Question for the boss

[NottsRam77]

Now the dust has settled and we have our club again.

i wanted to ask a question to those that have met him (mel)… did u think in ur wildest dream mel would have done this, aka left us for dead?

Im intrigued to know?

did he only ever give off good intentions? Did u ever come away thinking yer but..

aiming it at our fantastic site owner @David as i know he met him as did a few others from here.

Just a curiosity thing 

[Ambitious]

I met him a long time ago, during Wassall’s tenure, but he seemed fully invested - at the time too invested! 

I don’t think anyone could’ve predicted what he did. I can’t comprehend the level of morality required of a person to do what he did - I’m still convinced that when he dumped us into admin, he thought he could get around the point deduction by using COVID as the excuse - which was what the interview with Ed Dawes was for. 

He’s a sly businessman, who actually lacks the level of intelligence required to be successful at it - a dangerous concoction. I wouldn’t say he’s stupid, as he’s clearly a clever man, but definitely blinded by his arrogance, thinking he’s the smartest man in the room - it turned out he wasn’t, he wasn’t even close to being. 

[Srg]

I think he said a lot of things in a way which were very savvy and may have not revealed the full truth. 

With that said though, I do fully believe he never acted maliciously. He never wanted it to end like this. He made some mistakes, a lot of mistakes, and whether it was through bad advice or misplaced ambition, it left us in a shocking position. Throwing good money after bad. 

Ultimately, he did what he thought was right with the best intentions, but it couldn’t have worked out any worse. 

[IslandExile]

As it turned out, Mel made a complete and utter b***s up of running the club.

He spent way too much, badly managed the finances and ultimately jeopardized the very existence of the club.

Nevertheless, I do not see why people even now think that was his intention.

He was trying to get Derby into the Premier League against a backdrop of unfair competition - and we all agree with him on that: parachute payments, the EFL, the structure of the TV money, badly thought out FFP rules.

He just made a total hash of it - by going too far, by inconsistent choice of managers, paying over the odds for players etc.

But, as is usually the case in woeful situations, that's because of incompetence not conspiracy.

[Jimbo Ram]

Fire away.....I am listening.....

[Ambitious]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

I think he said a lot of things in a way which were very savvy and may have not revealed the full truth. 

With that said though, I do fully believe he never acted maliciously. He never wanted it to end like this. He made some mistakes, a lot of mistakes, and whether it was through bad advice or misplaced ambition, it left us in a shocking position. Throwing good money after bad. 

Ultimately, he did what he thought was right with the best intentions, but it couldn’t have worked out any worse. 

The last two/three years were malicious, he absolutely knew what he was doing by not filing the accounts and using the HMRC as a credit facility.

Also, putting the club into administration but not the ground was calculated. 

No doubt he was out for himself in the end, otherwise he wouldn’t have left the club in such a state of health to protect his own assets. 

He goes down as one of the worst owners in English football league history, definitely our worst ever owner which includes the likes 3 Amigos and Robert Maxwell. Some doing, but neither of those brought us to the brink of death like Mel - albeit for not want of trying. 

[sage]

You could argue that MM only made one mistake... 

Not getting promoted 

If we had, he'd still be m charge and everyone would adore him

It's a funny old game 

[I am Ram]

No one could anticipate what Mel ended up doing, even fans who backed him at the time. Remembering back to when i read about the forum meeting him, i distinctly remember not all people in attendance trusted him and where sceptical of his motives, some even annoyed him. At the end of the day, we are all fans, we can only hope things don't turn sour. 

[i-Ram]

Never met him. Never wanted to meet him. Never want to see him again. 

Many of his early interviews and actions were arrogant or egotistical. He came across as smug and I feared the worst very early in his tenure.

That said he never had any intention to crash and burn the club. It was all about wanting to be King of the Hill for him. Even when it was turning pear shape though he came couldn’t accept his mistakes or that he was the problem.

There we are then. 

[PistoldPete]

53 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Now the dust has settled and we have our club again.

i wanted to ask a question to those that have met him (mel)… did u think in ur wildest dream mel would have done this, aka left us for dead?

Im intrigued to know?

did he only ever give off good intentions? Did u ever come away thinking yer but..

aiming it at our fantastic site owner @David as i know he met him as did a few others from here.

