Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[timmo]

2 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

Is the minus 12 points thing likely to be announced officially this week sometime?

According to Percy happening today.'we are bottom of the league I say we are bottom of the league'

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I don't think they'll ask his opinion, will they? 

They'll literally do everything they need to do to keep the club alive. They won't care what league or what the morale. They'll sell Knight, the flat screen tv's, office chairs and pay next to nothing (or nothing) to unsecured creditors to make sure secure creditors get paid? They just do whatever it takes. 

Be nice if a buyer comes to the rescue but I imagine they'll wait and buy the club when we don't have a pot left to piss in

Unless somebody wants to part with tens of millions to buy a club that doesn't own its ground or training facilities, has -12 more points and no senior players of any value. Fingers crossed that somebody is that mad. 

Look at our squad, our assets... Rooney is probably the biggest asset the club currently has! Maybe they'll try and sell him? Perhaps he'll try and do a deal with the administrator to keep players as long as possible. Who knows.

[Oldben]

It's rumoured pride Park would cost 81 mullion to buy.

If I were the new owner I'd seek to ground share for a while, probably look at Notts county ground share as that's an 18000 seater stadium.

I would not look to buy back pride Park.

I would consider building a new ground some where around Derby.

Chesterfields 10000 seater Proact Stadium cost around 13 million, I thought it a decent stadium for a new ground.

So a 30000 seater stadium could cost 40 to 45 million.

Half the amount required to buy back pride Park.

 

[RandomAccessMemory]

Does anyone know, with Mel owning the stadium under the Gellaw Newco 202 company (with it’s parent being Gellaw Newco 204) and those 2 companies being listed on the same Companies house charge documents, as ‘The Chargors’, with the club associated ones, does that mean it is the same loan?

If those 2 companies aren’t in administration (while all of the others listed are) and Mel has to keep paying MSD to not lose control of the stadium to them, would that mean that the entirety of the MSD loan is not actually the clubs to pay off?

[Rammy03]

30 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I don't think they'll ask his opinion, will they? 

They'll literally do everything they need to do to keep the club alive. They won't care what league or what the morale. They'll sell Knight, the flat screen tv's, office chairs and pay next to nothing (or nothing) to unsecured creditors to make sure secure creditors get paid? They just do whatever it takes. 

Be nice if a buyer comes to the rescue but I imagine they'll wait and buy the club when we don't have a pot left to piss in

Unless somebody wants to part with tens of millions to buy a club that doesn't own its ground or training facilities, has -12 more points and no senior players of any value. Fingers crossed that somebody is that mad. 

This is the problem. We're so much in debt that only someone stupid will come in and save it. There aren't many assets to sell. The club don't own the ground. It's just a complete mess. It's no surprise that there are reports of it being 50/50 on getting liquidated.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

This is the problem. We're so much in debt that only someone stupid will come in and save it. There aren't many assets to sell. The club don't own the ground. It's just a complete mess. It's no surprise that there are reports of it being 50/50 on getting liquidated.

Yet again will we look to support from business people like LoG? Or the Yanks. But they'll have to be investors (sic) with a long term view. They won't have to pay HMRC and the football debts in full the day they take over, there'll be a payments schedule, surely?

Edited September 22, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Alph]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Look at our squad, our assets... Rooney is probably the biggest asset the club currently has! Maybe they'll try and sell him? Perhaps he'll try and do a deal with the administrator to keep players as long as possible. Who knows.

And that's an utterly depressing thought since he's pretty much the only thing anyone can draw strength from right now. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

no choice

club not attractive, not the only one out there

on a downward spiral

saddled with debt and disciplinary penalties

no assets

unless it is in your DNA youf I'm not sure why anybody would see us as a fantastic opportunity

Question would be on where debt would end up after this process. If creditors are taking a big cut through admin process then they must be a lot lower.

I think your points are more those on why MM could not sell. In which case I 100% agree. 

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Alpha said:

And that's an utterly depressing thought since he's pretty much the only thing anyone can draw strength from right now. 

As with the players they have to agree to go?

[Gaspode]

It would be great is someone cleverer than me could provide a breakdown of the debt that we're supposedly in - the way Mel has tied the finances in knots to protect himself and/or make our finances look a certaain way, I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of both the reported debts and the money that Mel reckons he's pumped into the club are actually owed to him or one of his companies.

I'm highly sceptical that he's put £200M in with no expectation of seeing a big part of that returned to him. Just how much of the debt is made up of his loans to the club?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Gaspode

[G STAR RAM]

@David we know that you have a line to Mel and that he, in the past at least, has read this forum.

Knowing him, do you think he would be prepared to answer say 10 questions put forward by this forum.

Obviously only respectful questions, once again chosen via a poll on here?

I know there is very little that we can do to change the course we are now on but I think many of us would like to know exactly how bad the situation is, and his recent interview left many more questions than answers.

