anything dcfc as long asbits constructive.

I'm not even massively critical myself, I just think debate has been closed down several times. 

 

[Comrade 86]

14 minutes ago, sage said:

I genuinely saw very little name calling from people who were more critical.

 

How very convenient. Also absolute nonsense, I'm afraid, but I guess you're being shut down again now, by your own rather singular metrics, so I'll leave you to try to convince others instead. 

[sage]

3 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

How very convenient. Also absolute nonsense, I'm afraid, but I guess you're being shut down again now, by your own rather singular metrics, so I'll leave you to try to convince others instead. 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so rude. 

[Jourdan]

Guys, concentrate on the play-off push.

Who cares who was right and who was wrong?

[Eddie]

No names, but some of the comments in the "Warne Out Out" thread are just embarrassing.

Quote

Get this loser out of my club. Absolutely sick of his tactics his cringeworthy interviews & his range of headwear. 

 

Quote

If our budget for next season was £2mil, hypothetically, then I’d rather spend £1.5m of that getting rid of Warne & have a new bloke with 500k, rather than Warne with £2mil.

The season isn’t a write off, we can still easily make the top 6. I think that only happens if he goes.

 

Quote

Warne is a vampire that’s drained us of any joy or hope.

 

Quote

He's a pub manager at best 

 

Quote

I’m not sure how, if you’re a Warne fan, you can genuinely believe that this type of football will lead to promotion.

 

Quote

At what point will the 'Give him timers' run out of patience?

 

That's just from the first couple of pages. No further comment from me required.

[Walkley Ram]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

No names, but some of the comments in the "Warne Out Out" thread are just embarrassing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's just from the first couple of pages. No further comment from me required.

Wasn't that thread from October, when things were looking absolutely dire on the pitch? I appreciate it's a results business, but at the time we were getting neither the results nor a performance. We'd barely troubled the top six the previous season, and looked set to repeat the same again.

The message was sent loud and clear that it wasn't good enough. Had things carried on in the same manner, he'd have been out of a job. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. It's also important that Warne at this point was freely admitting things were nowhere near good enough. It wasn't just us Warne outers that were critical. He was agreeing with us.

Credit given to all involved that following that "altercation" with Hourihane and the fans, results did improve. And that was despite key players being out injured. I absolutely think that the toxicity at the time knocked some reality into the players and staff. I think it was their make or break time. I also absolutely think we'd be nowhere near second had we all just clapped them off every game, and quietly accepted whatever garbage was being served up. I truly think it was the moment the penny dropped for the club. And it was needed.

I think that point in time, when the Warne doubt was at it's highest, that neither camp was wrong. One camp were fed up with things as they were in reality. One camp were optimistic things would improve. I'd also argue both camps were right because despite results improving, arguably the football didn't. So some very valid questions remained.

However it's results that get you up, so most sane doubters were placated. And we did go up. Because we're Derby and we're brilliant, regardless of who's in charge.

But I'm always wrong, so feel free to disagree.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Wasn't that thread from October, when things were looking absolutely dire on the pitch? I appreciate it's a results business, but at the time we were getting neither the results nor a performance. We'd barely troubled the top six the previous season, and looked set to repeat the same again.

The message was sent loud and clear that it wasn't good enough. Had things carried on in the same manner, he'd have been out of a job. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. It's also important that Warne at this point was freely admitting things were nowhere near good enough. It wasn't just us Warne outers that were critical. He was agreeing with us.

Credit given to all involved that following that "altercation" with Hourihane and the fans, results did improve. And that was despite key players being out injured. I absolutely think that the toxicity at the time knocked some reality into the players and staff. I think it was their make or break time. I also absolutely think we'd be nowhere near second had we all just clapped them off every game, and quietly accepted whatever garbage was being served up. I truly think it was the moment the penny dropped for the club. And it was needed.

I think that point in time, when the Warne doubt was at it's highest, that neither camp was wrong. One camp were fed up with things as they were in reality. One camp were optimistic things would improve. I'd also argue both camps were right because despite results improving, arguably the football didn't. So some very valid questions remained.

However it's results that get you up, so most sane doubters were placated. And we did go up. Because we're Derby and we're brilliant, regardless of who's in charge.

But I'm always wrong, so feel free to disagree.

I think those comments came in the immediate aftermath of the defeat at Shrewsbury. Whilst the sentiments might have been valid at the time, the way some people expressed them were not. Perhaps a reason why we should all take a moment before posting after a disappointing defeat rather than ranting whilst emotions are high.

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Wasn't that thread from October, when things were looking absolutely dire on the pitch? I appreciate it's a results business, but at the time we were getting neither the results nor a performance. We'd barely troubled the top six the previous season, and looked set to repeat the same again.

