Embargo.

[Bris Vegas]

On 07/09/2021 at 01:04, G STAR RAM said:

Based on the football we have watched over the last 3 seasons, I would gladly trade positions. 

Watched Burnley against Leeds the other week and they aren't half as bad as people make out, its just football snobbery.

I think it’s a generation thing.

I was born in the 80s so for those my age we probably have it ingrained in us that Derby’s most successful period was played with a freeflowing style and with technical players.

The Jim Smith days created an image.

George Burley and Steve McClaren also had seasons most of us are fond of.

The only other time we’ve had success, in my lifetime, playing a different brand is the Billy Davies promotion season and most of us are scarred from what happened afterwards.

It’s not a slight on Burnley. But the reason why many wouldn’t want to be like them is because we haven’t had any success (bar one season) playing that type of football in the past 30+
years. 

Every time we’ve played ‘percentage’ football it has been crap.

[Kernow]

 

[Sparkle]

6 minutes ago, Kernow said:

 

So on google translate it says EFL want to apply points deduction and Derby county say what we did was legal and fair and we will take you to a legal route if you do that - EFL says we can’t win in a legal route so we will keep you in limbo.

also it’s about time Arsenal got relegated isn’t  it  

[Gone]

Oh just ducking get on with it 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

So on google translate it says EFL want to apply points deduction and Derby county say what we did was legal and fair and we will take you to a legal route if you do that - EFL says we can’t win in a legal route so we will keep you in limbo.

also it’s about time Arsenal got relegated isn’t  it  

Its our fault they got promoted in the first place.  A middling Division 2 side till we gave them our vote. Based on finances as usual.

[Abu Derby]

-9 isn’t as bad as the -21 first mooted. 

[RoyMac5]

Why would we agree to a points deduction - what have we done wrong here?!

[Boycie]

What’s the penalty for going into administration and a buyer stepping straight in? 

[r_wilcockson]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why would we agree to a points deduction - what have we done wrong here?!

It's basically like scrabble. Our team starts with a D, so that's -3 and ends in a Y so that's -6. It's unfortunate, but that's the rules that the EFL have just made up. 

[duncanjwitham]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why would we agree to a points deduction - what have we done wrong here?!

We still don’t know what charges the potential deductions even relate to. Are they for failing FFP in the restated accounts, not submitting those accounts on time, the other non-submitted accounts, the HMRC thing, something else?

Honestly, at this stage it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s 0 points because we haven’t failed FFP and -9 tacked on for not failing under aggravating circumstances.

[alexxxxx]

Efl want us relegated it's been clear for about 18 months.

Tbh with -9/-12 I'd support a legal battle. At least then we might stay up. -6 may be worth putting it to bed. 

The efl are basically saying 'get relegated' or take us to court. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by alexxxxx

[Rev]

16 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

So on google translate it says EFL want to apply points deduction and Derby county say what we did was legal and fair and we will take you to a legal route if you do that - EFL says we can’t win in a legal route so we will keep you in limbo.

also it’s about time Arsenal got relegated isn’t  it  

The EFL rules are quite clear, there is no legal recourse once the league has handed down a verdict, as a condition of membership.

This puts us in a grey area. 

Employers often used to put clauses in employment contracts, that couldn't legally be enforceable, for instance preventing an employee joining a direct competitor.

The employee might have signed the contract, but if the clause contradicts the law it's pretty much useless in the vast majority of cases, the exception being very senior members of staff etc.

I'm sure Man City would have encountered similar clauses in the case Uefa bought against them recently, yet they battered them through CAS.

If we really believe we're in the right legally, we should fight on through similar means. 

All depends on the stomach, and funding, for a fight.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Rev said:

The EFL rules are quite clear, there is no legal recourse once the league has handed down a verdict, as a condition of membership.

This puts us in a grey area. 

How did Sheff Weds appeal their points deduction then?

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

We still don’t know what charges the potential deductions even relate to. Are they for failing FFP in the restated accounts, not submitting those accounts on time, the other non-submitted accounts, the HMRC thing, something else?

Honestly, at this stage it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s 0 points because we haven’t failed FFP and -9 tacked on for not failing under aggravating circumstances.

As in -9 for annoying the EFL? 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I can't help but think there's more grey in the revised accounts - if it were cut and dried that using straight line we exceeded allowable losses by X we'd have a good idea about that by now and well established precedence for the penalty.

Ultimatly, I think it's this:

5 minutes ago, Rev said:

All depends on the stomach, and funding, for a fight.

 

[Rev]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did Sheff Weds appeal their points deduction then?

To the EFL themselves. I guess they set up a different panel to hear the appeal, and Wednesday were happy enough with the result to not challenge it further.

Without having an in depth knowledge of their case, it did seem pretty open and shut on the guilt, just the punishment was open to interpretation.

If we don't think we've broken any laws, or indeed stated rules, which seems to be the case, I'd lawyer up to the high heavens, encourage the auditors to do the same, and see them in court.

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

As in -9 for annoying the EFL? 

The FFP rules say you get docked up to 12 points, based on the exact amount of overspend. Up to an additional 9 points can be added on for “aggravating circumstances”, which is supposed to be for things like deliberately hiding what you’re doing, knowingly breaking the rules etc.  In our case there’s no way that should apply, because we have pages and pages of stuff from the DC written reasons about us gaining no direct sporting advantage from the amortisation policy, and having no reason to suspect what we’re doing was against the rules etc.

I was (slightly facetiously) suggesting that if we haven’t failed FFP, the EFL might try and tack the 9 points on anyway for what they construe as maliciously (not) breaking the rules.

[duncanjwitham]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did Sheff Weds appeal their points deduction then?

“Legal recourse” as in “We’ll see you in court”. Sheff Wed used the EFLs own appeals process.

[hintonsboots]

So we are still arguing our amortisation method, which isn’t against any EFL rules. So I wouldn’t accept any points deduction, except a suspended one. I’m sure our legal team have made that perfectly clear.

It’s taking so long to negotiate because our lot are in Derby, EFL House is in Preston and Steve Gibson in in Middlesbrough.

[davenportram]

I think the EFL are trying to save face - how can we be punished for doing something that at the time was accepted by the EFL as not breaking the rules but they retrospectively decide wasnt within the rules?