Question for the boss

[Ram@Lincoln]

I've met Mel on various occasions at work conferences over the years before and during his reign at the club. He's always come across to me as someone trying to be on the edge of the next big thing, similar to Elon Musk in a way. He struck gold with the dot.com boom for the dating website and then again with Candy Crush, you could call it luck certainly but the old adage 9/10 businesses fail is true. He's been there and failed many a times, but the riches gained from successes far outweigh the losses....until now.

The smug aura as others mentioned grew exponentially during the Derby years as result from lack of any challengers, apart from Sam Rush and we all know how that ended! If he'd been humble/modest enough to accept that he didn't have all the answers and let the superb executive professionals he had under him manage the club, we definitely wouldn't be in the position we are now. If your face fit - great, however if you toed ever so slightly out of line it didn't matter who you were, it was P45 time.

@ramswriter podcast recorded a brilliant podcast with Chris Holt a couple months ago about the atmosphere working under Mel Morris and the administrators. Definitely worth a listen if anyone hasn't, it's very honest and revealing to what really went on behind closed doors.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9iMzVhZmQ4L3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz/episode/MjliZjQzZDAtZjExMi00NGI3LTg2MzktZDEyYzUzODIzOGUy?hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwjSvbzVhfP4AhVTkFwKHbqKBf8QjrkEegQIAhAF&ep=6 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Ram@Lincoln

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

He just made a total hash of it - by going too far, by inconsistent choice of managers, paying over the odds for players etc.

But, as is usually the case in woeful situations, that's because of incompetence not conspiracy.

I don't totally ascribe to that points of view; moving the ground to separate ownership away from the club, not filing company accounts, carrying on running the club into the ground when he knew he would bail leaving a shed load of debts to cover, all of this was totally calculated and premeditated.

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Never met him.

But just to say I was as willing a dupe as anyone else.

I thought at the time he was the best thing since sliced bread. More fool me.

He's gone now.

We've survived Mel Morris, as we've survived others before. It's not pretty. It was not a good experience or a happy time, but, we move forward.

Season starts in just under three weeks.

[Half fan]

51 minutes ago, ram59 said:

There are many 'successful' business people like MM, but are they successful or have they just been lucky in 1 venture. I feared that this was the case with CK and I'm glad that we dodged that potential bullet.

I have been personally caught up in such a position, a guy makes a mint by selling his company, buys out my aging parents leaving me to stay in the business with my small shareholding. He also buys several other small businesses, with the intention to join them together and grow into a massive company. All very well, but from day 1 of the take over, I knew that he didn't have a clue on how to run our company and I suspect the others too. Things quickly went downhill and I brought up solutions at group meetings, which were ignored. I was 'rewarded' for this with instant dismissal without any reason, without any notice, without any pay, without any holiday pay and 3 children and a mortgage. By the time I won my unfair dismissal case, the group of companies had gone bust and with it so had my shareholding and any payments awarded to me.

Did the guy intend this to happen, no, but success in 1 venture lead him to believe that he was a good businessman and that he would be successful come what may.

Without a lot of bad luck along the way, MM could well have been successful at Derby, but he wasn't clever enough to realise when to pull back and stop chasing the dream, much like a gambler keeps betting money he hasn't got in order to recover his loses and make his fortune.

I don't believe MM had any malice just ambition, bad luck, arrogance, desperation and finally self preservation, in that order.

Spot on, ram59!

Yes, it's a sad fact that more than half of all UK acquisitions destroy shareholder value in both the acquiring company and the acquired company. This is usually due to incompetence in the Board of the acquring company, be it the wrong strategy in selecting the acquisition and/or bad decisions in the administration of the takeover. Only our Brian could walk on water (sometimes), which the ego of many acquiring leaders prevents them from realising.

Less publicised than the corporate damage, is the personal damage done to the blameless individuals caught up in the wreckage. Your story is a good example, sadly. But the damage to DCFC and its fans, is one of the more publicised examples.