The message was sent loud and clear that it wasn't good enough. Had things carried on in the same manner, he'd have been out of a job. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. It's also important that Warne at this point was freely admitting things were nowhere near good enough. It wasn't just us Warne outers that were critical. He was agreeing with us.

Credit given to all involved that following that "altercation" with Hourihane and the fans, results did improve. And that was despite key players being out injured. I absolutely think that the toxicity at the time knocked some reality into the players and staff. I think it was their make or break time. I also absolutely think we'd be nowhere near second had we all just clapped them off every game, and quietly accepted whatever garbage was being served up. I truly think it was the moment the penny dropped for the club. And it was needed.

I think that point in time, when the Warne doubt was at it's highest, that neither camp was wrong. One camp were fed up with things as they were in reality. One camp were optimistic things would improve. I'd also argue both camps were right because despite results improving, arguably the football didn't. So some very valid questions remained.

However it's results that get you up, so most sane doubters were placated. And we did go up. Because we're Derby and we're brilliant, regardless of who's in charge.

But I'm always wrong, so feel free to disagree.

You’re correct, with my patient optimism I have always been right! And some people have also always been correct in their concerns. But mainly I was right 😉 

I think the door has swung both ways with the more vocal minority on either side of the argument quick to goad, dismiss, mock, label all season long. Looking at it objectively the following concerns have been raised, some of them are valid and some were clearly short sighted and spiteful, the evidence is there if you go looking from all sides. These are summarised/paraphrased points to try and capture all sides ;

- “Warne doesn’t have any pull” (disagree here as we’ve signed some effective players this season… and gambled with some injury prone ones)

- which brings me to point two, “he’s been operating with restrictions so we should be patient.” I always felt there was some logic to this and also agree with the points made that we still could have recruited better when you look at some of the other free agents signed up by our rivals. Overall the group we had were effective and got the job done, hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is I can’t help but wonder if we’d have won the league with a couple of different options.

- “he only signs old players/cloggers/former Rotherham players” biggest short sighted load of nonsense out of all the criticism for me and one point I’ve been at pains to counter for the last 2 seasons. It’s a generalised and ill informed view that ignores the restrictions at play and also the likes of Nyambe, Adams, Nelson, Wilson, Elder, Ward, TJJ, none of whom are ancient or cloggers or former Warne players.

- “players don’t want to play for him/he’s a glorified PE teacher/fitness coach” always felt this was unfair and it’s clear by the end of the season that this squad did want to play for him and he’s got a little more about him than some would credit. His man management seems to be a big strength and one people have been quick to dismiss, surely he deserves credit for getting the team over the line even if they are “the best players in the league” and he’s “just done what’s expected of him” 😉 

- “he’s tactically limited” this is one of the big ones and hard to fully pick apart without a good dialogue from all sides. Part of me agrees and sees it from the football purists point of view that we don’t typically control the ball and control games so see why folks have issues there. But also he has adapted all season, used different shapes, different combinations and still got the job done. It seems to be a case of pragmatism over style which then comes down to preference as many have expressed, it’s not for them that’s fair enough, and others (like myself) are happy seeing us score goals and win regardless of style (which is also fair enough). Though my biggest and remaining complaint with him will seemingly always be his timing of subs, a couple of times this season he’s nailed it (can’t remember specific games) but there have been others when a change was desperately needed and he’s done nowt….come on Paul, save my blood pressure next season please. It’ll be interesting to see how he adapts in the championship with Derby, but I think he’s earned that right.

- “the football is dire”, another difficult one to reconcile personally for me as I’ve enjoyed it but I get that people want more control in midfield, more passing etc so again it’s a complicated point to discuss with more nuance. Personally I’ve enjoyed winning lots, scoring plenty, improving away and ultimately going up automatically but it could have been smoother sailing for sure.

- “he doesn’t trust young players”, another of the biggies that so far seems to be evident and is more a wait and see thing for me. He definitely could/should have used the pizza cup to blood a few more youngsters this season then perhaps they’d have been ready to plug gaps when injury struck. However I also see Warne’s point about not throwing them in and “ruining them”, he’s essentially done the job this season but given the investment in the academy and his key it in theory will be to the clubs future this is one he must do better on.

- “his interviews are *insert positive/derogatory comment*” this is all down to personal preference, some like his interview style and some don’t, if that’s how you feel it doesn’t make you factually wrong it’s just an opinion. 
 

- “give him time”, seems so far to have been the right shout, earlier in the season understandably more and more people had concerns, I even had my own mini wobble, but essentially the patience appears to have paid off (for this season at least….what happens next we have to wait and see).

