Rams Trust: A Letter to the Club

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Jeez, our club is in the poop, nobody knows what going on and the thing that animates more than most posting in this thread is that they weren't consulted, we've got a poet signing it and someone who signed it blocked a poster on this forum or they think the tone is a bit aloof.

It's a request for info, written by a group of fans who - collectively - have a fair claim to represent more than a single point of view...

Yes, I always found the anti-Ramstrust stuff amusing, they undoubtedly come across as pompous, so join them and change that! Or start your own campaign...

Me, I can't be bothered to do owt but moan. ?

[Nuwtfly]

26 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I can understand those being on the list as they actually represent a group of fans.

But not sure how this group of people can claim to represent the views of anyone but themselves?

Yes, I can see your point.

I’m also not quite sure why this had to be kept on the hush-hush. It’s not like the points that are being made in the letter will come as a shock to the club. All these things have been being said for weeks now, across the fan base.

If they (being the RamsTrust) had simply stated that they intended to send a letter to the club demanding clarity and answers, I imagine it still would have garnered thousands of signatures and therefore would have been more inclusionary.

I am personally a bit gutted I wasn’t able to sign it - I don’t think the fact that I don’t have a podcast, or a blog, or a book, makes me less of a fan. But I also appreciate that this is not necessarily a petition of sorts.

The more people you get behind the cause, the better, in my opinion.

[Spanish]

10 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

Nick Webster (Flagman)

Paddy Breslin (84 club)

Jimmy Gregory (Rams Group)

Ollie Wright (Derby County Blog)

Chris Parsons (Steve Bloomer’s Washing podcast)

Jamie Thrasivoulou (Poet)

Ryan Hills (‘Pride’ author)

are these guys not members of Ramstrust already?

[Mihangel]

17 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Jeez, our club is in the poop, nobody knows what going on and the thing that animates more than most posting in this thread is that they weren't consulted, we've got a poet signing it and someone who signed it blocked a poster on this forum or they think the tone is a bit aloof.

It's a request for info, written by a group of fans who - collectively - have a fair claim to represent more than a single point of view. If you care enough then join Ramstrust (trust me, they will happily take all the help they can get) or set up your own group. I might get on my hind legs at Nick claiming to speak for the fans but at least he's making the effort to do so, not sitting behind some keyboard going 'well they didn't ask me before sending it'.

Fundamentally, I don't agree with them. I'd be happy to sign a letter that said Dear Mel, please ignore those people demanding to be told stuff and focus on getting the club sorted. Cheers. Two reasons, a) That's what I want to happen, I don't feel the need to be told what's going on constantly, b) I want to keep Mel happy. Pee Mel off and we've got even more problems.... Just my opinion, some will agree, some won't but I don't claim to represent anyone.

You may be right, the fact that some of them are **** **** is irrelevant but that just adds to the fun right?

[superzak]

RAMSTRUST you do not represent me as a Derby County supporter so please stop .

[Curtains]

10 hours ago, David said:

Full transparency. I was invited to this meeting, but chose not to put my name or the forums to this.

Reason being as I have previously stated, this forum is a platform for fans views, I am not an elected chairman/spokesman to speak on behalf of you all, simply the creator of this platform for fans views which can already be openly seen by the club.

I did not feel comfortable signing on behalf of the forum without consulting you all, and felt my name without attaching dcfcfans.uk held no weight.

My own personal views are that this letter has been created out of concern for the clubs future and regardless of how you feel towards any of the groups that have signed off on it, do not see this as an opportunity to attack supporters groups for speaking on behalf of Derby County fans.

We all love this club. ?

They want them to come on RD to answer supporters questions.

I think RD has been over critical recently particularly the representatives coming on from podcasts etc 

Club statements are more than fine for me. 
 

Why are we doubting Mel all the time he must be well fed up.

I thank you for running this forum and keeping us all informed.

