Embargo.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, JfR said:

It was reported that he'd said something in the meeting about walking away. Some have interpreted this to have been "if fans start chanting "Morris Out", I'll walk away".

Well he is only human. There must be a point at which animosity from fans would lead him to say: not a penny more, even though I love the club. Can’t imagine the ranting on here would have that effect. But the public protests some on here are clamouring for might well do 

[Bianoic]

1 hour ago, Charlotte Ram said:

HMRC will not let the debt sit there without a payment plan, that is a fact, I have also heard that a majority of clubs in the EFL are having payment plans with HMRC as are most small/medium sized companies in the UK, on VAT HMRC are giving up to 12 months payment plans on 2020 2nd quarter payments, this is a definite fact based on personal experience.

You have got form for previously stating matters as fact which have subsequently been demonstrated to you to be nothing of the sort.

And you have implied that you have an experience in finance matters that makes you something of an expert

Yet you have been proven to be wrong on some of the most very basic of fundamentals that exist in the financial world

So not only is your credibility questionable, to say the least, you are also proving the old saying that “ a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing”

[JfR]

2 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

If there's a plan in place, I wouldn't I thought we'd be in trouble unless the EFL really want to make an example of the owner.

I wouldn't be so sure on the EFL necessarily acting reasonably about HMRC deferrals. They did put 10 clubs under embargoes earlier this year for "late filing of accounts", even though all were simply taking advantage of the government's extended period for filing accounts, an extended deadline which the EFL themselves made use of. Given that precedent, I wouldn't think it's impossible that there's an agreement in place between the club and the HMRC, but the EFL are being more stringent than the body that are actually owed money. 

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, JfR said:

I wouldn't be so sure on the EFL necessarily acting reasonably about HMRC deferrals. They did put 10 clubs under embargoes earlier this year for "late filing of accounts", even though all were simply taking advantage of the government's extended period for filing accounts, an extended deadline which the EFL themselves made use of. Given that precedent, I wouldn't think it's impossible that there's an agreement in place between the club and the HMRC, but the EFL are being more stringent than the body that are actually owed money. 

It may be a culmination of factors such as other outstanding debts that is giving the EFL concerns regarding the HMRC

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Honestly, what is the end game here?

The EFL are clearly blocking a takeover, they want Mel to take some form of punishment before he leaves Derby. It's obvious Rick Parry won't sleep at night until he knows Mel Morris is responsible for Derby County getting a points deduction resulting in relegation.

No takeover means we are in this never ending Mel Morris Mess.

If we get relegated with even lower revenue I just can't see how our club survives?

We arent paying the bills now, how on earth do we pay the tax man, transfer installments etc in league 1 if we cannot afford to do that now.

Not to mention the need to buy an actual squad of players next summer.

It feels like the club are in a maze without an exit.

[Norman]

1 hour ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Honestly, what is the end game here?

The EFL are clearly blocking a takeover, they want Mel to take some form of punishment before he leaves Derby. It's obvious Rick Parry won't sleep at night until he knows Mel Morris is responsible for Derby County getting a points deduction resulting in relegation.

No takeover means we are in this never ending Mel Morris Mess.

If we get relegated with even lower revenue I just can't see how our club survives?

We arent paying the bills now, how on earth do we pay the tax man, transfer installments etc in league 1 if we cannot afford to do that now.

Not to mention the need to buy an actual squad of players next summer.

It feels like the club are in a maze without an exit.

Imagine if the last day of the season went slightly differently. What mess would we be in? 

[richinspain]

5 hours ago, Norman said:

Imagine if the last day of the season went slightly differently. What mess would we be in? 

It can't be that difficult, we're already up to page 59 of people imagining things.

[davenportram]

On 03/09/2021 at 01:03, Norman said:

Imagine if the last day of the season went slightly differently. What mess would we be in? 