Just a curiosity thing 

Never met him except  I went to a Q&a session with him and rowett at the Old bell. He bought some fans a drink , but I missed out on that. 
 

What he said made perfect sense to me and his criticisms of Efl were and still are very valid. 
 

Taking us  into admin was a shock for me , I thought he was a very wealthy guy and a fan. He cannot be both of those things and do what he did. 

[DRBee]

15 minutes ago, sage said:

You could argue that MM only made one mistake... 

Not getting promoted 

If we had, he'd still be m charge and everyone would adore him

It's a funny old game 

This  argument would be a complete let off. His model of governance was flawed and some on here pointed that out well before the sorry end - the fact that he was in sole control and did not surround himself with people able to argue a case for doing things differently. His previous business successes offered no guarantee of success in running a football club.

The constant turnover of managers (consider what he did with MacClaren) was a significant negative indicator from early on. Are we saying that we will accept any model of governance with deep flaws IF that leads to success? Having missed out on promotion and lost Lampard as manager, his  bringing in Cocu was the wrong step and showed an unrealistic grasp of our situation both in terms of player capability and our financial resources.

[observer]

a few close connections who know him,

All say the same EGO was why we ended up were we did

he backed the club as much as he could and did what he thought would save us, not getting promoted and legal issues added to health issues etc.

people arent talking about what he paid middlesborough to go away

 

 

Facts are he fought the efl and lost noboby will admit that, derby suffered the consequences.

 

Its raw now over I would guess over time and as more facts come out people will forgive mel and just see it as a failure rather than anything malicious.

 

 

[sage]

10 minutes ago, DRBee said:

This  argument would be a complete let off. His model of governance was flawed and some on here pointed that out well before the sorry end - the fact that he was in sole control and did not surround himself with people able to argue a case for doing things differently. His previous business successes offered no guarantee of success in running a football club.

The constant turnover of managers (consider what he did with MacClaren) was a significant negative indicator from early on. Are we saying that we will accept any model of governance with deep flaws IF that leads to success? Having missed out on promotion and lost Lampard as manager, his  bringing in Cocu was the wrong step and showed an unrealistic grasp of our situation both in terms of player capability and our financial resources.

and breathe.......

You miss my point, if we had got promoted (say under Lampard) everything would have been forgiven by most fans and the additional income would/should have sorted the financial and FFP issues 

It was a Get Out of Jail Free card for many clubs, how many of them would have ended up with FFP penalties and/or Administration if they hadn't gone up? The answer would be most of them.

 

p,s, I'm not defending him, just saying many owners gambled, we lost

  

Edited July 12, 2022 by sage

[Wolfie]

Surely the lack of breakfast sausages should have been a dead giveaway that the man is a monster.

[ram59]

There are many 'successful' business people like MM, but are they successful or have they just been lucky in 1 venture. I feared that this was the case with CK and I'm glad that we dodged that potential bullet.

I have been personally caught up in such a position, a guy makes a mint by selling his company, buys out my aging parents leaving me to stay in the business with my small shareholding. He also buys several other small businesses, with the intention to join them together and grow into a massive company. All very well, but from day 1 of the take over, I knew that he didn't have a clue on how to run our company and I suspect the others too. Things quickly went downhill and I brought up solutions at group meetings, which were ignored. I was 'rewarded' for this with instant dismissal without any reason, without any notice, without any pay, without any holiday pay and 3 children and a mortgage. By the time I won my unfair dismissal case, the group of companies had gone bust and with it so had my shareholding and any payments awarded to me.

Did the guy intend this to happen, no, but success in 1 venture lead him to believe that he was a good businessman and that he would be successful come what may.

Without a lot of bad luck along the way, MM could well have been successful at Derby, but he wasn't clever enough to realise when to pull back and stop chasing the dream, much like a gambler keeps betting money he hasn't got in order to recover his loses and make his fortune.

I don't believe MM had any malice just ambition, bad luck, arrogance, desperation and finally self preservation, in that order.

[Day]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Now the dust has settled and we have our club again.

i wanted to ask a question to those that have met him (mel)… did u think in ur wildest dream mel would have done this, aka left us for dead?

Im intrigued to know?

did he only ever give off good intentions? Did u ever come away thinking yer but..

aiming it at our fantastic site owner @David as i know he met him as did a few others from here.

Just a curiosity thing 

It feels like there is a suggestion within this question that I and others, suspected this would happen yet kept quiet.

