Paul Warne

[Day]

30 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

I made a remark to you that in the days leading up to a stunning promotion it is absurd to have a "debate" about the manager's future.

I'm also guilty of questioning the timing of certain posts/topics, including one of Sage's, the summer transfer suggestion thread, which in my opinion was absurd to be thinking about in February when we had no idea what league we would be in.

The topic remains open, into page 39, doesn't change my opinion that it should have been a conversation to be starting this week.

Same with Paul Warne's future and worrying about the style of football in the Championship. We're there now, makes sense if those want to voice their concerns. 

There is a huge difference though between being told you cannot talk about something, quiet, sssh, lock it and voicing an opinion which questions the timing. 

I also think most regular members should be able to read the room at this stage, you know roughly where people stand and if you're going to throw out a controversial take 10 minutes after the final whistle after gaining promotion, kinda got to accept the criticism you would get for that.

Also, theres been some goading from the other side if you like following promotion, forcing humble pie down someone's throat will only be spat back in your face. If you actually read what those critical of Warne are saying, promotion wouldn't change the concern they have going forward, so yeah, lose the first 2 or 3 I'm sure we'll be back to the same debate.

Although for me, if you give the manager the summer, got to give them until Christmas then barring any complete and utter disaster situation which we saw under Pearson.

All in my opinion of course. 

[jono]

16 minutes ago, Day said:

I'm also guilty of questioning the timing of certain posts/topics, including one of Sage's, the summer transfer suggestion thread, which in my opinion was absurd to be thinking about in February when we had no idea what league we would be in.

The topic remains open, into page 39, doesn't change my opinion that it should have been a conversation to be starting this week.

Same with Paul Warne's future and worrying about the style of football in the Championship. We're there now, makes sense if those want to voice their concerns. 

There is a huge difference though between being told you cannot talk about something, quiet, sssh, lock it and voicing an opinion which questions the timing. 

I also think most regular members should be able to read the room at this stage, you know roughly where people stand and if you're going to throw out a controversial take 10 minutes after the final whistle after gaining promotion, kinda got to accept the criticism you would get for that.

Also, theres been some goading from the other side if you like following promotion, forcing humble pie down someone's throat will only be spat back in your face. If you actually read what those critical of Warne are saying, promotion wouldn't change the concern they have going forward, so yeah, lose the first 2 or 3 I'm sure we'll be back to the same debate.

Although for me, if you give the manager the summer, got to give them until Christmas then barring any complete and utter disaster situation which we saw under Pearson.

All in my opinion of course. 

I don’t think you’re guilty of Anything. I think we all voice opinions and in voicing them need to accept that some won’t agree with us. That could be timing or content. I think I have just “gone off on one” because, although I am always right 😉) I am also always a liberal and believe in honest free speech. I disliked and reacted to Sage suggesting there was bullying … I saw none. I saw angry views exchanged by passionate fans ( some of whom I don’t always agree with 🤪)

At the end of my last post I remarked about this sidelining of the crux of an argument, in favour of slurring an opponent’s  (in the debate) character. I don’t  like it, it is a snide tactic, a below the belt attempt to disable those you disagree with.  

[Nuwtfly]

40 minutes ago, Day said:

IIf you actually read what those critical of Warne are saying, promotion wouldn't change the concern they have going forward, so yeah, lose the first 2 or 3 I'm sure we'll be back to the same debate.

Although for me, if you give the manager the summer, got to give them until Christmas then barring any complete and utter disaster situation which we saw under Pearson.

All in my opinion of course. 

I've made it quite clear that I haven't enjoyed the way we've played this season and I'm not totally sold on Warne being the one. He's proven himself to be, as John Percy described him today, The King of League One. How good he is in the Championship remains to be seen but the evidence we have to go on so far suggests he isn't too great there.

With all that being said, he has absolutely 100% earned the right to lead us into this campaign. He's 100% earned the right to sign 8/9 players and shape this squad how he wants it. And he should 100% be given the time to have a decent crack at this division with that squad (so for me that's Christmas).

