V Shrewsbury Town (H) 4th March 15.00

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

So there were two main reasons we ended up with just one point today. The first one is Derby County FC, and the second one is that we were well and truly EFL'd today. I will expand on the last point, resurrecting my penchant for giving refs a hard time. Let's get that out of the way.

For the first 30 minutes I thought he did really well, and was going to outdo Ruby Tuesday, starting with coming in hard on timewasting, and booking Leahy for throwing the ball away. Not being undermined by poor decisions we played tremendously well for the first half, and were deservedly 2 up at half time. However, from the 30 minute mark onwards the ref let them kick the ball away and waste time with importunity. He rightly booked McGoldrick for a professional foul, some 5 minutes after the event because of playing the advantage, then having to wait for the ball to go out of play. Excellent refereeing. But then he got the mandatory EFL edict and his performance flipped.

I noticed from that point onwards we hardly got any free kicks near the opposition penalty area. Leahy was obviously trying to run the match without playing any football, bar taking the penalty, which the self-important little runt stole from their normal penalty taker! He was in the ref's ear all match, and should have been carded for it, which would have been his second yellow, of course. That was never going to happen, and towards the end of the match the ref had several "arm around his mate" moments. Sickening!

Wildsmith was blatantly tripped while shaping up to play the ball out and nothing was given, and same again when Smith had his legs taken from under him to stop a counter attack. This time the ref hid behind playing the advantage, but didn't book the player at the next break of play. Very poor inconsistency. Similarly Dobbin being almost murdered on the touch line produced not even a verbal warning. Why he didn't actually wear a yellow and blue shirt I don't know. Twice Shrewsbury players simply gently sat down and won - no, were gifted a free kick, so a soft penalty was virtually nailed on. The was a huge shout for handball and penalty for Derby towards the end of the match which obviously wasn't given - anyone from the North Stand care to comment? Actually I have just seen a replay of both incidents, and Rooney does "make contact" (but only just) with the Shrewsbury player, but it was nothing like the all-in wrestling which is allowed in the area all match long. And there was a hug shout from the North Stand (which is normally quite well-mannered at times like this, and the players immediately appealed - both a sure sign something was amiss. It turns out all that was amiss was the referee!

In the first half we were well on top, and although Shrewsbury gave us a good game, we could have been 3 or 4 up at half time, and could possibly end up getting 4 or 5. Well that's what it felt like at the break. But as ever we came out half asleep and took ages to get going again, an all-too common a trait for Derby County. And Wildsmith should have done better with the free-kick, irrespective of him colliding with the post. At the same time Steve Cotterill had obviously kick a load of backsides, and changed his tactics because Shrewsbury came out for the second absolutely on it. Even so, despite being under the cosh for at least the first 20 minutes, we still created 4 or 5 really good opportunities, but put them all over the bar, except Dobbin's header, which was met with a stunning save. 

Actually I was expecting the usual Steve Cotterill football, which isn't very easy on the eye, but his team put up a good showing in the first half, without really threatening. But the second half saw not only a better performance, but also the Cotterill ugly stuff as well. And although Paul change the team a little, we are starting to see the consequence of a small squad in a tough, unrelenting league. WE looked quite leggy in the second half, with Barkhuisen blowing hard early on in the second half. Unless thins change in our favour, second place is out of reach, but we are currently fairly well secure in the play-offs. Let's keep the faith. And let's stay right behind our boys, and never give up.

It isn't over until the crap referee sings!

I agree with all of this. Didzy's booking was weird no complaints but why did it take so long? I assumed it was the fourth official or something. I will need to see both penalty incidents gain but no surprise of course when we end up on wrong side of both of them. 

 

PS having seen the sky highlights the peno for them was very harsh. A slight hand movement by Rooney on his back but not really a foul. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by PistoldPete

[Ram-Alf]

14 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

 

 

PS having seen the sky highlights the peno for them was very harsh. A slight hand movement by Rooney on his back but not really a foul. 

A penalty all day long for me...he pushed him into Forsyth

https://www.skysports.com/football/derby-county-vs-shrewsbury-town/report/469341

Edited March 4, 2023 by The Last Post

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, Amberram said:

We’re just not very good

We have made our bed

Now we lie in it

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Mick Brolly

[Jourdan]

Anyone who is worried by current form, think back to the magic 80.

Wycombe need 26 points, Shrewsbury need 28 points, Peterborough and Portsmouth need 29 points. It’s a minimum of two points per game across 12-13 games and 7-8 wins minimum. If any of the four are to overtake us, it will require something special.

