Has Warbeball really changed (not negative just a question)

[davenportram]

Has Warneball changed? Or are we just able to do it better and for longer now the players fitness has improved (as Rotherham fans told me it would under Warne)

 

At times early season we pressed, we passed quickly and players attacked at pace, but it wasn’t maintainable for 90 minutes. This in my opinion lead to us sitting deep defending and appearing to not have a plan B or just hoof it

 

Now we are fitter, can pressure and press for prolonged periods and attack at pace for the full 90 (generally) meaning Warnes desired style is what we are seeing.

[trappatoni]

I think the stats show we aren't as direct of late and we don't seem to try and get it wide as fast at all costs.   Now whether this is because Warne has changed his tactics or the players are getting closer to what Warne has always asked I don't know but I think it's for the better. 

Our press looks better too - Collins seems to be fitter and his press has more intensity and he's being backed up better.     Overall we now look like a top 6 side, even a side who might challenge for top 2 in a weak season. 

 If we are going to go with a back 5 though for me I still need convincing - I'm not saying it can't work but I've yet to see enough to be confident the defensive frailties of early season are overcome. 

[plymouthram]

5 hours ago, trappatoni said:

I think the stats show we aren't as direct of late and we don't seem to try and get it wide as fast at all costs.   Now whether this is because Warne has changed his tactics or the players are getting closer to what Warne has always asked I don't know but I think it's for the better. 

Our press looks better too - Collins seems to be fitter and his press has more intensity and he's being backed up better.     Overall we now look like a top 6 side, even a side who might challenge for top 2 in a weak season. 

 If we are going to go with a back 5 though for me I still need convincing - I'm not saying it can't work but I've yet to see enough to be confident the defensive frailties of early season are overcome. 

Agree with this, I for one was critical about Collins, but he seems to be a lot fitter than the first 3 months of the season. Also don't like the back 5 system, even today's match showed gaps and players caught out of position. A better team than Fleetwood would have caused more problems and scored more goals. It's like Warne is trying to justify bringing in Bradley by fitting him in along the two centrehalfs who are head and shoulders above him in quality.

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 hours ago, davenportram said:

Has Warneball changed? Or are we just able to do it better and for longer now the players fitness has improved (as Rotherham fans told me it would under Warne)

 

At times early season we pressed, we passed quickly and players attacked at pace, but it wasn’t maintainable for 90 minutes. This in my opinion lead to us sitting deep defending and appearing to not have a plan B or just hoof it

 

Now we are fitter, can pressure and press for prolonged periods and attack at pace for the full 90 (generally) meaning Warnes desired style is what we are seeing.

We are getting a lot better at being a Paul warne team.

I do think there's been a bit of adaptation on the coaching getting closer to what the players are good at as well.

So, but of both would be my take.

Still not convinced about back 5 though....

[DCFC1388]

Dont know if it is down to Warneball or not but 2 things he wanted us to get better at & says the top teams do is score from set pieces & subs making impacts.

Well I didnt realise until todays game that we 1st in terms of goals from subs & that was before Barkhuizen scored. Then we are 2nd for set piece goals, no coincendence that Peterborough (1st) & Portsmouth (3rd) are also up there so goes to show Warne really does know what gets you out of this league.

[ram59]

I personally don't think that the team were playing how Warne wanted them to earlier in the season. He was making the same critical comments as we were, in post match interviews. Even now, after this good run, I still believe that he's not completely happy with the way they're playing. 

I believe that we're yet to see true 'Warne ball', how he  wishes it to be played.

[Jourdan]

I don’t think there has been huge change in the overall style of play.

I think we try to dominate possession and produce nice build up when we can. How dominant we are to me depends on the ability of the midfield, in particular Bird and Hourihane, to impose themselves on the game.

In some games, their quality shows and they have time and space to operate in. In other games, they are bulldozed or outworked. If we had more of a balance in midfield, we would see more controlled football more often.

We still feel like a team that relies on moments and at the moment, that’s fine because the decisive moments are going our way.

At times, we can feel a little one dimensional. If Mendez Laing or Wilson don’t move a defence around or Hourihane doesn’t deliver that moment of quality, you start to wonder where a goal will come from.

Are we a team that is going to dominate from minute 1 to minute 90? No, but that’s only really disappointing if you are oblivious to the limitations of the group. 

For me, I always expect us to be on our guard against anyone, but equally the opposition will have to pay us the same respect especially when Wilson, NML and others are in the mood.

[rammieib]

I think there is a big change - after Stevenage away he has allowed the players to ‘play football’ but Warne still actively wants it down the channels.

Remember - we were not even allowed to take goal kicks short. That changed overnight.

[Millenniumram]

I mean to be fair he’s been flip flopping around formations like mad this season, so there definitely have been lots of tactical changes in there. However, the style of play remains the same - a focus on athleticism over football, with runners preferred to those with technical ability.

Now, whilst I’m well known not to be a fan of this (or Warne himself for that matter), this is fine so long as it delivers results. My concern is that there remain 2 main limitations with this idea of simply “out working” the opposition:

1. You run the risk of becoming “flat track bullies” - able to batter the poorer teams in the league, but come unstuck against those who simply outplay you in possession. We saw this quite clearly last season, and there is some evidence of it this time around too - with the game against Peterborough on Monday a fine example of when we simply can’t compete with an opponent who focuses on passing the ball well. That said, the league is weaker this season so it’s not quite as evident (and it also feels like we’ve dropped more silly points this season compared with last year).

