Matchday Thread - Shrewsbury Town v Derby County (16/08 19:45)

[sage]

I think we will press more and get more bodies in the box as we get fitter. 

We still created enough chances to win one nil. 

[Ambitious]

Credit where credit is due: Shrewsbury put in one of the most disciplined performances I remember watching. They moved as one unit and were really hard to break down. Individual brilliance was required and unfortunately we were short on that this evening.

Sometimes you're going to have these games. We lacked the ingenuity tonight to win the game and that's something we're going to have to work on. Dobbin and Sibley added a spark but too little too late, unfortunately. Disappointed with Bird, who probably could've impacted the game more but was passive. Collins looked to struggle tonight, if he doesn't get a goal soon then his confidence is going to be in the gutter! 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Just got back.

Massively frustrating game and it was one of those games that I was worried about in League One. When a team comes and parks the bus we don't seem to have a clue how to break them down and with the players we had out there we should have been able to.

The tactic was just side to side, didn't really move the ball with any speed which made it so easy for them to defend and close of the space. Everything Infront of the Shrewsbury back 4.

A few times we had chances to break, but the pass that would have set is away was poor. Hourihane, Collins and Mcgoldrick all guilty of that.

Knight at right back is not working. It took until the last minute for him to overlap and drive into the box. When Dobbin came on he kept making the runs but instead of putting a ball over the top for him to run on to, Knight checked back and passed it to Stearman.

We never once tried to play through the middle. I'm not really sure what we're doing with the midfield really. Our tactic was to get it out wide and that was it, when it didn't work one side, we'd pass back to Stearman/Cashin and then try again on the other side and all Shrewsbury did was run side to side. Too easy for them.

Barkhuizen maybe could have done better with his chance, the keeper did close the angle down well. Stearman should score that header and Sibley had a decent chance. But in the end we were lucky they didn't take that big chance at the end.

We need 3 more as a minimum really. A right back is an absolute must. To not sign one would be absolutely ridiculous on the basis that Knight "can do a job there" It's borderline ridiculous we haven't got one in yet cos we would have known Byrne was going ages ago.

We need something different in midfield, another centre forward and a winger for me. 

Highly doubt we will get all of them, probably only bring in a couple more.

The early signs are positive, we should be sat here with 4 wins out of 4 and when teams like this come to Pride Park we'll run riot. It's a brand new group, which are 2 weeks behind everyone else who will get fitter and better the more they play.

Up The Rams 

 

[sage]

5 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Just got back.

Massively frustrating game and it was one of those games that I was worried about in League One. When a team comes and parks the bus we don't seem to have a clue how to break them down and with the players we had out there we should have been able to.

The tactic was just side to side, didn't really move the ball with any speed which made it so easy for them to defend and close of the space. Everything Infront of the Shrewsbury back 4.

A few times we had chances to break, but the pass that would have set is away was poor. Hourihane, Collins and Mcgoldrick all guilty of that.

Knight at right back is not working. It took until the last minute for him to overlap and drive into the box. When Dobbin came on he kept making the runs but instead of putting a ball over the top for him to run on to, Knight checked back and passed it to Stearman.

We never once tried to play through the middle. I'm not really sure what we're doing with the midfield really. Our tactic was to get it out wide and that was it, when it didn't work one side, we'd pass back to Stearman/Cashin and then try again on the other side and all Shrewsbury did was run side to side. Too easy for them.

Barkhuizen maybe could have done better with his chance, the keeper did close the angle down well. Stearman should score that header and Sibley had a decent chance. But in the end we were lucky they didn't take that big chance at the end.

We need 3 more as a minimum really. A right back is an absolute must. To not sign one would be absolutely ridiculous on the basis that Knight "can do a job there" It's borderline ridiculous we haven't got one in yet cos we would have known Byrne was going ages ago.

We need something different in midfield, another centre forward and a winger for me. 

Highly doubt we will get all of them, probably only bring in a couple more.

The early signs are positive, we should be sat here with 4 wins out of 4 and when teams like this come to Pride Park we'll run riot. It's a brand new group, which are 2 weeks behind everyone else who will get fitter and better the more they play.

Up The Rams 

 

When we get a RB we will have something different in midfield. 

Hopefully McGoldrick will start to provide that but of magic around the box to break down these teams

 

[Jourdan]

Rosenior is a very principled coach, but surely he has to ask himself: is this the best, most effective way to win football matches?

He’s coached players here for over three years now and has had his fingerprints all over the tactics and the style of play.  The players change, even now look at us with practically a completely new squad, but many things stay the same. But not for the better. That has to be a concern.

Is Rosenior shrewd enough to recognise when something is not working and have the courage to try something new? So many people have mentioned a lack of bravery and that can only be a reflection of the coaching.