We have to forget about the top two. I can understand the frustration because we have wobbled at a time when we needed to apply some pressure.

If we’re honest, it was never really on. Sheff Wed are breaking records and Plymouth have set the pace since very early on. We had to be absolutely relentless. That was never really likely with a squad of 21-22, the majority of whom have played 30-40 games with a possible 15 more to go.

We’re at a stage now where we need to hold our nerve. It‘s that simple. We have 12 games to go and need six wins to guarantee a play off place, possibly fewer if the chasing pack stutter.

We’re having a wobble. There’s no getting away from that. But prior to that we had won six in a row and had gone 15 games unbeaten. You have to take the rough with the smooth and realise the standard we had set was an unsustainable one. Under normal circumstances, we would have added 3-4 more to the squad and avoided any hiccups.

March going into April will probably be our toughest run of games all season. Three away games in five and Plymouth, Ipswich and Peterborough all to play. Brace yourselves because we have to be prepared for a bit more suffering.

Ultimately though I don’t think now is the time to dig out Warne or the players. Fair enough if we end up in 7th or fair enough if we ship 3 to Ipswich or Barnsley and don’t do ourselves justice in the play-offs.

But as it is, the manager and players are giving everything in difficult circumstances. I wish it was more straightforward but the end goal is still very much in our hands and the team will need our support to get over the line.

 

[Rambam]

It’s notable that Wednesday have won so many games 1-0. Ten in all. We’ve won 1-0 twice. 

[jono]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Passing accuracy so far this season: White 80.4% vs Hourihane 77.5%

Corner accuracy: Sibley 47.6% vs Hourihane 41.2%

I struggle to see how you can honestly define or score “corner accuracy” unless it’s on a head/boot that results in a shot on target

stats gone bonkers

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Chellaston Ram said:

It amazes me the amount of home games where the opposing players get cramp when they’re holding on for a result. I really hate this league.

That'll be down to our playing surface.
We've been using some cheap plastic weaves from China.  Doesn't bother our lot, as they secretly train on it every day.

Keep it under your hat though, as it's not strictly legit, and we don't want Rick finding out!  

[Carl Sagan]

4 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

you do it yourself, you do, that's why it really hurts, you do it yourself........................

If you don't know, you don't know. I, on the other hand, did find myself singing this to Thom Yorke one time in one of life's very embarrassing moments!

1 hour ago, CBRammette said:

Murphy's law- making so much of Fozzy's anniversary bound to have defensive blunders - I had expected him to score an own goal so could have been worse!!
Apart from first match after, we've been jittery since Max was injured, especially in defence. Must do everything we possibly can to keep him. 

I expected it to be a great day for Fozzy and had a fiver on him scoring! As the clock ticked on through injury time, I really thought he'd pop up for a last-minute winner. Alas no :(

 

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

Excellent refereeing. But then he got the mandatory EFL edict and his performance flipped.

I noticed from that point onwards we hardly got any free kicks near the opposition penalty area. Leahy was obviously trying to run the match without playing any football, bar taking the penalty, which the self-important little runt stole from their normal penalty taker! He was in the ref's ear all match, and should have been carded for it, which would have been his second yellow, of course. That was never going to happen, and towards the end of the match the ref had several "arm around his mate" moments. Sickening!

Wildsmith was blatantly tripped while shaping up to play the ball out and nothing was given, and same again when Smith had his legs taken from under him to stop a counter attack. This time the ref hid behind playing the advantage, but didn't book the player at the next break of play. Very poor inconsistency. Similarly Dobbin being almost murdered on the touch line produced not even a verbal warning. Why he didn't actually wear a yellow and blue shirt I don't know. Twice Shrewsbury players simply gently sat down and won - no, were gifted a free kick, so a soft penalty was virtually nailed on. The was a huge shout for handball and penalty for Derby towards the end of the match which obviously wasn't given - anyone from the North Stand care to comment? Actually I have just seen a replay of both incidents, and Rooney does "make contact" (but only just) with the Shrewsbury player, but it was nothing like the all-in wrestling which is allowed in the area all match long. And there was a hug shout from the North Stand (which is normally quite well-mannered at times like this, and the players immediately appealed - both a sure sign something was amiss. It turns out all that was amiss was the referee!

