Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[May Contain Nuts]

Any bets on @alrambeing Marples in disguise?

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Any bets on @alrambeing Marples in disguise?

1/4

[alram]

3 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

You could always try another thread mate. TBH, I'd wager a few are 'sick to death' of you posting the same thing dozens of times a day too.

 

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

I was thinking more along the lines of another forum rather than another thread to be honest - I haven’t got many folk on ignore, but we have a top candidate here….

you may well give me personal abuse i don't really care, at the end of the day it's my opinion and i care deeply about Derby county. Everything i say is from my heart and I apologise if it rubs people up the wrong way but i simply have to get it off my chest. i feel that too many have tribal attitudes and are defending the undefendable, fans aren't stupid - for me we have been taken for idiots for too long now

 

again apologies if it seems i am being out of order

[Tyler Durden]

3 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Worth mentioning all of the George chip shops went into Administration the other day - must be lots of pie salespeople owed money due to the pandemic 

My George at Asda West Bridgford doesn't have a chip shop.

Feel cheated now.

[Comrade 86]

Just now, alram said:

 

you may well give me personal abuse i don't really care, at the end of the day it's my opinion and i care deeply about Derby county. Everything i say is from my heart and I apologise if it rubs people up the wrong way but i simply have to get it off my chest. i feel that too many have tribal attitudes and are defending the undefendable, fans aren't stupid - for me we have been taken for idiots for too long now

 

again apologies if it seems i am being out of order

Personal abuse? Yeah ok mate ?

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, alram said:

 

you may well give me personal abuse i don't really care, at the end of the day it's my opinion and i care deeply about Derby county. Everything i say is from my heart and I apologise if it rubs people up the wrong way but i simply have to get it off my chest. i feel that too many have tribal attitudes and are defending the undefendable, fans aren't stupid - for me we have been taken for idiots for too long now

 

again apologies if it seems i am being out of order

You have to be really special to get personal abuse....I'd call this common or garden generic abuse ?

[Chester40]

16 minutes ago, alram said:

i feel that too many have tribal attitudes and are defending the undefendable, fans aren't stupid - for me we have been taken for idiots for too long now

 

again apologies if it seems i am being out of order

Not out of order....but your grammar is undefendable ?

[Foreveram]

3 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Not out of order....but your grammar is undefendable ?

Why what’s she done 

[ram59]

There are 2 facts, MM is partly responsible for us going into administration and Covid is also partly responsible for us going into administration. Take away either contribution and we wouldn't be in administration, at this moment in time. MM's contribution is irrelevant when considering the appeal on the grounds of force majeure.

People agreeing with the administrators decision to appeal on grounds of force majeure aren't necessarily defending MM.

[Rampage]

If we get taken over by the right people with a lot of money then the longer-term future looks good to me.

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, ram59 said:

There are 2 facts, MM is partly responsible for us going into administration and Covid is also partly responsible for us going into administration. Take away either contribution and we wouldn't be in administration, at this moment in time. MM's contribution is irrelevant when considering the appeal on the grounds of force majeure.

People agreeing with the administrators decision to appeal on grounds of force majeure aren't necessarily defending MM.

I agree with this up to a point. Mel's historic overspending in 2018 or whenever are irrelevant. Yes its added to our debts .. to Mel Morris.But these are soft loans that he will write off, so not directly relevant to the club going into adminsitration.

It is the hit to revenues since March 2020 that has created the unmanageable debt.. debts to HMRC and to MSD. 

Mels decision to call in the administrators will be scrutinised by the appeal panel. So MM's contribution is not irrelevant in that sense. But his past spending wil not be relevant provided the admin team can show that spending was coming down significantly since 2017-18. I believe they will show just that, we know we have a very threadbare squad now... it's starting to show on the pitch after all.   

     

[G STAR RAM]

20 hours ago, alram said:

Yes I am fine with that, but my general point is even a successful appeal wont make a jot of difference to the outcome of this season. The money used on it could have saved jobs

The appeal has supposedly cost £300,000 (one off fee), relegation will supposedly cost us £6,000,000 per annum. 

Which scenario do you think could save the most jobs?

[kevinhectoring]

20 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Look there is an appeal. The appeal will then publish its findings. They may find Mel had pots of money and could easily have avoided administration . Or they may not.

Let’s wait and see shall we?

Really, really hoping the appeal is never heard, that the admins do a deal with the EFL on everything in advance. Otherwise it threatens the plan to conclude a sale in Dec/early Jan 

[Tamworthram]

21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The appeal has supposedly cost £300,000 (one off fee), relegation will supposedly cost us £6,000,000 per annum. 

Which scenario do you think could save the most jobs?

Firstly, let me state, that I am pleased we have appealed. However, against my better judgment in partial defence of @alram it’s not a simple choice of one or the other. Spending £300,000 on the appeal doesn’t automatically avoid the losses incurred as a result of relegation. We may lose the appeal or win it and still get relegated. There is therefore a third scenario costing the club c£6,300,000.
 