[Rev]

42 minutes ago, I DONT MIND said:

I Have already sent an e-mail last night expressing that from myself and some close Rams that this doesn't speak for us as a whole.

i think the letter is misguided and trouble making at a time when it isn't needed, i am a member of the official supporters club and i see it is been signed by one of the officials, again no official consultation has took place.

Don't usually get annoyed about anything DCFC other than results but is has really irked myself and a few others close to me.

 

COYR.

Should have been Haas.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Or start your own campaign...

With all these supporter groups popping up, we're already risking getting into a People's Front of Judea situation.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DarkFruitsRam7

[StantonRam]

People's Front of Judea?  Splitters!...

[StantonRam]

Judean People's Front?  Splitters!...

[StantonRam]

etc

[BaaLocks]

12 minutes ago, superzak said:

RAMSTRUST you do not represent me as a Derby County supporter so please stop .

I think you actually meant that as a serious post didn't you? A whole collective should cease putting forward statements for no other reason than they don't represent your personal views.

[Gaspode]

38 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Then phone Radio Derby and speak to them. I'm going to leave it here as I don't want to derail the thread but what I will say is that over the years most of the times when I've seen people take a pop at Rams Trust it has nearly always been because they feel RT are so self important that they didn't take time to listen to one fan and put their views forward on their behalf. The irony!

1. I was having a 'pop' at Jim Wheeler (not Rams Trust directly though as their main spokesman it's hard to separate the two) who claimed that all 30,000 Rams fans would have signed the letter if he'd been able to ask them....

2. Why would I ring Radio Derby? - my view (as I've previously posted on here) is that the club will issue statements as and when they are able to - the naive view that all the club's business should be done in public says an awful lot about the intelligence of those making the demands. Just look at the hand-wringing and wailing over the Alonso bid as an example.....I genuinely hope that the next time we get any takeover news is when it's done and dusted.

3. If you don't think Rams Trust are self-important, look at who is top of the list of 'signatories'. If their demand for a place on the board is ever met, I'm pretty sure who will be claiming the right to be that representative - and as an aside, why they are demanding a place now when any decision will immediately be invalidated by a takeover? - simply re-inforcing their old raison d'etre....

4. We are punters who pay to watch the team - that's all. However long we've been watching or however much the club is our life-blood, we just pay to watch. We have absolutely no right to demand anything of Mel or the next owner....

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

With all these supporter groups popping up, we're already risking getting into a People's Front of Judea situation.

Indeed. Quick chose your supporters group name now! ? 

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I think you actually meant that as a serious post didn't you? A whole collective should cease putting forward statements for no other reason than they don't represent your personal views.

So if the club give you a load of platitudes you would be happy. 
 

 

[24Charlie]

The club have done everything they said they would. They have made statements on all topics and then said there would be no more comment until there is something to say. They have been consistent in this.

The vast majority of the concerns highlighted in the letter are fuelled by media speculation and in my opinion the club should not start commenting on media speculation because when does it stop. No business operates that way.

When the club know something we will. 
 

@David stance on this is the right one. ? 

Edited May 18, 2021 by 24Charlie
Typo

[DarkFruitsRam7]

30 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

4. We are punters who pay to watch the team - that's all. However long we've been watching or however much the club is our life-blood, we just pay to watch. We have absolutely no right to demand anything of Mel or the next owner....

Technically? You're correct, we don't have a right to demand anything of any owner. And I certainly don't think things have got to the point where we need to be demanding takeover information.

However, there are certain things that I'd fully support fans of any club standing up for and requesting answers to. The Super League proposal being one. Fans' hard-earned season ticket money being another.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DarkFruitsRam7

[nottingram]

I am a bit confused as to how the current board is supposed to “commit to involving supporters in future decision making” when it is quite likely we will soon have a different board. 

Likewise, how can they guarantee the future of the club is secure? I don’t imagine they could absolutely guarantee that even if they were remaining in stewardship let alone when the club is being sold. Of course, hopefully they can make provisions to sell to a buyer who appears to be legitimate but not sure what more they could do in this regard?