2. This is my main concern - it kind of lends itself to a pattern of starting slowly while players build up fitness, hitting form and going on a massive run mid season, the running out of steam and collapsing at the end. This is exactly what happened last season, and seems to also be pattern with Warne’s teams in general. Our squad depth is better this season, but we are still an aging team overall, so I do still worry this will come to the fore in the coming months. 

The acid test for me will be how we contend with the next couple of months. We have a run of games against quite lowly opposition which we absolutely MUST capitalise on - can we deal with the relentless winter schedule and avoid our annual New Year collapse? We really need to establish ourselves a commanding position at the summit of the table - COYR

[Jourdan]

32 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

However, the style of play remains the same - a focus on athleticism over football, with runners preferred to those with technical ability.

I think this idea that Warne doesn’t like technical players is a myth, to be honest.

Over his time here, he has shown he will play players who earn his trust and the more technical players have usually been the ones to do that.

He plays Bird and Hourihane in midfield at every opportunity for starters and neither player could ever be considered a ‘runner’. Players like Mendez Laing and Wilson are favoured over less technical players like Ward and Barkhuizen. Forsyth and Nelson are preferred to Elder and Bradley because they are better technically.

McGoldrick was our best player last season and played at every opportunity under Warne too.

Warne values pressing, running and the fitness of his players, absolutely. But clearly he also appreciates that you need good, technical footballers to reap the rewards of that.

[WystonRam]

Yes it has. He took his hat off in the first half yesterday.

Edited January 7 by WystonRam

[TomTom92]

I can’t say there’s anything in particular that looks different. Think most on here have nailed it already; we’re fitter and have a better understanding of what Warne wants. 
 
Im very concerned about the last 10 matches though as it’s well documented that a Warne side drops off, as we did ourselves last season. A couple of signings could remedy this but so far it’s been quiet on the transfer front.

[DavesaRam]

It has changed, in part because of improved fitness, although if we aren’t fit at the start if the season, what’s the point if pre-season training?

The biggest change though is post-Stevenage - I think it was the Lincoln cup match, where it looked like Paul had theiwn his hands in the air and just let the plsyers do what they wanted.

It hasn’t changed that much, actually. We still rely quite a bit on crosses, but we have not brought playing football on the ground using the midfield a bit more.

I think we should drop the term “Warneball”. It us derived from “hoofball”, a derogatory term describing probably the crudest form if football you can get. We are miles and miles ahead of that.

What I find most interesting is that since we started to incorporate more actual football, Collins’ play has improved immeasurably, and he spends a lot more time in the area near the goalposts!

Onwards and upwards!

[Day]

We are winning more consistently. That’s the difference.

 

[Srg]

For me, what Warne says he wants has always appealed to me. He talks about high press, pace, athleticism, moving the ball fast, intensity etc. All of that sounds amazing. However, we don’t always see a lot of it… now, is that down to the players he has or him himself? More the former, it seems. As we see it here and there, but still not consistently enough.

I feel we will kick on further if he gets some of the forward players he truly wants instead of the sticking plasters he’s managed to get in the summer. 

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, David said:

We are winning more consistently. That’s the difference.

 

True , Warne has never really had a problem beating the very poor teams in this League. This season there are more of them . I would just  like to see us hammer a title contender.

[Millenniumram]

9 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I think this idea that Warne doesn’t like technical players is a myth, to be honest.

Over his time here, he has shown he will play players who earn his trust and the more technical players have usually been the ones to do that.

He plays Bird and Hourihane in midfield at every opportunity for starters and neither player could ever be considered a ‘runner’. Players like Mendez Laing and Wilson are favoured over less technical players like Ward and Barkhuizen. Forsyth and Nelson are preferred to Elder and Bradley because they are better technically.

McGoldrick was our best player last season and played at every opportunity under Warne too.

Warne values pressing, running and the fitness of his players, absolutely. But clearly he also appreciates that you need good, technical footballers to reap the rewards of that.

Much of this is true, I’ll give you that. I’d still argue that his hand has been rather “forced” to play more technical players though, because they’re what he mainly inherited from Rosenior.

His recruitment has mainly been of workhorses like Washington, Waghorn, Fornah, Ward etc - which suggests to me those are the sort of players he prefers, and would build a team around them given the chance. He did even try to at the start of this season, before it became evident that it wouldn’t work, and (to his credit) he’s changed tack a bit since. 

It still feels to me though (and it is only a feeling) that he’s itching to return to his 3-5-2 workhorse team as soon as he has the players to.

 

[WystonRam]

30 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

True , Warne has never really had a problem beating the very poor teams in this League. This season there are more of them . I would just  like to see us hammer a title contender.

We did beat Peterborough 4-2 at their place 😃

[Srg]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Much of this is true, I’ll give you that. I’d still argue that his hand has been rather “forced” to play more technical players though, because they’re what he mainly inherited from Rosenior.

His recruitment has mainly been of workhorses like Washington, Waghorn, Fornah, Ward etc - which suggests to me those are the sort of players he prefers, and would build a team around them given the chance. He did even try to at the start of this season, before it became evident that it wouldn’t work, and (to his credit) he’s changed tack a bit since. 

It still feels to me though (and it is only a feeling) that he’s itching to return to his 3-5-2 workhorse team as soon as he has the players to.

 

No, it suggests those are the players the squad didn’t have. And it still doesn’t. We still lack pace and athleticism, and it got shown up badly against Posh. 

[tomsdubs]

He clearly still wants more pace which seems to be more a crucial part of his playing style, Bird and Hourihane dont seem to have the legs to get forward and support the striker like he wants. Hence the amount of aimless crosses we saw early on hoping Collins could outjump both CBs. He's prob 3 or 4 players away from playing his way to full effect.