Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I know things must be bad, Mel would have issued a statement by now to quosh rumours. The fact the club havent ever, to my knowledge, issued any kind of statement on the failed BZI takeover, the Alonso takeover or any of the quite major media speculation, suggests either things are so bad, or Mel and Stephen Pearce just no longer care.

One thing though. We were told 3 sets of people were interested in buying the club. Sam Rush allegedly one of those with Andy Appleby and Mel wasnt keen to sell to someone involving Rush. Whether this is true is one thing, but surely if things are so bad you dont let egos stand in the way of saving the club you love?

[Ellafella]

On 10/05/2021 at 21:16, RIMBAUD said:

Bristol is an excellent city. 

Very much so.

[G-Ram]

If we cant find a buyer we might as well just start again in non league at this rate. Or sell any sellable players at a cut price and be left with a side of low earning under 23s. We'd be relegated with the lowest points total but might just survive 

I do still reckon Rush and co are coming in to save us. Surely were worth 60m to get the club for free & wipe the debts.  

Set up a holding company to own 100% of the club, training ground and stadiums companies so they're effectively all the new owners. Clear the 60m debt on purchase, take out another more manageable debt against the stadium for player purchases and have some sensible recruitment in the summer     

Edited May 15, 2021 by G-Ram

[CornwallRam]

I think the barometer is going to be Rooney. If things are that bad he won't stay - we'll have to sell any player we can and will finish 24th, even if we don't get a points deduction. Rooney just doesn't need that.

If Rooney stays, it means that he is convinced that he will have enough resources to at least aim for mid-table. He'd need to very firm assurances from Mel or knowledge of a credible take over on the horizon to stay. At this point Wayne is king rat...if he abandons we're sinking. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by CornwallRam

[NottsRam77]

4 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Derby don't have a wage bill in excess of 50 million. They would need to be 2 years, probably a bit more behind with their tax at that rate.  So no - on both counts. 

Can I ask 

to my knowledge a hmrc bill would be to do with outstanding VAT ... as far as I know u don’t pay VAT on wages 

would that if true not be for service so corporate activities 

[RammingStone66]

16 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think the barometer is going to be Rooney. If things are that bad he won't stay - we'll have to sell any player we can and will finish 24th, even if we don't get a points deduction. Rooney just doesn't need that.

If Rooney stays, it means that he is convinced that he will have enough resources to at least aim for mid-table. He'd need to very firm assurances from Mel or knowledge of a credible take over on the horizon to stay. At this point Wayne is king rat...if he abandons we're sinking. 

Got to agree with you there. I felt like the interview after the last game "things need to change from tonight" was him priming the narrative and telling the club that he needs resources or he is gone.

Can't blame him tbh, having less than half a squad of mostly youngsters and then probably being told you have to sell the best and probably only sigh cheap/free replacements doesn't sound like an ideal first management job ?

[IlsonDerby]

5 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuinely what do you want? He's selling the club. He knows he didn't do a great job. 

I want a club to still support next year. We’re a founding member of the EFL and if this is true then we could be gone. Not just relegated but gone. I could accept a relegation but no more Derby? He’d go down as worse than the 3 amigos. 

[NottsRam77]

The article also talks about ongoing losses of x amount

haven’t we got only about 10 players registered to the club ?

ok not quite that but we must have a pretty low wage bill 

look at forest for instance the have more centre midfielders on their books than we have registered players 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by NottsRam77

[i-Ram]

12 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Can I ask 

to my knowledge a hmrc bill would be to do with outstanding VAT ... as far as I know u don’t pay VAT on wages 

would that if true not be for service so corporate activities 

HMRC are responsible for:

Income Tax, Corporation Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, Insurance Premium Tax, Stamp, Land and Petroleum Revenue Taxes

Environmental taxes

climate change and aggregates levy and landfill tax

Value Added Tax (VAT), including import VAT

Customs duty

Excise duties

National Insurance

Tax Credits

Child Benefit

Please don’t put this on Twitter, but my understanding is that we still owe duty on the importation of Albentosa, Camara and Jozwiak, and are massively in arrears on child benefit payments for Knight, Sibley, Buchanan and Bird. The biggest debt to HMRC though falls under the Climate Change Levy where Mel Morris has incurred the club significant fees for the over production of worthless hot air.

[Brammie Steve]

IN MY OPINION

Some of the greatest supporters we've come across in recent years have been from Accrington Stanley and Chorley.

Some of our most enjoyable games recently have been against teams like Brentford.

WHY?