There may be other points but I’ve got to do the school run so feel free to pile on and tell me what I missed and where I’m wrong. My point here is that there are valid concerns all round, and plenty to discuss respectfully, we all want what’s best for the club. 

[Crewton]

9 hours ago, CBX1985 said:

I quite like Warne. He has a nice sense of humour and seems to have a vision. Truth is, before he became our manager I'd never heard of him.  Clowes rated him so that was enough for me. He was given one objective: get us up.  He's achieved that.

There are many who don't like him - whether it is is football, his David Brent jokes or his bobblehat.  That I have no problem with; I am no loyalist to him only the club. 

What I personally find frustrating is these points are masked with constantly moving goalposts - "players won't sign for him"... when they do it becomes: "he needs to stop media interviews, he is alienating them"... "we are losing, he doesn't understand tactics and is "naive" "... when they win it becomes "we were always going to win this league, he doesn't have the ability to win a league above - he's not a Championship specialist".  Just like a doomsday cult, when midnight arrives and the worst doesn't happen the deadline can move rather than admit, maybe, we need to rethink our position. Maybe he will fail, but he has been successful so far.   

What we need to do, in my view, is stick on what we want - and make that tangible and definable.  Without that, debate is hard as the grounds for that debate will shift as easy as sand in the Sahara.   Before writing this I read some of the season predictions. Promotion with second was a success for practically everyone.  What has changed?

 

Well put.

[sage]

53 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I think those comments came in the immediate aftermath of the defeat at Shrewsbury. Whilst the sentiments might have been valid at the time, the way some people expressed them were not. Perhaps a reason why we should all take a moment before posting after a disappointing defeat rather than ranting whilst emotions are high.

So comments were silly but shouldn't be used against all posters.

[Crewton]

19 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

You’re correct, with my patient optimism I have always been right! And some people have also always been correct in their concerns. But mainly I was right 😉 

I think the door has swung both ways with the more vocal minority on either side of the argument quick to goad, dismiss, mock, label all season long. Looking at it objectively the following concerns have been raised, some of them are valid and some were clearly short sighted and spiteful, the evidence is there if you go looking from all sides. These are summarised/paraphrased points to try and capture all sides ;

- “Warne doesn’t have any pull” (disagree here as we’ve signed some effective players this season… and gambled with some injury prone ones)

- which brings me to point two, “he’s been operating with restrictions so we should be patient.” I always felt there was some logic to this and also agree with the points made that we still could have recruited better when you look at some of the other free agents signed up by our rivals. Overall the group we had were effective and got the job done, hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is I can’t help but wonder if we’d have won the league with a couple of different options.

- “he only signs old players/cloggers/former Rotherham players” biggest short sighted load of nonsense out of all the criticism for me and one point I’ve been at pains to counter for the last 2 seasons. It’s a generalised and ill informed view that ignores the restrictions at play and also the likes of Nyambe, Adams, Nelson, Wilson, Elder, Ward, TJJ, none of whom are ancient or cloggers or former Warne players.

- “players don’t want to play for him/he’s a glorified PE teacher/fitness coach” always felt this was unfair and it’s clear by the end of the season that this squad did want to play for him and he’s got a little more about him than some would credit. His man management seems to be a big strength and one people have been quick to dismiss, surely he deserves credit for getting the team over the line even if they are “the best players in the league” and he’s “just done what’s expected of him” 😉 

- “he’s tactically limited” this is one of the big ones and hard to fully pick apart without a good dialogue from all sides. Part of me agrees and sees it from the football purists point of view that we don’t typically control the ball and control games so see why folks have issues there. But also he has adapted all season, used different shapes, different combinations and still got the job done. It seems to be a case of pragmatism over style which then comes down to preference as many have expressed, it’s not for them that’s fair enough, and others (like myself) are happy seeing us score goals and win regardless of style (which is also fair enough). Though my biggest and remaining complaint with him will seemingly always be his timing of subs, a couple of times this season he’s nailed it (can’t remember specific games) but there have been others when a change was desperately needed and he’s done nowt….come on Paul, save my blood pressure next season please. It’ll be interesting to see how he adapts in the championship with Derby, but I think he’s earned that right.

- “the football is dire”, another difficult one to reconcile personally for me as I’ve enjoyed it but I get that people want more control in midfield, more passing etc so again it’s a complicated point to discuss with more nuance. Personally I’ve enjoyed winning lots, scoring plenty, improving away and ultimately going up automatically but it could have been smoother sailing for sure.