The success of our fans in helping the phoenix rise from the ashes with a long-lasting emotional and political campaign, is an inspiring role model which will not often be repeated. This is not least because Mr Clowes has shown a complete lack of arrogance. He behaves not like an avaricious owner but like the caring custodian of an essential institution. We must wish him well in finding like-minded backers!

It will make a great film when DCFC wins promotion. Whether that would helpfully be to the financially bonkers Premier League, will be an interesting question one day!

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

There are many 'successful' business people like MM, but are they successful or have they just been lucky in 1 venture. I feared that this was the case with CK and I'm glad that we dodged that potential bullet.

I have been personally caught up in such a position, a guy makes a mint by selling his company, buys out my aging parents leaving me to stay in the business with my small shareholding. He also buys several other small businesses, with the intention to join them together and grow into a massive company. All very well, but from day 1 of the take over, I knew that he didn't have a clue on how to run our company and I suspect the others too. Things quickly went downhill and I brought up solutions at group meetings, which were ignored. I was 'rewarded' for this with instant dismissal without any reason, without any notice, without any pay, without any holiday pay and 3 children and a mortgage. By the time I won my unfair dismissal case, the group of companies had gone bust and with it so had my shareholding and any payments awarded to me.

Did the guy intend this to happen, no, but success in 1 venture lead him to believe that he was a good businessman and that he would be successful come what may.

Without a lot of bad luck along the way, MM could well have been successful at Derby, but he wasn't clever enough to realise when to pull back and stop chasing the dream, much like a gambler keeps betting money he hasn't got in order to recover his loses and make his fortune.

I don't believe MM had any malice just ambition, bad luck, arrogance, desperation and finally self preservation, in that order.

You say ‘no malice’ but in your case and ours people were sacked at will, is that not malice?

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't totally ascribe to that points of view; moving the ground to separate ownership away from the club, not filing company accounts, carrying on running the club into the ground when he knew he would bail leaving a shed load of debts to cover, all of this was totally calculated and premeditated.

 

Yes but it still seemed like he thought he would get one over everyone in the end - the video on that tv programme trying to sell the club, as someone said the Ed Dawes interview seemingly hoping Covid would be taken as an excuse for no or reducing points deduction, presumably thinking the boro/wycombe cases/moans would go away in admin, etc. Clearly overly arrogant, deluded and with some sort of narcissism or something I am not qualified to pin point.  Rumours of his ill health may just be that but may have contributed but he just kept going gambling with our existence.

What the authorities need to look at is how someone who seemed the ideal owner on paper was able to get this far in almost killing the club? Think covid probably contributed to him being able to continue as didnt HMRC have court order before it hit? But they need to see how such behaviour from an owner can be stopped without the huge detriment to a club, its staff and fans which we saw when he put us in admin. The wrong people were punished for one man's actions

[Ram-Alf]

Taking on the EFL with TV rights, Breakfast club, Selling the ground to himself, Keogh, Rush cases lost, Sacking managers when it suited, Keeping players on as they are a financial product but sacking the other, Settling with Boro, Going head to head with Pearson, Fibbing when telling all he's been a lifelong DCFC fan, Trying desperately to sell to those who aren't the real deal, Getting involved in a Video with a man who's not averse to screwing those over when looking after himself, Giving scarves away to the supporters, Been seen with supporters at away grounds with pint in hand, Lauded by us the supporter, Disliked by us the supporter, Employs 3 managers...Lampard, Cocu and Rooney who were excellent players in their day, Puts DCFC into Administration, He tried to catch the Moon...but it got away.

It must have cost him 10s of Millions of £s?‍♀️

 

[Anon]

2 hours ago, observer said:

a few close connections who know him,

All say the same EGO was why we ended up were we did

he backed the club as much as he could and did what he thought would save us, not getting promoted and legal issues added to health issues etc.

people arent talking about what he paid middlesborough to go away

 

 

Facts are he fought the efl and lost noboby will admit that, derby suffered the consequences.

 

Its raw now over I would guess over time and as more facts come out people will forgive mel and just see it as a failure rather than anything malicious.

 

 

Has there been any confirmation that such a payment was made? I mainly ask because such a payment would prove that the pube headed smug smoggy t*** is a money grubbing opportunist in spite of all his fancy words about upholding the laws of the game.