No mess at all - administration, creditors agreement 10 point deduction new owners 

mel on the other hand would have got peanuts from selling us - he’d be in the mess 

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, davenportram said:

No mess at all - administration, creditors agreement 10 point deduction new owners 

mel on the other hand would have got peanuts from selling us - he’d be in the mess 

Sell off all our good players on the cheap, still owe all the footballing debts. Seems fairly messy. Oh and Mel would lose the ground to MSD who have security on it for the debt.

Edited September 4, 2021 by RoyMac5

[davenportram]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sell off all our good players on the cheap, still owe all the footballing debts. Seems fairly messy. Oh and Mel would lose the ground to MSD who have security on it for the debt.

We’ve no players left to sell. I’d rather administration and new owners than the current can’t do feck all. Whoever has the ground will lease it back to us. 

[Rev]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sell off all our good players on the cheap, still owe all the footballing debts. Seems fairly messy. Oh and Mel would lose the ground to MSD who have security on it for the debt.

Does Gabay still have a loan outstanding?

[ilkleyram]

11 minutes ago, davenportram said:

We’ve no players left to sell. I’d rather administration and new owners than the current can’t do feck all. Whoever has the ground will lease it back to us. 

We’ve plenty of players to sell - Jozwiak, Knight, Bird, Shinnie, Lawrence, Bielik, the list goes on. At what price though because the administrators would be letting them go at cheap rates come January to get them off the books, bit like Byrne and Marshall.

And at what price does the ground get leased back to us? Maybe an unaffordable price for us, one that makes us nomadic perhaps. We could see if Leicester want us, or Coventry maybe. Notts County perhaps. That would work well.

We actually have done business in this window. Limited, yes; not all the players wanted in numbers and quality perhaps but to say that ‘nothing’ is happening is not true.

Administration is no panacea as we will find out if Mel decides that he’s really had enough. We’d better hope that he doesn’t. 

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, davenportram said:

We’ve no players left to sell. I’d rather administration and new owners than the current can’t do feck all. Whoever has the ground will lease it back to us. 

So the young players and the Poles, we're not bothered about then. ? Oh and all the smaller firms that lose out when a club goes into admin. And we still have the footballing debts, you missed that bit.

Edited September 4, 2021 by RoyMac5

[davenportram]

46 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

We’ve plenty of players to sell - Jozwiak, Knight, Bird, Shinnie, Lawrence, Bielik, the list goes on. At what price though because the administrators would be letting them go at cheap rates come January to get them off the books, bit like Byrne and Marshall.

And at what price does the ground get leased back to us? Maybe an unaffordable price for us, one that makes us nomadic perhaps. We could see if Leicester want us, or Coventry maybe. Notts County perhaps. That would work well.

We actually have done business in this window. Limited, yes; not all the players wanted in numbers and quality perhaps but to say that ‘nothing’ is happening is not true.

Administration is no panacea as we will find out if Mel decides that he’s really had enough. We’d better hope that he doesn’t. 

The ground owners wouldn’t make any money if they didn’t lease it to us at a sensible price - sell it knock it down for a development?  They’d make more from a long term lease tbh

administrators dint always sell players if a buyer comes in quick.

 

it’ll hurt Mels pocket more than the club.

[Rev]

6 minutes ago, davenportram said:

The ground owners wouldn’t make any money if they didn’t lease it to us at a sensible price - sell it knock it down for a development?  They’d make more from a long term lease tbh

administrators dint always sell players if a buyer comes in quick.

 

it’ll hurt Mels pocket more than the club.

I don't understand why you'd say that. 

If Mel's owed the largest amount, which could be the case, what would administration achieve that he couldn't sort as part of a takeover.

Football debts would be no different, maybe we could screw the taxman and the hundreds of local suppliers for a few quid, I don't see 12 points of gain from those savings.

[davenportram]

5 minutes ago, Rev said:

I don't understand why you'd say that. 

If Mel's owed the largest amount, which could be the case, what would administration achieve that he couldn't sort as part of a takeover.

Football debts would be no different, maybe we could screw the taxman and the hundreds of local suppliers for a few quid, I don't see 12 points of gain from those savings.