 

Dave this is the perfect summary. Last season I used to roll my eyes when people said about the EFL conspiracy with refs. But no longer. We always say "EFL's been on the phone" if they are decent first half. Today it was as you say the pals act with all their players that really rankled - in his ear the whole time, little pats on the back. Glad someone else noticed the wildsmith trip. As you say s soft penalty was inevitable and we played into their hands

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I thought it was only ten, but even so....

It was "A minimum of ten added" (as they do), but I guess the tweeter is perhaps referring to eleven being added in the end? 
Only guessing, as I didn't actually time it?  ?‍♂️

 

[jono]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Anyone who is worried by current form, think back to the magic 80.

Wycombe need 26 points, Shrewsbury need 28 points, Peterborough and Portsmouth need 29 points. It’s a minimum of two points per game across 12-13 games and 7-8 wins minimum. If any of the four are to overtake us, it will require something special.

We have to forget about the top two. I can understand the frustration because we have wobbled at a time when we needed to apply some pressure.

If we’re honest, it was never really on. Sheff Wed are breaking records and Plymouth have set the pace since very early on. We had to be absolutely relentless. That was never really likely with a squad of 21-22, the majority of whom have played 30-40 games with a possible 15 more to go.

We’re at a stage now where we need to hold our nerve. It‘s that simple. We have 12 games to go and need six wins to guarantee a play off place, possibly fewer if the chasing pack stutter.

We’re having a wobble. There’s no getting away from that. But prior to that we had won six in a row and had gone 15 games unbeaten. You have to take the rough with the smooth and realise the standard we had set was an unsustainable one. Under normal circumstances, we would have added 3-4 more to the squad and avoided any hiccups.

March going into April will probably be our toughest run of games all season. Three away games in five and Plymouth, Ipswich and Peterborough all to play. Brace yourselves because we have to be prepared for a bit more suffering.

Ultimately though I don’t think now is the time to dig out Warne or the players. Fair enough if we end up in 7th or fair enough if we ship 3 to Ipswich or Barnsley and don’t do ourselves justice in the play-offs.

But as it is, the manager and players are giving everything in difficult circumstances. I wish it was more straightforward but the end goal is still very much in our hands and the team will need our support to get over the line.

 

Great post ??

[DavesaRam]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

I agree with all of this. Didzy's booking was weird no complaints but why did it take so long? I assumed it was the fourth official or something. I will need to see both penalty incidents gain but no surprise of course when we end up on wrong side of both of them. 

 

PS having seen the sky highlights the peno for them was very harsh. A slight hand movement by Rooney on his back but not really a foul. 

Spock was there, and allegedly said “It was a push, Jim, but not as we know it”. Given the WWF moves that go unpunished all match long, the decision was very harsh indeed.

And about Didzy’s card: it took so long because having played the advantage the ref then had to wait for the ball to go out of play.

[gfs1ram]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I thought it was only ten, but even so....

A very frustrating afternoon (again!)

I'd be interested not know how long the ball was actually in play for that second half in total? I would guess 20 minutes or that's what it seemed like.

Only ourselves to blame though. Conceding that goal so early the second half gave them energy and for me it was a definite penalty. A clear push. 

Thought Shrewsbury were very poor defensively and especially in the first half we should have put the game to bed.

Plymouth is going to be a toughie !!

 

[jono]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

First half, they played a really narrow 352, and that left our fullbacks completely free to attack.  They were an easy out-ball for us when playing out from the back, and caused them all sorts of problems (the first goal being an obvious example, with major contributions from both of them).  As well as we played (and we did play very well), it was at least in part because they allowed us to.

Second half, they switched to a 343 and put their 2 wingers right on our fullbacks and completely stifled them.  At no stage did our bench react to that change and ultimately that’s what’s cost us today.  They pressed us into a mistake for the first goal, then our overall tiredness and fragile confidence started rearing it’s head.  We needed to change something very quickly in the second half, as it was obvious what was happening. It didn’t have to be a sub, it could have been a tweak to the team shape or style of play or something. But we did nothing until we made a couple of basically like-for-like subs after 70 odd minutes that didn’t really change anything anyway.  

I know some people don’t want to hear it, but to me that match epitomises Paul Warne’s management. He can get a group of players fit and working hard for each other, but sometimes that’s not enough on it’s own.  You can’t win every game just by running around more than the other team.  Sometimes you need to be smarter than they are.  And I worry that the higher you go up the leagues, the more of those games there are. 