- “he doesn’t trust young players”, another of the biggies that so far seems to be evident and is more a wait and see thing for me. He definitely could/should have used the pizza cup to blood a few more youngsters this season then perhaps they’d have been ready to plug gaps when injury struck. However I also see Warne’s point about not throwing them in and “ruining them”, he’s essentially done the job this season but given the investment in the academy and his key it in theory will be to the clubs future this is one he must do better on.

- “his interviews are *insert positive/derogatory comment*” this is all down to personal preference, some like his interview style and some don’t, if that’s how you feel it doesn’t make you factually wrong it’s just an opinion. 
 

- “give him time”, seems so far to have been the right shout, earlier in the season understandably more and more people had concerns, I even had my own mini wobble, but essentially the patience appears to have paid off (for this season at least….what happens next we have to wait and see).

There may be other points but I’ve got to do the school run so feel free to pile on and tell me what I missed and where I’m wrong. My point here is that there are valid concerns all round, and plenty to discuss respectfully, we all want what’s best for the club. 

Also well put.

[jono]

10 hours ago, sage said:

It's not disagreeing about the points being made though. 

Unless you discuss the details, it's just taking a side.

Calling names doesn't just mean you don't agree. Not if you're an adult.

Well it seems from this the only one name calling is you. 
You started on about bullying and alleged people were being shut down I responded with my take on why that wasn’t the case. Can you honestly say you have reasonably addressed my various counter arguments. Nope just suggested I am not an adult. 

[Crewton]

I've always believed in giving manager's time. The only manager I can recall actively calling for the removal of was Tommy Docherty. I agreed with the removal of both John Gregory and Phil Brown because the situation was desperate at the time, though I had sympathy for the latter because of the difficulties of working under that particular regime. I always thought that calls for Warne's sacking were shortsighted and that some posters went well beyond reasonable criticism, and I think I made my views pretty clear along the way. The proliferation of anti-Warne threads were spoiling the forum. Some posters seemed to be on personal missions to get the manager out, fortunately few of them were "regulars".

The only thing that really matters is that David Clowes stayed loyal to his man, a quality I greatly admire. There's always room to improve some aspect of performance, style and results, and I appreciated the contributions of those who have identified those aspects and put their arguments across thoughtfully. I'd like to think that within the management team those aspects have also been identified and will be addressed, budget permitting in some cases, but for now let's just enjoy stage one of "mission accomplished".

Edited April 30 by Crewton

[Tamworthram]

20 minutes ago, sage said:

So comments were silly but shouldn't be used against all posters.

Sorry, I don’t get what you mean. If you’re saying not all comments were over the top then yes.

Some people, as many of us have done from time to time, probably overreacted and lashed out with over the top comments when emotions were high. 

[sage]

35 minutes ago, jono said:

Well it seems from this the only one name calling is you. 
You started on about bullying and alleged people were being shut down I responded with my take on why that wasn’t the case. Can you honestly say you have reasonably addressed my various counter arguments. Nope just suggested I am not an adult. 

Thanks for twisting my words.

You suggested that name calling or putting labels on people just means you don't agree. I replied that that wasn't an adult approach.

You weren't name calling so it didn't apply directly to you. 

Anyway as you suggest we'll have to agree to disagree as this is going nowhere.

 

 

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I think those comments came in the immediate aftermath of the defeat at Shrewsbury. Whilst the sentiments might have been valid at the time, the way some people expressed them were not. Perhaps a reason why we should all take a moment before posting after a disappointing defeat rather than ranting whilst emotions are high.

What really bugged me through the season wasn't so much the post-match comments but some of the tripe being spouted as soon as the starting eleven was announced. After a poor display it's totally understandable that there's going to be some flack flying around but instead of waiting to see the actual match outcome and then commenting, it was as though a handful of posters (and I'm sure most of us can guess who) were champing at the but to stick the knife in.

For now (apart from the occasional laughingi imoji) they've mostly gone silent and I for one am enjoying the peace and serenity that a successful promotion brings.

[YorkshireRam]

10 hours ago, sage said:

I genuinely saw very little name calling from people who were more critical.

[Grumpy Git]

It's Tuesday, is it too early to start a new 'Warne Out' thread?

[RadioactiveWaste]

36 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

It's Tuesday, is it too early to start a new 'Warne Out' thread?

Open views and discussion are essential to the forum, but on the other hand we must take firm measures to ensure the purity of the faith and heathen unbelievers must be purged.

No one expects the Paul Warne inquisition!

*Tis a joke

[sage]

51 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Or true.Eddie found one example. 

I don't approve from either side. My whole argument is constructive debate is fine and those in a minority or perceived minority should be respected.

I'm not sure why this is deemed to be controversial 🤔 

 

Edited April 30 by sage