If it’s a forlorn hope (none of us have seen the actual case submitted) then the £300,000 would have been better spent on protecting jobs (even if only for the rest of this season) but the administrators are not fools and, I assume, have not just appealed to appease the fans. They must believe it’s an appeal worth making. A frivolous appeal costing £300,000 would hardly be acting in the best interests of creditors or staff. This is the point Alram is failing or refusing to accept.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Tamworthram

[G STAR RAM]

29 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Firstly, let me state, that I am pleased we have appealed. However, against my better judgment in partial defence of @alram it’s not a simple choice of one or the other. Spending £300,000 on the appeal doesn’t automatically avoid the losses incurred as a result of relegation. We may lose the appeal or win it and still get relegated. There is therefore a third scenario costing the club c£6,300,000.
 

If it’s a forlorn hope (none of us have seen the actual case submitted) then the £300,000 would have been better spent on protecting jobs (even if only for the rest of this season) but the administrators are not fools and, I assume, have not just appealed to appease the fans. They must believe it’s an appeal worth making. A frivolous appeal costing £300,000 would hardly be acting in the best interests of creditors or staff. This is the point Alram is failing or refusing to accept.

The administrators job is purely to achieve the best outcome for the creditors, nothing more nothing less. 

They will have had to weigh up whether saving a few admin jobs or, if feasible, maintaining our position in The Championship is going to be the best outcome for the creditors.

One outcome could give us £6m extra income, one saves us £300k.

It would be a dereliction of duty not to try and get the points deduction overturned if there is any chance of it happening.

 

 

[Albert]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The administrators job is purely to achieve the best outcome for the creditors, nothing more nothing less. 

They will have had to weigh up whether saving a few admin jobs or, if feasible, maintaining our position in The Championship is going to be the best outcome for the creditors.

One outcome could give us £6m extra income, one saves us £300k.

It would be a dereliction of duty not to try and get the points deduction overturned if there is any chance of it happening.

 

 

In a sense, just going by those numbers, even if there's a 1/20 chance of the appeal being successful, and those gained points being what gives us safety, the appeal has an expected payoff of £0. Realistically, the chances of success are likely far more than that, making it a worthwhile venture in that sense. 

[Tamworthram]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The administrators job is purely to achieve the best outcome for the creditors, nothing more nothing less. 

They will have had to weigh up whether saving a few admin jobs or, if feasible, maintaining our position in The Championship is going to be the best outcome for the creditors.

One outcome could give us £6m extra income, one saves us £300k.

It would be a dereliction of duty not to try and get the points deduction overturned if there is any chance of it happening.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you in the sense that making an appeal is the right thing to do (I trust the administrators to know what they're doing) so, don't really want to get into an argument but, it isn't quite as black and white as as one outcome gives us £6m whilst the other saves us £300k. As I say, there is a third outcome whereby we spend £300k and still lose the appeal.

With regard to jobs, point taken, that is not really the administrators responsibility. However, either they found a spare £300k (that could have been spent on other things that helps keep the club afloat) or they borrowed it (thus increasing creditors). Either way, spending that on an appeal that was doomed from the start, wouldn't be in the best interest of the creditors.

It would have been a dereliction of duty to either:

a) fail to try and get the points deduction overturned if there is a reasonable to good chance of success or

b) fritter away another £300k on an appeal that has no chance of success 

I think you, me and most other people believe in (a) whereas @alram and some others are in the (b) camp.

[Tamworthram]

11 hours ago, ram59 said:

There are 2 facts, MM is partly responsible for us going into administration and Covid is also partly responsible for us going into administration. Take away either contribution and we wouldn't be in administration, at this moment in time. MM's contribution is irrelevant when considering the appeal on the grounds of force majeure.

People agreeing with the administrators decision to appeal on grounds of force majeure aren't necessarily defending MM.

Simply put and 100% nail on head.

[Reggie Greenwood]

16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I'm not disagreeing with you in the sense that making an appeal is the right thing to do (I trust the administrators to know what they're doing) so, don't really want to get into an argument but, it isn't quite as black and white as as one outcome gives us £6m whilst the other saves us £300k. As I say, there is a third outcome whereby we spend £300k and still lose the appeal.

With regard to jobs, point taken, that is not really the administrators responsibility. However, either they found a spare £300k (that could have been spent on other things that helps keep the club afloat) or they borrowed it (thus increasing creditors). Either way, spending that on an appeal that was doomed from the start, wouldn't be in the best interest of the creditors.

It would have been a dereliction of duty to either:

a) fail to try and get the points deduction overturned if there is a reasonable to good chance of success or

b) fritter away another £300k on an appeal that has no chance of success 

I think you, me and most other people believe in (a) whereas @alram and some others are in the (b) camp.

I understood that the 300k has been stumped up by an outsider maybe one of the bidders ? 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

Really, really hoping the appeal is never heard, that the admins do a deal with the EFL on everything in advance. Otherwise it threatens the plan to conclude a sale in Dec/early Jan 

The appeal is heard this coming week.  It will not affect January plans at all compared with coming to an agreement with the EFL