Matchday Thread - Shrewsbury Town v Derby County (16/08 19:45)

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Just in. Zero surprise to see we had a lot of possession but it ended with Derby 0 and, reading the match thread, we created very little indeed. 

For me Rosenior has used up all the goodwill. We need to see he realizes he's got team selection and tactics wrong and persisting with dreary defensive possession football in front of the opposition is not the way to win football matches in this league. So very disappointed. So very unsurprised. His midfield is totally wrong, completely negative and lacking in penetration and arracking ideas. Very, very easy for our opponents. 

I am catching up too..but I think the subs used were more positive today.. McGoldrick on for Smith after 53 min. But still no goals. Can't entirely blame Rosenior for that, but I think the starting midfield is too samey for me not enough movement. Oh and we need a right back. We can solve both problems at a stroke. Bring in a proper right back and put Knight in midfield.  

[Rambalin]

7pts from 4 games best start since 2014 under McClaren  so not bad with new side put together. Yes it could be better give it a bit longer before moaning people. 

[Ram-Alf]

7 hours ago, LazloW said:

Do you think? I think play offs would be a bonus this season. We have to stop the rot and - while the quality of players we’ve signed have perhaps changed my expectations a bit- I think it would still be terribly harsh to be judging LR by Christmas if we aren’t challenging for promotion.

A quote ish from LR "we should finish in the top 6 at least" the rot or whatever that means to be stopped ?‍♀️was left floating in other teams as they left that rotten ship called DCFC even the manager seemed to have had enough, As we all know or had better know this is a brand new squad, Shining around the edges and not a bit of rot to be seen.

Now the problem is it would appear that those free agents we have signed have come with some pedigree and now it's a promotion squad, All it is is a promotion looking squad, LR will today sit down with his coaches and watch the game from last night, They'll look freeze the game and analyse, LR will then move this onto the players for the Fleetwood game and ask/tell this is what we need to do.

One last thing to other's on here, Fulham 2 Liverpool 2...I bet all those scousers said they should be beating teams like Fulham, The funny thing is...no one told Fulham they should roll over 

[Warwick Ram]

6 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

I just don't want to see more boring possession football like we had under Cocu. 

So do you think Man City are boring? They are play a possession based football but have developed that cutting edge.

[Warwick Ram]

7 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Couldnt agree more

ill back rosenior and the lads .. goes without saying but for me its cocu ball and it doesnt work in england 

Before anyone starts its not pep football as that involves a hard high press. 

its cocu ball, frank de boer ball and the best most very recent example of it eric ten haag ball… and we all know how thats going.

The dutch philosophy of football thats exercised by the big two over there in a league thats basically scotland doesnt carry over here. 

i get why we’re doing it in that if we want to be attractive to other clubs to loan us players then if we’re playing good football then we have more chance of landing them.

and if we can nurture

good Young player who can play good football theyll carry a greater sell on 

but that doesnt make it effective football.

i hope we succeed with it more than anything, nothing would give me greater pride and pleasure and i applaude liam for trying and if we do ill more than happily say im wrong. 

i just dont think it works in england and believe the evidence is overhwelming

 

So do you think Man City are boring? They are play a possession based football but have developed that cutting edge.
Guardiola’s fantastic brand of football is actually one developed by John Cruyff in Holland (Total Football) and this is what too Dutch coaches try to replicate.

[BramcoteRam84]

7 hours ago, alram said:

Great post bramcote, we have to force mistakes and you don’t do that by keeping meaningless position. 

 

to win games you have to take risks and be brave.

Braver on the ball and off the ball making the right runs, potentially play Sibley instead of Smith from the start in games like that. 

It’s early days though there have been very good signs. I don’t think the intention is meaningless possession it just didn’t quite work last night, Charlton while I didn’t go or see highlights from reading reports we created more chances than we have done in an away game for some time.

Its a solid start, the time to judge and be critical isn’t now but in other 10 games. But I remain convinced Liam will get this right. I think he’s clear in what he wants do and the players no exactly what he wants from them. That’s good clear leadership. 