Managers, players and supporters enjoying a game of football, having a corporate sense of identity, comradeship and respect for the guests coming to either watch or play!

I am part way through reading "The men who made the Rams" by Peter Seddon.

Apparently most football teams originated in this way.

Would going back to basics really signify the end of civilisation as we know it?

[Curtains]

Not great but the last bit of the article puts it into perspective .

Just another case of the media having a go at us  IMO 

 

“Meanwhile, Morris has told Sportsmail that the £60m figure quoted is based on a ‘worst case scenario’. He also makes the point that the MSD loan equates roughly to the stadium mortgage he cleared after buying the club.

And with regards the HMRC debt, Morris says many Championship clubs have had to rely on a deferral of PAYE taxes to cope with the impact of Covid-19 and how it has decimated club revenues.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9580807/Potential-Derby-County-buyers-WALKING-AWAY-discovering-debts-60MILLION.html

[NottsRam77]

10 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Not great but the last bit of the article puts it into perspective .

Just another case of the media having a go at us  IMO 

 

“Meanwhile, Morris has told Sportsmail that the £60m figure quoted is based on a ‘worst case scenario’. He also makes the point that the MSD loan equates roughly to the stadium mortgage he cleared after buying the club.

And with regards the HMRC debt, Morris says many Championship clubs have had to rely on a deferral of PAYE taxes to cope with the impact of Covid-19 and how it has decimated club revenues.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9580807/Potential-Derby-County-buyers-WALKING-AWAY-discovering-debts-60MILLION.html

To add to that,

I was going to say .. wasn’t it well documented a few years ago that we were debt free and only owed the mortgage on the stadium 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, NottsRam77 said:

To add to that,

I was going to say .. wasn’t it well documented a few years ago that we were debt free and only owed the mortgage on the stadium 

We’ll probably yes .

I argued we should have kept Cocu party because of the cost of sacking him and it appears it was 8 Million !

This sack sack sack of managers has not helped us. 
 

[CBRammette]

5 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Back in the early 80's we hadn't paid the tax on players wages. My gut says in the modern age you'd know if that was the case though. It's not done on annual basis like it used to be on manual P35.  Computerisation would show such an issue on a monthly basis.

When the opportunity presented itself at the very start of the pandemic many employers deferred Paye/NIC debts because they could to help cash flow not because they needed to. It really isnt unusual at the moment and it was one of measures offered by hmrc to help employers like furlough. We must be sticking to any payment plan or HMRC would stop paying furlough and it sounds as if staff are still on furlough?

[CBRammette]

7 hours ago, SamUltraRam said:

I'm no tax expert, but how can an organisation that loses money every year owe any income tax ?

Payroll taxes

[falconram]

How did we come to this mess from a business man who made plenty of money, worry time plus I here wages unpaid, how true I don't know but if so we in it deep

[Eaststander7]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

We’ll probably yes .

I argued we should have kept Cocu party because of the cost of sacking him and it appears it was 8 Million !

This sack sack sack of managers has not helped us. 
 

Spot on....yet despite this some keep banging on about Rooney and how we need a new manager.... ?‍♂️

[TuffLuff]

For one thing, Cocu reportedly left by mutual consent and wasnt sacked

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/54945552.amp
 

Also interesting to note in the article that the BZI deal was reported to be worth £60mill

It’s also worth noting this new DM article is written by our new favourite north east reporter, so have to presume it’s all a little quiet on Teeside.

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

6 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Back in the early 80's we hadn't paid the tax on players wages. My gut says in the modern age you'd know if that was the case though. It's not done on annual basis like it used to be on manual P35.  Computerisation would show such an issue on a monthly basis.

Nothing to do with the main topic .But re players wages I remember going to the ticket office  at the BBG 1979 ish ,and passing Alan Biley walking the opposite way opening his wage packet head down counting his money( REAL money).

How times have changed

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

HMRC are responsible for:

Income Tax, Corporation Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, Insurance Premium Tax, Stamp, Land and Petroleum Revenue Taxes

Environmental taxes

climate change and aggregates levy and landfill tax

Value Added Tax (VAT), including import VAT

Customs duty

Excise duties

National Insurance

Tax Credits

Child Benefit

Please don’t put this on Twitter, but my understanding is that we still owe duty on the importation of Albentosa, Camara and Jozwiak, and are massively in arrears on child benefit payments for Knight, Sibley, Buchanan and Bird. The biggest debt to HMRC though falls under the Climate Change Levy where Mel Morris has incurred the club significant fees for the over production of worthless hot air.

I wonder if we still owe lots of excise duty for George Burley's rider?