What worries me is that we’ve tried to keep a sense of continuity but then what promised to be a new dawn, a fresh start, a time of hope and excitement may soon slip away and end up with many fans feeling jaded. 

This was always the danger with keeping Rosenior and the coaching staff together. It all feels so familiar. It always feels like it’s philosophy first, results second.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Jourdan

[Ambitious]

I do wonder how close that would be to a League One record of the most passes by a team in a single game - 797 - in comparison Wycombe managed 420 against Shrewsbury on Saturday. 

I'm pretty sure it's the most I have ever seen watching a game. 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

When we get a RB we will have something different in midfield. 

Hopefully McGoldrick will start to provide that but of magic around the box to break down these teams

 

Couldn't agree more mate. That's a massive reason why a right back is a must. Yes Knight can do a job, but he's a midfielder and that's where he should play.

I'm looking forward to Mcgoldrick getting fit. I think we'll see him come off the bench again on Saturday and then possibly get an hour in the cup.

[Crewton]

I recall Steve McClaren's swashbuckling teams of 2013-15 and 16/17 struggling to break down teams who sat in and played on the break/direct/long ball etc, and losing a number of games 1-0. People used to moan about "no Plan B" at a time when we were playing some of the best football at Derby since the Jim Smith peak years. We couldn't solve the problem then, and now after 4 games and working under an EFL business plan, folk (not on here) are screaming for the head of a manager 4 games into his career because he hasn't solved it yet while he's trying to rebuild the playing side of the club. And we're 7th. I f'kin' give up with some of our fans.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Crewton

[Rammy03]

I get that there are no easy games but if we really went for it tonight instead of passing the ball about conservatively, we would have seen these off with ease

[sage]

2 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Couldn't agree more mate. That's a massive reason why a right back is a must. Yes Knight can do a job, but he's a midfielder and that's where he should play.

I'm looking forward to Mcgoldrick getting fit. I think we'll see him come off the bench again on Saturday and then possibly get an hour in the cup.

The other alternative is picking up an serially dominant CF as a sub for when we pin teams back and out the crosses in. 

Could Andy Carroll stay for for 15 mins every other game? 

 

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, sage said:

The other alternative is picking up an serially dominant CF as a sub for when we pin teams back and out the crosses in. 

Could Andy Carroll stay for for 15 mins every other game? 

 

People used to slag him off, but Conor Sammon was the perfect sub during that 2013/14 side to just come on and push his weight around. His presence unsettled defences, despite being a poor footballer with the ball at his feet.

Andy Carroll is a good shout actually.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Credit where credit is due: Shrewsbury put in one of the most disciplined performances I remember watching. They moved as one unit and were really hard to break down. Individual brilliance was required and unfortunately we were short on that this evening.

Sometimes you're going to have these games. We lacked the ingenuity tonight to win the game and that's something we're going to have to work on. Dobbin and Sibley added a spark but too little too late, unfortunately. Disappointed with Bird, who probably could've impacted the game more but was passive. Collins looked to struggle tonight, if he doesn't get a goal soon then his confidence is going to be in the gutter! 

Steve Cotterill is a decent manager. Probably not one you’d count on for progressive football and Championship promotions, but working with a small club like Shrewsbury who are probably just happy to consolidate in League One, he is ideal.

We already share the best defensive record in the league alongside Ipswich. Not really a great surprise that.

[rammieib]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Rosenior is a very principled coach, but surely he has to ask himself: is this the best, most effective way to win football matches?

He’s coached players here for over three years now and has had his fingerprints all over the tactics and the style of play.  The players change, even now look at us with practically a completely new squad, but many things stay the same. But not for the better. That has to be a concern.

Is Rosenior shrewd enough to recognise when something is not working and have the courage to try something new? So many people have mentioned a lack of bravery and that can only be a reflection of the coaching.

What worries me is that we’ve tried to keep a sense of continuity but then what promised to be a new dawn, a fresh start, a time of hope and excitement may soon slip away and end up with many fans feeling jaded. 

This was always the danger with keeping Rosenior and the coaching staff together. It all feels so familiar. It always feels like it’s philosophy first, results second.

We’re 7th mate. Not 24th. Over reactions!?!?

[rammieib]

3 hours ago, sage said:

The other alternative is picking up an serially dominant CF as a sub for when we pin teams back and out the crosses in. 

Could Andy Carroll stay for for 15 mins every other game? 

 

“We can only give you 3k a week and you’ll only play 15 minutes every other week but will you come”

Cant see how you say no to that offer!

[rammieib]

3 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

I get that there are no easy games but if we really went for it tonight instead of passing the ball about conservatively, we would have seen these off with ease

I disagree. What does ‘really go for it’ mean against a team that puts 11 men behind the ball and doesn’t even actively pressure our defenders when they have the ball?