 

I think you make a good point, and today Shrews ran around as much as we did. I still think we had better players, played better football but sometimes Lady Luck isn’t with you and you need to be savvy - you can never forget the other 11 on the pitch won’t always roll over when we expect it 

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

I agree with all of this. Didzy's booking was weird no complaints but why did it take so long? I assumed it was the fourth official or something. I will need to see both penalty incidents gain but no surprise of course when we end up on wrong side of both of them. 

Think the ref may have forgotten about Didzie’s yellow and needed to be reminded. 

No complaints about the ‘penalty incidents’. Not enough in the push against Dobbin. And his touch was heavy, his run predictable. Don’t think even he complained. Rooney’s was a clear foul. We should stop whingeing about this stuff 

[HorsforthRam]

It’s not an EFL conspiracy. It’s not. It’s not. Grow up. It’s the midfield. When we lose the midfield, we’re on the back foot. They packed the midfield and we didn’t respond.  Lose a winger and gain control of the middle ffs. 

[Rich84]

3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

First half, they played a really narrow 352, and that left our fullbacks completely free to attack.  They were an easy out-ball for us when playing out from the back, and caused them all sorts of problems (the first goal being an obvious example, with major contributions from both of them).  As well as we played (and we did play very well), it was at least in part because they allowed us to.

Second half, they switched to a 343 and put their 2 wingers right on our fullbacks and completely stifled them.  At no stage did our bench react to that change and ultimately that’s what’s cost us today.  They pressed us into a mistake for the first goal, then our overall tiredness and fragile confidence started rearing it’s head.  We needed to change something very quickly in the second half, as it was obvious what was happening. It didn’t have to be a sub, it could have been a tweak to the team shape or style of play or something. But we did nothing until we made a couple of basically like-for-like subs after 70 odd minutes that didn’t really change anything anyway.  

I know some people don’t want to hear it, but to me that match epitomises Paul Warne’s management. He can get a group of players fit and working hard for each other, but sometimes that’s not enough on it’s own.  You can’t win every game just by running around more than the other team.  Sometimes you need to be smarter than they are.  And I worry that the higher you go up the leagues, the more of those games there are. 

 

This for me, could clearly see they changed at half time and we didn't react, it also became apparent that they targeted our left side as weak, Dobbin went completely missing and left Roberts exposed, it needed changes before they got the penalty, but recently Warne seems to leave his subs too late and react rather than act.

For me, Dobbin off for NML so Barkhauzen could go on the left and provide experienced support for Roberts. As mentioned by others, the small squad doesn't help and we run out of steam, we can use 5 subs, be proactive and use the squad, we have a strong bench but seem reluctant to use it.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Still don’t think Warne has worked out what his best team is, what each players best position is, or what formation to play.  Our recent form is troubling, and the Manager is not convincing me he can walk his talk.

He's walked the walk in each of his last three seasons in this League. Does the view from Littlehampton indicate that  has taken too much out of him and this time he is Warne out?

Edited March 5, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Jourdan]

7 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Still don’t think Warne has worked out what his best team is, what each players best position is, or what formation to play.  Our recent form is troubling, and the Manager is not convincing me he can walk his talk.

Over the last 12 league games, we have won 8, drawn 2 and lost 2. Yes, 8 points in our last 6 is probably 4-6 points worse than many expected, but hardly troubling.

I think bar probably two positions - left back and left winger - the team is largely set in stone. Bird’s injury has obviously unsettled things mind you. Similarly, we play a version of 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 for the majority of games.

The most games we have gone without a win this season is three and that’s not recent, so I don’t see great cause for concern yet.

Criticism like this seems premature. If we lose v Plymouth and Oxford and don’t beat Fleetwood and put our spot in the top six in danger, then fair enough. It’s a sustained poor run of form and Warne will have to answer for that.

But as it is we’ve lost four times in 25 league games and yet the manager is not convincing you? I wonder if he’s simply fighting a losing battle.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Think the ref may have forgotten about Didzie’s yellow and needed to be reminded. 

No complaints about the ‘penalty incidents’. Not enough in the push against Dobbin. And his touch was heavy, his run predictable. Don’t think even he complained. Rooney’s was a clear foul. We should stop whingeing about this stuff 

You're free to do what you want. If others want to point out how soft that penalty was compared to some of the many we haven't received this season from similar incidents, or how the referee seemed to apply a different approach to penalising each side after half-time, it's as valid as any other aspect of the post-match discussion.

It's ironic though that you say Rooney's push was a "clear foul" but the one on Dobbin wasn't : Dobbin was at least in possession of the ball - the Shrews player was 15 ft under it with no chance of playing it - exaggerating the push was his only option.