[Jayram]

9 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Precisely the point I making.

Unless we're expecting said striker to score a goal with every chance they're presented with which is just cloud cuckoo land.

We weren't adventurous enough and didn't want to win the game that badly so the draw is what we deserved and we got. 

Funny how reading comments already saying we should be beating teams like Shrewsbury ? we've only been in this league for 5 minutes and already we've built up a divine right sense of entitlement.

Shrewsbury were utter garbage though so we should really be beating sides like that if we want to progress in this league, even at this early stage of the season.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Jayram

[Jayram]

7 hours ago, Crewton said:

I recall Steve McClaren's swashbuckling teams of 2013-15 and 16/17 struggling to break down teams who sat in and played on the break/direct/long ball etc, and losing a number of games 1-0. People used to moan about "no Plan B" at a time when we were playing some of the best football at Derby since the Jim Smith peak years. We couldn't solve the problem then, and now after 4 games and working under an EFL business plan, folk (not on here) are screaming for the head of a manager 4 games into his career because he hasn't solved it yet while he's trying to rebuild the playing side of the club. And we're 7th. I f'kin' give up with some of our fans.

 

No one as far as I can see is screaming for LR’s head, but the play it safe away from home template has to change. We have thrown away 5 points in our 2 away games because they were both very winnable and yet we let them slip away. The possession based game at this level isn’t going to work - teams will do exactly what Shrewsbury did and just move as a unit to frustrate us. LR has to be flexible in his tactics and work out a way of switching the play or we are in for a season of dull 0-0’s or 1-0’s (wins and losses). Early days but I worry that LR has his tactical philosophy set in stone regardless of the opposition. 
However, isn’t it nice to be moaning about football things rather than finances and administrators? COYR!

[Chester40]

38 minutes ago, Warwick Ram said:

So do you think Man City are boring? They are play a possession based football but have developed that cutting edge.
Guardiola’s fantastic brand of football is actually one developed by John Cruyff in Holland (Total Football) and this is what too Dutch coaches try to replicate.

Well we aren't City are we! But I actually think they can be slightly dull at times compared to Liverpool, Spurs or Leeds etc who move the ball more quickly.

[IlsonDerby]

25 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Shrewsbury were utter garbage though so we should really be beating sides like that if we want to progress in this league, even at this early stage of the season.

Shrews beat Wycombe last match, who are always up and around the play offs lately in this league. 

[IlsonDerby]

13 minutes ago, Jayram said:

No one as far as I can see is screaming for LR’s head, but the play it safe away from home template has to change. We have thrown away 5 points in our 2 away games because they were both very winnable and yet we let them slip away. The possession based game at this level isn’t going to work - teams will do exactly what Shrewsbury did and just move as a unit to frustrate us. LR has to be flexible in his tactics and work out a way of switching the play or we are in for a season of dull 0-0’s or 1-0’s (wins and losses). Early days but I worry that LR has his tactical philosophy set in stone regardless of the opposition. 
However, isn’t it nice to be moaning about football things rather than finances and administrators? COYR!

This isn’t accurate. Firstly we battered Charlton and got sucker punched. That’s part of football. We’ll do that to others. 

Secondly you’re talking as if there’s only one team in a match. We’ve already seen that 80% of sides in this league are going to be playing us like it’s a cup match. They were wasting time from the off last night - I don’t begrudge them for it but it’s a lot harder to break down teams who’d snap your hands off for a point than those who have come with a plan to win the match. 
 

We’re still a fortnight behind other teams in terms of prep for obvious reasons. If we’re still all possession no bite by end of September then I’d share some of your worries but right now a team thrown together without a proper full pre season have 7 points from 4 matches and have created enough chances to win the 2 matches they didn’t. 

[Crewton]

7 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

I get that there are no easy games but if we really went for it tonight instead of passing the ball about conservatively, we would have seen these off with ease

"Would have" doing allot of work here. 

However we play, we'll struggle to win games if we can't put the ball in the net. As much as we need to evolve our tactics and options, we need to build players confidence in front of goal. We've had enough good chances to have won all 4 games, but rusty finishing has meant we've only scored 3 goals, one an OG. That's where the greatest improvement needs to come. 