If we really went for it - then 1) we’d be lumping high balls into their three centre backs who were all six foot plus and just turn the ball over constantly (fans would get annoyed) and 2) Sure enough they would score on a counter.

Now granted - we could have A) Crossed the ball better and more frequently/earlier, B) I’m not happy with Three centre mids who don’t break into the box and these areas we could improve a lot And C) all our players constantly want it to feet including the wingers. A run in behind every now and then wouldn’t go amiss.

It’s early days though and Rosenoir is building a philosophy which I am perfectly happy to get behind.

[Carl Sagan]

Just in. Zero surprise to see we had a lot of possession but it ended with Derby 0 and, reading the match thread, we created very little indeed. 

For me Rosenior has used up all the goodwill. We need to see he realizes he's got team selection and tactics wrong and persisting with dreary defensive possession football in front of the opposition is not the way to win football matches in this league. So very disappointed. So very unsurprised. His midfield is totally wrong, completely negative and lacking in penetration and arracking ideas. Very, very easy for our opponents. 

[Anag Ram]

I’ve been saying for about three years now that for some reason we have a club full of players who have no interest in scoring a goal on the football field.

Go from keeper to number eleven and tell me which of those players shows a burning desire to get in the box for crosses, who you would expect to win an attacking header and who has more than two shots in a game.

Then if you’ve named one, check out their recent goal scoring record.

There’s no ambition. Everyone leaves the responsibility to everyone else. 

We play the ball around comfortably and that’s tribute to good coaching but we need extra sessions on smashing the ball in the net and perhaps a bigger goal bonus ?

The trouble is, when an opportunity presents itself the players hack at it because they aren’t confident in their ability to put the chance away. Sibley at least puts himself in the position to score but his record speaks for itself. 

Collins was taking up some good positions in his first few games but last night was passively next to stronger defenders. He didn’t fashion himself a single chance.

Not whinging because we obviously have good players and I’m sure the coaching team is acutely aware of the scoring issue and will be trying to address it.

[Blondest Goat]

2 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Just in. Zero surprise to see we had a lot of possession but it ended with Derby 0 and, reading the match thread, we created very little indeed. 

For me Rosenior has used up all the goodwill. We need to see he realizes he's got team selection and tactics wrong and persisting with dreary defensive possession football in front of the opposition is not the way to win football matches in this league. So very disappointed. So very unsurprised. His midfield is totally wrong, completely negative and lacking in penetration and arracking ideas. Very, very easy for our opponents. 

Do the words "clean sheet",  "7 points from 4 games" and "7th in league"  mean anything to you? 

The lack of bravery on the ball is a worrying hangover from the last 2 seasons but come on its still too early to be judging Liam and its hardly been a bad start. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Blondest Goat
.

[Gritstone Ram]

I didn’t go to the match or watched it on RamsTV but reading the comments I keep thinking back to before DC came in to save our club. I think at that point most people would have taken a 0-0 at Shrewsbury or even just playing Shrewsbury. I also believe people didn’t care much about the league so long as they had a club to support. Now I know we want Derby to do well. We are now into the season and we want to be up there challenging but just step back a little bit and think back to June and how you were feeling then. We had around 5 players we knew had contracts. For us to be even competitive this year will be a fine act by the people at the club. The players we have signed has exceeded my expectations already. Ok we are finding our feet we are also finding a way to win matches. If it was that easy why aren’t we in the PL? Just have a reality check and think what you’d be saying if CK had taken over the club. I would take a 0-0 at Shrewsbury under the current regime and am glad we played in a kit with no sponsorship rather than what ever other outcome could have been.

[Chester40]

2 hours ago, rammieib said:

I disagree. What does ‘really go for it’ mean against a team that puts 11 men behind the ball and doesn’t even actively pressure our defenders when they have the ball?

If we really went for it - then 1) we’d be lumping high balls into their three centre backs who were all six foot plus and just turn the ball over constantly (fans would get annoyed) and 2) Sure enough they would score on a counter.

Now granted - we could have A) Crossed the ball better and more frequently/earlier, B) I’m not happy with Three centre mids who don’t break into the box and these areas we could improve a lot And C) all our players constantly want it to feet including the wingers. A run in behind every now and then wouldn’t go amiss.

It’s early days though and Rosenoir is building a philosophy which I am perfectly happy to get behind.

Sums everything up perfectly for me. Great post.

Think the fans wouldn't be so disappointed if last night wasn't painfully reminiscent of the Cocu era. 

It wasn't a disaster but Liam needs to learn quickly how to change things/address issues rather than just plug away doing the same thing. I personally find possession for possession's sake pretty annoying.

More attacking performance, few tweaks and 3 points on Sat and everything will be right in the world.