[CROSSWORD]

Does seem having egotistical,clueless owners has always been "The Derby Way".

Aside from Lionel Pickerings tenure i dont think we,ve had owners that would let football people run the club,and stay low profile.

Dare i say ,i think we have one now,......we really do deserve it after all this nightmare.

[Ram@Lincoln]

3 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Taking on the EFL with TV rights, Breakfast club, Selling the ground to himself, Keogh, Rush cases lost, Sacking managers when it suited, Keeping players on as they are a financial product but sacking the other, Settling with Boro, Going head to head with Pearson, Fibbing when telling all he's been a lifelong DCFC fan, Trying desperately to sell to those who aren't the real deal, Getting involved in a Video with a man who's not averse to screwing those over when looking after himself, Giving scarves away to the supporters, Been seen with supporters at away grounds with pint in hand, Lauded by us the supporter, Disliked by us the supporter, Employs 3 managers...Lampard, Cocu and Rooney who were excellent players in their day, Puts DCFC into Administration, He tried to catch the Moon...but it got away.

It must have cost him 10s of Millions of £s?‍♀️

 

Over £200m if all finance boffins are to be believed. Nobody is stupid enough to deliberately go into anything wanting to lose hundreds of millions. Whether you're loaded or not, losing what a third to half your net worth in a few years is madness. As someone put, we we're so close to promotion twice, QPR then Villa. If we'd had won either of those games, this wouldn't be the issue now and Mel Morris would be the hero.

[observer]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

Has there been any confirmation that such a payment was made? I mainly ask because such a payment would prove that the pube headed smug smoggy t*** is a money grubbing opportunist in spite of all his fancy words about upholding the laws of the game.

 I got told he paid £40m to make it go away, althought I take that with a pinch of salt, I dont however doubt something was paid

 

[Tombo]

Call me a fool but I feel a bit sorry for him. He nearly ruined us and he undoubtedly set us back a long way but I never believed that was his intention

Don't get me wrong though, he's not my favourite person in the world. And for all the money he's blown, I doubt he'll go hungry or cold this winter like many will up and down the country. So I don't dwell on feeling sorry for him for very long.

It's a tragic affair best left in the past. He's gone now.

[Bris Vegas]

He was far too short-sighted. It makes me wonder what would have happened if we had got promoted? He probably would have fired the manager after a winless start of six games having burned over £100m in the summer transfer window.

Mel Morris never had a plan at Derby. Each season was all-or-nothing and after four failures (Clement, Pearson, Rowett and Lampard) he was looking for an exit under Cocu.

You only do what we did if you are narrow-minded and unwilling to listen to others.

Everyone with a ounce of knowledge about football knows you can’t build our 2013-14 side in a few months. It took us (and the same with Liverpool at elite level) around six transfer windows to create that side. Derby staff will have known that. But Morris thought he could do it every summer in one window.

 

 

[Big Bad Bob]

3 hours ago, David said:

It feels like there is a suggestion within this question that I and others, suspected this would happen yet kept quiet.

I can hand on heart say that was never the case.

Now I’m fully aware that history will not look kindly on some of my posts, however I personally do not regret a single word I wrote at the time as that is what I truly believed. Let’s also not rewrite history here, you will have seen the memes, not created by myself, Mel Morris was a popular figure not so long ago.

Pumped a lot of money into this club, play off campaigns, took us to the brink of the Premier League. Those raising questions were largely in the minority.

Covid happened, you can argue how severe these impact was, however it wasn’t just financial, lost a close friend, had his own health concerns, throw in the EFL retrospectively looking to change the rules and applying punishment, not sure anyone could have foreseen any of this. 

Do I know why he put us into administration? No I do not, but I believe that even in his wildest dreams the long term goal wasn’t to burn a load of cash then ride off into the sunset. 

I sold advertising space on the forum to the club, this was handled by the marketing team led by Faye Nixon who was my primary contact at the time.

At no point was there any interference in my views, content on the forum or whatever accusations have been thrown out there by fans believe you would be banned for posting anything anti Mel, not that they were incapable of sticking to the forum guidelines we have in place.