I can hand on heart say that was never the case.

Now I’m fully aware that history will not look kindly on some of my posts, however I personally do not regret a single word I wrote at the time as that is what I truly believed. Let’s also not rewrite history here, you will have seen the memes, not created by myself, Mel Morris was a popular figure not so long ago.

Pumped a lot of money into this club, play off campaigns, took us to the brink of the Premier League. Those raising questions were largely in the minority.

Covid happened, you can argue how severe these impact was, however it wasn’t just financial, lost a close friend, had his own health concerns, throw in the EFL retrospectively looking to change the rules and applying punishment, not sure anyone could have foreseen any of this. 

Do I know why he put us into administration? No I do not, but I believe that even in his wildest dreams the long term goal wasn’t to burn a load of cash then ride off into the sunset. 

I sold advertising space on the forum to the club, this was handled by the marketing team led by Faye Nixon who was my primary contact at the time.

At no point was there any interference in my views, content on the forum or whatever accusations have been thrown out there by fans believe you would be banned for posting anything anti Mel, not that they were incapable of sticking to the forum guidelines we have in place.

If this comes across as defensive, it’s because it is, as I say it does feel there is a suggestion inside this that we’ve been silenced somehow and not been honest, which does sting a little I have to say.

Now if that suggestion wasn’t intended, I have to say it’s a bit of a daft question.

[sage]

5 minutes ago, David said:

It feels like there is a suggestion within this question that I and others, suspected this would happen yet kept quiet.

I can hand on heart say that was never the case.

Now I’m fully aware that history will not look kindly on some of my posts, however I personally do not regret a single word I wrote at the time as that is what I truly believed. Let’s also not rewrite history here, you will have seen the memes, not created by myself, Mel Morris was a popular figure not so long ago.

Pumped a lot of money into this club, play off campaigns, took us to the brink of the Premier League. Those raising questions were largely in the minority.

Covid happened, you can argue how severe these impact was, however it wasn’t just financial, lost a close friend, had his own health concerns, throw in the EFL retrospectively looking to change the rules and applying punishment, not sure anyone could have foreseen any of this. 

Do I know why he put us into administration? No I do not, but I believe that even in his wildest dreams the long term goal wasn’t to burn a load of cash then ride off into the sunset. 

I sold advertising space on the forum to the club, this was handled by the marketing team led by Faye Nixon who was my primary contact at the time.

At no point was there any interference in my views, content on the forum or whatever accusations have been thrown out there by fans believe you would be banned for posting anything anti Mel, not that they were incapable of sticking to the forum guidelines we have in place.

If this comes across as defensive, it’s because it is, as I say it does feel there is a suggestion inside this that we’ve been silenced somehow and not been honest, which does sting a little I have to say.

Now if that suggestion wasn’t intended, I have to say it’s a bit of a daft question.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

The last two/three years were malicious, he absolutely knew what he was doing by not filing the accounts and using the HMRC as a credit facility.

Also, putting the club into administration but not the ground was calculated. 

No doubt he was out for himself in the end, otherwise he wouldn’t have left the club in such a state of health to protect his own assets. 

He goes down as one of the worst owners in English football league history, definitely our worst ever owner which includes the likes 3 Amigos and Robert Maxwell. Some doing, but neither of those brought us to the brink of death like Mel - albeit for not want of trying. 

Whatever is said about intent, here is the reality. He kept gambling and in the end when he bailed out he wanted as much money back as was possible. 
 

Who can say that if he’d gotten the Club promoted he wouldn’t have piled on more debt and we’d be where Burnley find themselves financially.

He gambled with our Club, gave out false promises and abandoned us to our Fake Sheik fate!

 

[De22Ram]

Never met him but knew a couple of people who had and i heard some stories/rumours about him that rang alarm bells! Also the photos of him when he took over didnt sit right! However like everyone im sure, i was happy when he was pumping money into the club! So hey ho, what is done is done! Onwards and upwards! 

Up the Rams ?⚽️?⚽️

[Day]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

This is it.

BAWT group on Twitter got close to Kirchner and were in contact with him over his bid, Nigel the spokesman at the time even had a cover photo of himself with Chris Kirchner outside Pride Park. Needless to say, that’s not there anymore.

Not knocking them or Nigel for that. Hindsight as you say is a wonderful thing.