On a takeover he’d want it paying - under administration he wouldn’t get it all.

[ilkleyram]

21 minutes ago, davenportram said:

The ground owners wouldn’t make any money if they didn’t lease it to us at a sensible price - sell it knock it down for a development?  They’d make more from a long term lease tbh

administrators dint always sell players if a buyer comes in quick.

 

it’ll hurt Mels pocket more than the club.

And what if the administrators don't find a buyer, or the buyer is Alonso, or the sheikh, or the 3amigos, or their equivalent. Are you happy then? Are you happy to rely on the EFL to agree the type of owner we might like? Or what if it takes ages to sort out (sound familiar?) and the administrators are forced to sell players in January to keep us as a going concern? Are you happy then?

And don’t believe that the ground's owners will feel forced to lease the ground to us.  The land has value even without us in it.  What if they lease it to us for a year but then double the rental next year and again the year after? Are you happy then?

Administration is no quick and easy fix. It’s not designed to be a utopian solution. And neither should it be, in football or any other business. 

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, davenportram said:

On a takeover he’d want it paying - under administration he wouldn’t get it all.

You can't possibly know that though. 

He may be willing to write it off, or leave the debt on the books with a very favourable repayment schedule.

Most of the debt was on the holding company anyway, nothing to stop him selling Derby County FC from that company relatively debt free and cutting his losses.

Man Utd for instance are several hundred million pounds in debt, yet manage to function as a going concern, as are several other PL clubs.

I still cling on to the belief he'd walk away for nothing and cut his losses if he can find a suitable buyer, although recent events have tested that faith admittedly.

What can't be allowed to carry on is this ghost ship of a club, running every department on a minimal budget, every day seeming another step closer to the edge of existence.

Morale of the few staff left behind the scenes must be on the floor.

 

 

 

 

[jono]

42 minutes ago, Rev said:

You can't possibly know that though. 

He may be willing to write it off, or leave the debt on the books with a very favourable repayment schedule.

Most of the debt was on the holding company anyway, nothing to stop him selling Derby County FC from that company relatively debt free and cutting his losses.

Man Utd for instance are several hundred million pounds in debt, yet manage to function as a going concern, as are several other PL clubs.

I still cling on to the belief he'd walk away for nothing and cut his losses if he can find a suitable buyer, although recent events have tested that faith admittedly.

What can't be allowed to carry on is this ghost ship of a club, running every department on a minimal budget, every day seeming another step closer to the edge of existence.

Morale of the few staff left behind the scenes must be on the floor.

 

 

 

 

I just struggle with the whole championship finance model … Mel walks away as he well could, There’s the club, debt free. I’d guess Mel might keep the deeds for PP and be happy to lease, rent or sell it to the new guys. Regardless of this, the new owners get DCFC and they get it for a tenner … but who wants that when it loses exty thump million a year ? 

[Rev]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

I just struggle with the whole championship finance model … Mel walks away as he well could, There’s the club, debt free. I’d guess Mel might keep the deeds for PP and be happy to lease, rent or sell it to the new guys. Regardless of this, the new owners get DCFC and they get it for a tenner … but who wants that when it loses exty thump million a year ? 

Nail on the head Jono, it's hard to compete at this level.

What we need to do is find a sustainable way of competing, and if that means us dropping down the league's I'll take it.

Do we need a Cat 1 academy, it's not helped us cling onto young talent so far, has it, so is it worth the investment?

Do we need to pay weekly wages in excess of 5 figures? 

The free agents we've signed on half that look good business, so far.

I'm not bothered who we play, in whatever league, all I follow is Derby.

If clubs like Luton and Barnsley can live within their means at this level, our larger fanbase should at least offer us the same opportunity.

Maybe given time we'll have a Springer of a season, and compete towards the top end of the Championship, maybe we'll be forever a Lg1 or 2 team, who knows, but at the very least we'd be able to know they'll be a team to support going forwards, which is not the case at the moment.