If this comes across as defensive, it’s because it is, as I say it does feel there is a suggestion inside this that we’ve been silenced somehow and not been honest, which does sting a little I have to say.

Now if that suggestion wasn’t intended, I have to say it’s a bit of a daft question.

You have summarised my thoughts on the matter also. I rarely say as much on here as there is so much negativity towards Mel that it's just not worth the agro. 

To throw into the ring the time wasters that were allegedly the people who were going to take the club forward. Even post Mel this has happened again.

[YouRams]

100% got a portrait of himself at the top of his stairs, that kinda guy. 

[Ram-Alf]

29 minutes ago, observer said:

 I got told he paid £40m to make it go away, althought I take that with a pinch of salt, I dont however doubt something was paid

 

How about a Mountain of the stuff...£40m ?

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[LERam]

5 hours ago, sage said:

You could argue that MM only made one mistake... 

Not getting promoted 

If we had, he'd still be m charge and everyone would adore him

It's a funny old game 

If we'd beaten Villa, the man would be idolised, a statue, probably the freedom of the city..... that's how close he was from being the hero, and now he's the villain.

What he did, he did as a fan, wanting the best for the club. He went too far in pushing the limits, but not many of us were calling for him to reign it in.

Ultimately though he failed, and it came at a price. He probably knew before Lampards playoff final that it had to happen soon or we'd fall apart.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, observer said:

 I got told he paid £40m to make it go away, althought I take that with a pinch of salt, I dont however doubt something was paid

 

You got told wrong. I heard it was £3 m .. but even that seems way too much. 

[jimtastic56]

Met him 3 times at Fans Forums. As most people have said , I did not find him to be a humble man. I do think that football people took advantage of his arrogance. But we believed it when he said we were getting close to the edge of fair play, and I had no problem with the long term plan of using academy lads . However when he signed Beilik and Rooney , I thought he had lost the plot. Then it all unraveled.

[FlyBritishMidland]

It’s hard not to let the last couple of years influence your opinion on MM.  I think @IslandExile makes really good points - it was more down to incompetence.  He wanted in when we were arguably at our peak then took over the club.  I don’t believe he ever set out with the intention of ruining the club.  I think he planned to get us promoted and then sell making a quick profit.  At the outset he got carried away.  It seemed we’re adding millions to transfer fees every week.  At the time, and I still believe this, I thought 3 transfers summed up the madness of that summer - Shackell, Johnson and Butterfield.  Random manager sackings and appointments and constantly changing playing styles was a factor too.

When he needed to tighten his belt he changed his mind.  Rowett cited his reason for leaving as being budget restrictions and needing to use youth.  What we needed then was a Warnock (tin hat on!!) type manager.  One who knew how to wheel and deal, instead he appointed Lampard and did the opposite.  Then Cocu and proceeded to break the transfer record.

He also got rid of pretty much every board member, therefore getting rid of any challenge.  Personally, I just think Stephen Pearce was his mouthpiece with the EFL.  No evidence but I suspect everything that has happened was MM’s idea he just told SP to get on with it.  When times were good, MM was out there, then when it’s all going a bit shaped, SP fronts it out - think the interview when the fake sheik was taking over and hadn’t paid the money.

I also think @Ambitious makes some good points about the last couple of years.  It was obvious that for whatever reason - and we’ll never know what that is - he’d had enough.  I do think he knew what he was doing with PP and not putting that company in administration.  That said, he did sort something out with MFC so that a takeover could happen.

The bit that I really struggle with is not admitting he got it wrong or made mistakes.  He looked for ways round FFP and whilst it may not have been illegal, it was against custom and practice in the football industry.  He made himself an enemy within football and made us a target.  And for that, we’ve suffered.  Even in his interview with Ed Dawes he was adamant we were in administration because of COVID.  COVID didn’t wilfully withhold payments to HMRC, find dodgy potential purchasers, look for ways round FFP, etc.

He will be remembered as the man who left us saddled with the largest debt of any club ever to go in administration with minimal assets.  We are so lucky to still exist today.