I can't promise I won't be groaning on here if we serve up some of the same football we have this season. But I won't be calling for him to go unless something utterly disastrous happens. And that's from someone who isn't sold on Warne.

Edited April 29 by Nuwtfly

[sage]

3 hours ago, jono said:

 

 

I really don’t understand this attitude that is becoming all too evident these days. It seems to be … I don’t like your stance but I am not going to argue it out with you, instead I am going to stop you arguing with me by attributing some dire character trait to your personality … You’re a bully, Your a lefty / righty or a sexist, a racist or a “phobe” of one.

 

That's the whole point I'm making. People weren't debating with critics, they were just slagging them off or saying you can't criticise now.

'Warne haters' is the term most used 

I personally don't bullied, however debates have been 'shut down'. Anyway do feel free to continue dismissing my point and inadvertently making it.

 

 

[sage]

3 hours ago, CBX1985 said:

I made a remark to you that in the days leading up to a stunning promotion it is absurd to have a "debate" about the manager's future.  No one told you you cannot discuss what you like but merely your position would be liable to appear ridiculous in the circumstances in the same way, say, an internal campaign to have a CEO fired for wildly outperforming his extremely challenging profit target, would have.

  

If you can't see the irony in that...

[jono]

1 hour ago, sage said:

That's the whole point I'm making. People weren't debating with critics, they were just slagging them off or saying you can't criticise now.

'Warne haters' is the term most used 

I personally don't bullied, however debates have been 'shut down'. Anyway do feel free to continue dismissing my point and inadvertently making it.

 

 

I rather think you’ve made my point. We have a disagreement. You seem to think persistently disagreeing with someone could equate to bullying,  or shutting down a debate. It isn’t.
It is quite simple, neither of us have convinced the other of the validity of our arguments, we thus remain in discord. 
 

Warne haters, happy clappy merchants, doomsayers .. just generalised descriptions of groupings sharing mind sets or opinions. It labeling, all sides of all arguments do it. Being given a label by someone else doesn’t make them victim of bullying. It just means t someone doesn’t agree with you. 

[sage]

2 minutes ago, jono said:

I rather think you’ve made my point. We have a disagreement. You seem to think persistently disagreeing with someone could equate to bullying,  or shutting down a debate. It isn’t.
It is quite simple, neither of us have convinced the other of the validity of our arguments, we thus remain in discord. 
 

Warne haters, happy clappy merchants, doomsayers .. just generalised descriptions of groupings sharing mind sets or opinions. It labeling, all sides of all arguments do it. Being given a label by someone else doesn’t make them victim of bullying. It just means t someone doesn’t agree with you. 

It's not disagreeing about the points being made though. 

Unless you discuss the details, it's just taking a side.

Calling names doesn't just mean you don't agree. Not if you're an adult.

[MaltRam]

Warne was given a 4 season deal, of which he's got two left.

Warne's brief was to deliver an established Championship club. He's achieved the first step.

The conduct of Mr Clowes' tenure so far is pretty strong evidence that Warne will get every chance to deliver.

Unless and until we have a catastrophic spell where the team have clearly thrown in the towel and we're cut adrift in the relegation zone, Warne will stay. 

If we could agree on that premise, surely it'd be best for club that we refrain from indulging ourselves with the topic for a few months at least?

[Walkley Ram]

5 hours ago, Day said:

 if you're going to throw out a controversial take 10 minutes after the final whistle after gaining promotion, kinda got to accept the criticism you would get for that.

Billy Davies would never.

[IslandExile]

4 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

I've made it quite clear that I haven't enjoyed the way we've played this season and I'm not totally sold on Warne being the one. He's proven himself to be, as John Percy described him today, The King of League One. How good he is in the Championship remains to be seen but the evidence we have to go on so far suggests he isn't too great there.

With all that being said, he has absolutely 100% earned the right to lead us into this campaign. He's 100% earned the right to sign 8/9 players and shape this squad how he wants it. And he should 100% be given the time to have a decent crack at this division with that squad (so for me that's Christmas).