I can guarantee that, however we play, some teams will play exactly how Shrewsbury did last night and, when they are doing it in as disciplined a way as they were, we're bound to have more frustrating nights. And the mantra of "play through them" will flounder just as often as the current tactics will unless we take our chances. 

[IlsonDerby]

Sunderland fans, Wednesday fans, Ipswich fans, Portsmouth fans. 
 

They all warned us this is what it would be like. Did some of us arrogantly think a club on the verge of dying wouldn’t suffer the same challenges that other big clubs suffer when we came down? 
 

It is frustrating when Smith is the only midfielder who seems to look pass the ball forwards at every opportunity however we can’t see what the players can see and Shrews were so well disciplined and organised that we found it tough. 

[nottingram]

Didn’t watch the game but who needs to with a match thread as entertaining as this?

Seems a pretty hilarious over reaction to a game away against a reasonable L1 side that, again, it appears we had some decent ish chances and should have won despite still being undercooked fitness wise.

[Jimbo Ram]

35 minutes ago, Jayram said:

No one as far as I can see is screaming for LR’s head, but the play it safe away from home template has to change. We have thrown away 5 points in our 2 away games because they were both very winnable and yet we let them slip away. The possession based game at this level isn’t going to work - teams will do exactly what Shrewsbury did and just move as a unit to frustrate us. LR has to be flexible in his tactics and work out a way of switching the play or we are in for a season of dull 0-0’s or 1-0’s (wins and losses). Early days but I worry that LR has his tactical philosophy set in stone regardless of the opposition. 
However, isn’t it nice to be moaning about football things rather than finances and administrators? COYR!

It's ok saying we should have won games but we could also have lost all of the games too, very fine margins, especially the Oxford and Barnsley games.....

[Wistaston Ram]

48 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Shrewsbury were utter garbage though so we should really be beating sides like that if we want to progress in this league, even at this early stage of the season.

They certainly were not garbage. Well organised, played as a team and defended for their lives. Yes, most of their players do not individually match up to our team, but they make the most of their limited resources and in my opinion deserved their point.

[Loughborough Ram]

It's inconceivable to imagine that we will continue to struggle to score goals with Collins, Barkhuizen, Mendez-Laing, McGoldrick, Sibley and Dobbin as options especially if you add the set piece quality of Hourihane. And as we all know the best way to combat teams that park the bus is to score first.

One defeat from our first 5 competitive games, 1 loss in 3 away from home, 7 points from 4 league games, close to 2 points per game which over a season gives you 92 points and only 3 goals conceded. Last night was frustrating but lets be honest, there's plenty to be positive about if youre that way inclined.

[HorsforthRam]

We did “batter” Charlton and to an extent Shrewsbury. The two things in common at those times are that both those teams let us have the ball, didn’t press. Some of our slow passes still reached our players, mis-control was forgiven as opposing players sit off. However, in both games, second half increases in tempo and tenacity by the opposition have resulted in us not being able to get out of our own tempo embedded the first half. 
 

I can understand the slow build up and keep ball in our half but the speed needs to significantly improve once in the the last third. We have to have a proper go in the first half. 

[Jimbo Ram]

21 minutes ago, Wistaston Ram said:

They certainly were not garbage. Well organised, played as a team and defended for their lives. Yes, most of their players do not individually match up to our team, but they make the most of their limited resources and in my opinion deserved their point.

It was one of those games where despite all of our possession I could see them nicking one the longer it went on, from a corner or set piece. Agree, they were not garbage and we will need to come up with a plan of how to break sides like that down.

[Papahet]

We have had plenty of chances to score against Charlton and again last night. I'm not buying this "parking the bus" crap.

Besides Collins (whose struggled since leaving Luton..) - I don't think any of those players are known goal scorers , it's no wonder we are struggling for them.

 

We need another option. Whether it's Cannon from Everton or more experience with goals in the locker.

If Roofe is a target, get him ffs

Edited August 17, 2022 by Papahet