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Boycie

By Boycie
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maxjam
maxjam

So... I went to the shop shortly after the announcement to grab some 'celebration juice' for tonight and met a guy in a Derby shirt holding a 4 pack of Bud and asked him if he was celebrating as

Cam the Ram
Cam the Ram
angieram
angieram

I haven't got time to mop up sexist comments,  I am too busy making cups of tea for the other mods! 

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duncanjwitham

duncanjwitham

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, davenportram said:

If we manage to get enough to stay up it would be applied ti this seasons total to relegate us, 

 

It can and has been done before. Any sanction made after the fourth Thursday in March can be applied to that season if it would mean relegation, if relegation is already assured it gets applied to the following season

The issue is that the sanction is tied into actually exiting admin - we won’t know if we’re going to get a sanction until a deal is agreed, signed off with the creditors and we actually exit admin.  It’s very unlikely that that is done and dusted before the end of the season. And if it gets beyond that, there’s no way the EFL apply the deduction to a season that’s already finished.  If we’re already down, it’s defeating the entire objective of the sanction, and if we stay up, we’re edging into dual-fixture list nonsense again.

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davenportram

davenportram

Posted
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20 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The issue is that the sanction is tied into actually exiting admin - we won’t know if we’re going to get a sanction until a deal is agreed, signed off with the creditors and we actually exit admin.  It’s very unlikely that that is done and dusted before the end of the season. And if it gets beyond that, there’s no way the EFL apply the deduction to a season that’s already finished.  If we’re already down, it’s defeating the entire objective of the sanction, and if we stay up, we’re edging into dual-fixture list nonsense again.

I think they’ll do the dual fixture stuff again. If we are already down then the deduction would be applied next year anyway. 

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PistoldPete

PistoldPete

Posted
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25 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The issue is that the sanction is tied into actually exiting admin - we won’t know if we’re going to get a sanction until a deal is agreed, signed off with the creditors and we actually exit admin.  It’s very unlikely that that is done and dusted before the end of the season. And if it gets beyond that, there’s no way the EFL apply the deduction to a season that’s already finished.  If we’re already down, it’s defeating the entire objective of the sanction, and if we stay up, we’re edging into dual-fixture list nonsense again.

If we stay up then Kirchner should up his offer and we avod the 15 points deduction anyway.

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Indy

Indy

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9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

If we stay up then Kirchner should up his offer and we avod the 15 points deduction anyway.

Came here to say the same. If by some miracle we get the required points, CK would be a fool to withhold the difference and get a League One club instead of a Championship one. 

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duncanjwitham

duncanjwitham

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

Came here to say the same. If by some miracle we get the required points, CK would be a fool to withhold the difference and get a League One club instead of a Championship one. 

You could maybe argue it the other way too.  If we do get a deduction, it’s almost certainly going to be next season anyway, not this one.  I think there’s basically zero chance we exit admin before the end of this season, and zero chance the EFL screw around with deductions for this season after it’s already over.

With that in mind, -15 in League 1 probably means an extra season at that level, before we can realistically challenge for promotion back to the Championship, costing us who knows what in lost TV money, attendances etc. it might be worth paying the extra to avoid that. But we can probably swallow -15 in the championship and get away with it - next season is going to be a rebuild anyway, so it’s probably not going to cost us that much.

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Tyler Durden

Tyler Durden

Posted
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8 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

You could maybe argue it the other way too.  If we do get a deduction, it’s almost certainly going to be next season anyway, not this one.  I think there’s basically zero chance we exit admin before the end of this season, and zero chance the EFL screw around with deductions for this season after it’s already over.

With that in mind, -15 in League 1 probably means an extra season at that level, before we can realistically challenge for promotion back to the Championship, costing us who knows what in lost TV money, attendances etc. it might be worth paying the extra to avoid that. But we can probably swallow -15 in the championship and get away with it - next season is going to be a rebuild anyway, so it’s probably not going to cost us that much.

Maybe Kirchner has already accepted that we'll spend at least one season in League 1 meaning there's no point in him forking out millions extra to avoid a 15 point deduction.  

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SBW

SBW

Posted
Posted

I think another factor is does CK have the readies to pay what is required to avoid the -15? I'm sure his business has plenty of value, but is he someone who has the cash to go out and spend that much?  From the start he talked about a commitment over a couple of years in terms of his offer.  

 

Maybe the change of mindset from Q in terms of being willing to accept offers that will see another deduction are what allowed him to re-enter the fray? 

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Jimbo Ram

Jimbo Ram

Posted
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1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Maybe Kirchner has already accepted that we'll spend at least one season in League 1 meaning there's no point in him forking out millions extra to avoid a 15 point deduction.  

But we could face a relegation fight if we start with a limited squad on -15 points ?

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Comrade 86

Comrade 86

Posted
Posted

Some folk appear to have forgotten, or disregarded the fact that Kirschner bid £50 million for the club back in October and that he's also proven liquidity in excess of £60 million. That's not investments, or notional values associated to his stake in Slync.io, that's hard cash, sloshing about in his bank account. If there's a reason he's back at the table, it's because his new (most likely significantly reduced) bid, remains by some way the highest formal offer received.

Let's focus on the facts for a moment; CK made an early bid and when told it was not enough, immediately upped his offer. In spite of this, Quantuma favoured other 'unknown parties' and told Kirschner he would not be named preferred bidder. He understandably immediately withdrew issuing a few choice broadsides to Q and MM in the process. To this day, we have absolutely no knowledge of what those 'better offers' entailed or even who made them. We don't even know if any credible and formal bids other than that made by the Binnies have even been submitted. What we do know though, is that despite his PR machine working 24 hours to make sure that we all know he remains 'extremely interested', is that Ashley has yet to submit any formal offer at all. Perhaps he didn't get the deadline memos?

What we also know as a fact is that the admins horribly misread the room when they discounted CK in favour of offers that have apparently never materialised, as clearly illustrated by this rather ignominious U-turn. Frankly, I'd sooner entrust the immediate future of the club to Kirschner than to other anonymous 'interested parties' and certainly more than to Quantuma.

 

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i-Ram

i-Ram

Posted
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On 08/04/2022 at 23:39, kevinhectoring said:

@i-Ramdid you miss this? Instead of sarky emojis and personal abuse it’d be good to know your views on the substance 

Sorry Kevin I have been taking some time out to see if I could find a nicer me, and get away from the general negativity of this thread. You ask:

1) Do you think MSD could appoint admins at 202 tomorrow and arrange the grant of a 99 year lease of PP to the club? Interested in your thoughts.   
2) It’s been suggested (recently) that MM has a £20m deposit collateralising a PG of £20m of the MSD debt, which complicates things.  Quite possible that - in light of this - Q should have insisted that 202 was initially placed into administration. 

I think if MSD were concerned about their debt they would have appointed an administrative receiver by now. As basically a short term lender, I would personally think if they ever did appoint an AR at 202 it would be to sell the stadium, rather than to grant long leases to anyone. They will want out imho.

You can tie yourself up in knots speculating what MM’s cross security to MSD might be, but Twitter is not a good place to find facts. My understanding is that Stephen Pearce, on behalf of the club (and its group of Companies) appointed Q. Neither 202 or 204 are part of the footballing group - they are arms length companies. Therefore Q had no place to insist 202 be put into administration too. Only an officer of 202/204 could do that, or a creditor such as MSD. Neither 202 or 204 are insolvent as far as I am aware.

There we go. Going to stay out of this thread again now for a while, until there is more factual information available as to CK’s proposals, and in particular the EFLs and HMRCs responses to them.

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