I can't promise I won't be groaning on here if we serve up some of the same football we have this season. But I won't be calling for him to go unless something utterly disastrous happens. And that's from someone who isn't sold on Warne.

+1

[Jourdan]

If we get recruitment right, Warne will take us into the play-offs next season.

[europia]

5 hours ago, Day said:

 

Although for me, if you give the manager the summer, got to give them until Christmas then barring any complete and utter disaster situation which we saw under Pearson.

All in my opinion of course. 

Yes this would be the correct strategy. Warney has had plenty of Ch'ship experience and his understanding and analysis of previous failures with Rotherham may turn out to be a strength, moving forward, rather than a weakness. Time will tell....

[Jimbo Ram]

54 minutes ago, sage said:

It's not disagreeing about the points being made though. 

Unless you discuss the details, it's just taking a side.

Calling names doesn't just mean you don't agree. Not if you're an adult.

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half an hour 😉

[Nuwtfly]

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

If we get recruitment right, Warne will take us into the play-offs next season.

[DRBee]

12 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

If we get recruitment right, Warne will take us into the play-offs next season.

that is setting Warne up for a fall. With the right recruitment it may be that we are midtable at best, given the limitations on funding ( due to the need not to do a Mel Morris) . 

[Jourdan]

4 minutes ago, DRBee said:

that is setting Warne up for a fall. With the right recruitment it may be that we are midtable at best, given the limitations on funding ( due to the need not to do a Mel Morris) . 

It’s only my personal opinion that the potential is there for us to surprise.

I am not saying this should be the expectation. I think almost everyone will accept 12th-21st as a landing point.

However the Championship is a very unusual league and there is always scope for one team to catch fire and surprise everyone, even teams with modest budgets have done so out of nowhere in the past.

Why can’t it be us?

[ram59]

29 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

If we get recruitment right, Warne will take us into the play-offs next season.

Can we afford Haaland though?🙄

[Jourdan]

Just now, ram59 said:

Can we afford Haaland though?🙄

Who mentioned Haaland? Who mentioned spending millions?

We could look overseas, we could use the PL loan market, we could pick up some free transfers that complement the existing players in the squad.

Never say never.

[CBX1985]

2 hours ago, sage said:

If you can't see the irony in that...

I quite like Warne. He has a nice sense of humour and seems to have a vision. Truth is, before he became our manager I'd never heard of him.  Clowes rated him so that was enough for me. He was given one objective: get us up.  He's achieved that.

There are many who don't like him - whether it is is football, his David Brent jokes or his bobblehat.  That I have no problem with; I am no loyalist to him only the club. 

What I personally find frustrating is these points are masked with constantly moving goalposts - "players won't sign for him"... when they do it becomes: "he needs to stop media interviews, he is alienating them"... "we are losing, he doesn't understand tactics and is "naive" "... when they win it becomes "we were always going to win this league, he doesn't have the ability to win a league above - he's not a Championship specialist".  Just like a doomsday cult, when midnight arrives and the worst doesn't happen the deadline can move rather than admit, maybe, we need to rethink our position. Maybe he will fail, but he has been successful so far.   

What we need to do, in my view, is stick on what we want - and make that tangible and definable.  Without that, debate is hard as the grounds for that debate will shift as easy as sand in the Sahara.   Before writing this I read some of the season predictions. Promotion with second was a success for practically everyone.  What has changed?

 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, sage said:

It's not disagreeing about the points being made though. 

Unless you discuss the details, it's just taking a side.

Calling names doesn't just mean you don't agree. Not if you're an adult.

Odd that you show no such empathy for those who were roundly mocked for supporting Warne though. The idiots, the deluded, the blind faithers, the happy clappers, the clueless, Warne fanbois, et al, ad nauseum. You've made dozens of posts supporting those who wanted Warne out, yet not a single one I can recall for those who felt that stance to be shortsighted.

The fact is, suggesting this was entirely a one-way interaction isn't the action of an 'adult' either and is just a derisive and divisive as those comments you'd see sanctioned.