I admit some clarity on the ticket situation would be great. People have invested their money into this and do deserve the right to know when they may get it back, even if this is currently that they do not know, it would be a bit of clarity.

It wasn’t long ago the club was being roundly mocked for the volume of club statements released.

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

That's a bit harsh, they have done everything they can to put as many representative signatures to the letter as possible. I don't feel they are trying to speak for me but they are trying to say that the views presented in that letter are shared beyond any one group. I don't agree with all the points (particularly the one on board meetings - that is them using this situation to reignite their agenda) but the bulk of what is asked for is pretty level and fair. If nothing else, at least they took the time to put it together and register with the owners the general concern of the club - I don't find that self important as an aim.

You say "I don't feel they are trying to speak for me", as you are entitled to opine, of course, but with the way they have worded the letter, I do feel that is precisely what they are attempting to do. 
Regardless of their stance, regardless of the topic, for them to suggest the letter conveys the thoughts, ideas, and opinions of anyone other than "The undersigned" is morally wrong.

So-called heads of so-called recognised group(s) inferring total agreement of said group membership, when members of such group(s) have clearly admitted on here that they were not consulted?  What's that all about!
One could almost argue that it may even have "deceitful" connotations, given the structure of their wording. 

That letter should include... and allude to... "We, the undersigned" at most, and as it doesn't, they have left themselves wide open for what I conceive as "fair and just criticism", in my extremely humble and unknowing opinion.

Unusually for 3 pages on here, I'm not convinced I've spotted any comments I would consider "harsh", thus far, whichever side of "the argument" they favour.

 

Taking the time... and effort... to register their perceived discord is, in itself, commendable.  Arguably better than the likes of me sat on my 'arris doing naff all... but they really do need to consider the wording of such missives, should they have any desire for support from others.

 

[BaaLocks]

31 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

1. I was having a 'pop' at Jim Wheeler (not Rams Trust directly though as their main spokesman it's hard to separate the two) who claimed that all 30,000 Rams fans would have signed the letter if he'd been able to ask them....

2. Why would I ring Radio Derby? - my view (as I've previously posted on here) is that the club will issue statements as and when they are able to - the naive view that all the club's business should be done in public says an awful lot about the intelligence of those making the demands. Just look at the hand-wringing and wailing over the Alonso bid as an example.....I genuinely hope that the next time we get any takeover news is when it's done and dusted.

3. If you don't think Rams Trust are self-important, look at who is top of the list of 'signatories'. If their demand for a place on the board is ever met, I'm pretty sure who will be claiming the right to be that representative - and as an aside, why they are demanding a place now when any decision will immediately be invalidated by a takeover? - simply re-inforcing their old raison d'etre....

4. We are punters who pay to watch the team - that's all. However long we've been watching or however much the club is our life-blood, we just pay to watch. We have absolutely no right to demand anything of Mel or the next owner....

1: Fair enough, didn't hear it so can't comment.

2: I don't think anyone is suggesting the club's business should be done in public, as I've just said on another thread. To your point four, we're just paying customers. But we do have a right to ask the questions, just as we would ask Nike if they use Thai sweatshops to make their products or Pret to see if they use line caught tuna in their baguettes. As for takeover news, I'm really very happy the way the Alonso discussions went, if 11 Points or anyone else did 1% of preventing that clown being near our club then thank you all for that.

3: As stated elsewhere, I don't agree on their using this situation to restate a claim to be at board meetings. We agree.

4: Yes, I am a customer of Derby County. They made me that years ago when they asked me to buy three shirts a season, introduced dynamic pricing, charged me >£40 to watch a single match. Yup, that is what my club is now - a product that I choose to enjoy when it suits me. But it is one I think we are able to ask questions of, for exactly that reason. The days of blind faith and following your club till you die are gone, the bonds are broken from both sides, so you are able to challenge it as a customer, like you say, and that is all that has been done. If the club don't want to answer the questions / can't answer the questions then 'no comment' will have to suffice and move on.