Know its a long shot and understand if its an avenue you wouldn't even want to explore. 

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

As a taxpayer I think it’s piss-poor of HMRC to allow one football club to run up £26m of unpaid tax on its own. 
 

They’ve consistently been taken for a ride by football clubs over the years and ought to recognise the signs by now. 

[Rammy03]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yet again will we look to support from business people like LoG? Or the Yanks. But surely they'll have to be investors (sic) with a long term view. They won't have to pay HMRC and the football debts in full the day they take over, there'll be a payments schedule, surely?

There will be a payments schedule but with administration there is a hierarchy of creditors who will be paid in a certain order. If there aren't enough assets to pay creditors or no one comes into the club to take it on, after a certain amount of time it will be wound up.

[Alph]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

As with the players they have to agree to go?

Always wondered about that. 

I guess what kind of player would refuse to leave when presented with the "I have to let you go to raise funds" speech. 

I guess very first place they'll look for assets will obviously be the squad since some players might instantly raise millions and relieve the wage bill. 

Can you believe the players we paid for that left for feck all? How the hell did we manage to constantly manage to make bad investments on footballers!! 

Is the academy the only investment that actually paid off? Has it paid off? Please say it has

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

There will be a payments schedule but with administration there is a hierarchy of creditors who will be paid in a certain order. If there aren't enough assets to pay creditors or no one comes into the club to take it on, after a certain amount of time it will be wound up.

I meant that looking for a buyer we're not looking for someone to put the full amount of the money owed in one go! So it's now a case of convincing the administrator 'you' can afford to buy the club, and then the EFL I presume?

[vonwright]

11 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

It would be great is someone cleverer than me could provide a breakdown of the debt that we're supposedly in - the way Mel has tied the finances in knots to protect himself and/or make our finances look a certaain way, I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of both the reported debts and the money that Mel reckons he's pumped into the club are actually owed to him or one of his companies.

I'm highly sceptical that he's put £200M in with no expectation of seeing a big part of that returned to him. Just how much of the debt is made up of his loans to the club?

In any case which fans does he really think are going to be sympathetic to the line: 'I spend £200m putting your club in such a perilous position it may now go out of business entirely. And now I only have £300m left!'

I would hope he's taken his moral responsibilities seriously in taking this step, and can honestly say he's done everything he could to secure the club's future. Because if we do get liquidated, that's the only thing he will be remembered for. 

[CornwallRam]

4 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Always wondered about that. 

I guess what kind of player would refuse to leave when presented with the "I have to let you go to raise funds" speech. 

I guess very first place they'll look for assets will obviously be the squad since some players might instantly raise millions and relieve the wage bill. 

Can you believe the players we paid for that left for feck all? How the hell did we manage to constantly manage to make bad investments on footballers!! 

Is the academy the only investment that actually paid off? Has it paid off? Please say it has

I could easily be wrong, but logically, the football creditors first rule wouldn't apply if the club was liquidated. It only holds because clubs lose their golden share if they don't stick to it. If the club is folding, the golden share is meaningless, so normal insolvency rules kick in.

Presumably, that risks players being redundant with only government redundancy assistance to rely on, which I believe is next to nothing. 

Why would a player risk that when they can secure a new contract with another club? 

[i-Ram]

9 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

The club guaranteed the MSD loan unfortunately then gave security for its guarantee. 

We have no idea as we do not have sight of the accounts, but @Revthe club must be who took out the loans and carries the debt with MSD, and the latter has a fixed and floating charge over all assets of the club. My understanding is that Morris has also given personal guarantees to cover MSD and there is also a charge over the stadium which might support either the Club’s debt to MSD or Morris’s guarantee (or both). There seem still to be a lot of individuals willing to give Morris the benefit of the doubt. His weasel words on Sunday lead me to think that the structure of the debt and security arrangements are more likely to be to his personal advantage than those of the Club. Only time and the ‘big reveal’ will tell.

[Stive Pesley]

Does anyone know the full story of what happened to Glasgow Rangers? They ended up being liquidated didn't they? Ended up having to form a new club and apply to join the bottom tier of Scottish football and have played their way back through to the top league since?

 

Just wondering if there are any similarities here that might give us an idea of what happens if the club is liquidated

[derby8]

35 minutes ago, Oldben said:

It's rumoured pride Park would cost 81 mullion to buy.

If I were the new owner I'd seek to ground share for a while, probably look at Notts county ground share as that's an 18000 seater stadium.

I would not look to buy back pride Park.

I would consider building a new ground some where around Derby.

Chesterfields 10000 seater Proact Stadium cost around 13 million, I thought it a decent stadium for a new ground.

So a 30000 seater stadium could cost 40 to 45 million.

Half the amount required to buy back pride Park.

 

Worth looking into, even if just a negotiating ploy, but a buyer would examine all options.