Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, Gaspode said:

You seem oblivious to the financial predicatment that the majority of clubs outside the PL find themselves in....we're far from alone in running at a significant loss every season - but as was made plain in the statement released when we went into admin, the loss of income hit us harder because: a) we have a higher cost base than the majority of the Championship (partly/mainly our choice, but still a fact); and b) we (alone inthe Championship) were prevented from accessing the Covid assistance loan (due to an EFL rule) - and suggesting that we should have stuffed a load of money down the back of the sofa 'just in case' is naive in the extreme......

I didn't suggest that and more importantly why if someone disagrees with your point of view are they therefore extremely naïve?

I can only give you my experiences of conducting FMEAs in very large businesses to avoid or mitigate EXACTLY the predicament we have found ourselves in. 

[Tamworthram]

19 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Not really at all as the panel could argue what are "normal" operating circumstances, in this example its assumed that the norm is to tightrope across a canyon. 

If all other clubs are tightroping across the same canyon then absolutely but then the panel could quite reasonably say well why were we the only club to go into administration bringing into question that the norm for other clubs was to tightrope a few feet off the ground mitigating the potential gust of wind but we did nothing to help the situation ourselves. 

But a tightrope walker knows in advance that they should consider mitigating against falling off due to a gust of wind as it is a well known and real risk. 

Yes, Mel was taking risks that other club owners perhaps weren't but, there is no way he could have foreseen the catastrophic effect of the pandemic. It's obviously up to the administrator to satisfy the independent panel that, had Covid not occurred, steps would/could have been taken to avoid administration.

[Comrade 86]

[IslandExile]

We should ask for all points deductions to be done and dusted this season.

[jono]

7 hours ago, alram said:

We purchased Jozwiak under Covid, our loses were also 3m per month prior to covid. 

it is simply not to blame.

If you had an ounce of intellect you’d have understood I was using figures to illustrate a point. You know no more than anyone else in the general public about the true figures but they don’t matter in terms of pounds shillings and pence - it is the relative difference before and after Covid. In rough figures income halved, costs remained the same and assets were devalued by 30/50% ….  entirely due to Covid

The point is COVID had a vast impact on Derby County, Mel Morris, The football industry …Oh ..and the whole world by the way. If you can’t see that then you really are lacking in something. 
 

[Hordh]

24 minutes ago, jono said:

If you had an ounce of intellect you’d have understood I was using figures to illustrate a point. You know no more than anyone else in the general public about the true figures but they don’t matter in terms of pounds shillings and pence - it is the relative difference before and after Covid. In rough figures income halved, costs remained the same and assets were devalued by 30/50% ….  entirely due to Covid

The point is COVID had a vast impact on Derby County, Mel Morris, The football industry …Oh ..and the whole world by the way. If you can’t see that then you really are lacking in something. 
 

Yes all of football has been impacted, but due MM's bad handling of the finances it's only Derby that have gone into admin. 

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, Hordh said:

Yes all of football has been impacted, but due MM's bad handling of the finances it's only Derby that have gone into admin. 

Currently 

[ossieram]

I seriously think the EFL are missing a trick when picking members of the panel used to decide our fate on this. 

They could have picked some of our forum members and been guaranteed the result they desire. 

[MuespachRam]

5 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

We missed getting promotion in 2019 by the narrowest of margins. He decided to sell the club as his money was running out but in January 2020 with a sale agreed EFL tried to hit Derby with some trumped up charges. the buyer then pulled out. 
 

and then in March 2020 something else happened , oh I seem to have forgotten what that was It I seem to remember it was on the news but now like you it has slipped my mind completely. 

Only happens in Derby..? 

[jono]

6 hours ago, Hordh said:

Yes all of football has been impacted, but due MM's bad handling of the finances it's only Derby that have gone into admin. 

And under normal circumstances, without Covid they might not have done. … A buyer might have been found, we might have sold players at higher prices. You also don’t know the financial status of other clubs so only Derby …. So far.

[LazloW]

While I might have my doubts about whether or not we’re going to win the appeal, I find it quite odd and interesting how many of our own fans on here are actively arguing that either we shouldn’t have appealed or don’t ‘deserve’ to win the appeal… I mean, it’s one thing to think we’re on dodgy ground, it’s quite another to be implying through the vehemency of their arguments that they hope we don’t win.

I assume it’s some kind of reverse psychology or defence mechanism for when/if we don’t win it’s not as painful or disappointing?

Anyway, you don’t get anything without asking and if there’s any glimmer of a chance that we can get the points deduction reduced, then surely you’re going to take the opportunity to try it. There is very little to lose and quite a lot to gain (particularly given recent performances suggest my early optimism of overturning the deficit and pushing on is waning a bit).

Edited November 4, 2021 by LazloW

[glyn1957]

Well as i live in Stoke i thought i would look at the accounts for them , it looks like they lost 30.1 million last year which if you add the payment from the EFL which i think was about 8 million and that is some cash to lose and dare i say we would be on a better income to them so making it all the worse.

Plus if you examine the amount it would appear that they owe the cotes family in excess of 152 million now that is some dosh to find.

[PistoldPete]

11 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I didn't suggest that and more importantly why if someone disagrees with your point of view are they therefore extremely naïve?

I can only give you my experiences of conducting FMEAs in very large businesses to avoid or mitigate EXACTLY the predicament we have found ourselves in. 

So given your experience of conducting FMEAs whatever they are in very large businesses , what to the extent it is relevant to a provincial football club do you think Derby could have done to prevent lockdown or prevent the global pandemic.

should Mel have joined the anti lockdown anti vax protesters and superglued himself to a slip road on the m25.?

 

and if he had done that clearly lockdown wouldn’t have happened as everyone would have taken notice. PPS could have stayed open for business and we wouldn’t have taken a £20 million hit to our revenues .

 

problem sorted.

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I didn't suggest that and more importantly why if someone disagrees with your point of view are they therefore extremely naïve?

I can only give you my experiences of conducting FMEAs in very large businesses to avoid or mitigate EXACTLY the predicament we have found ourselves in. 

Did these businesses have go carry on paying full wages to its employees whilst having no income?

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Did these businesses have go carry on paying full wages to its employees whilst having no income?

And being very large businesses would they be expected to have much larger financial reserves anyway? But in any case what that has to do with Derby having to close the stadium for 18 months I don’t know. How were Derby supposed to stop that happening? It’s a very silly argument.

as far as the 12 point deduction is concerned it’s probably not relevant anyway we will be relegated anyway most likely. 
 

but I just don’t accept the argument that Derby’s problems are all self inflicted .. especially if those arguments are coming from people who are Rams fans . 

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Only happens in Derby..? 

You have made that comment before and several people have answered that for you.

[MuespachRam]

11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

You have made that comment before and several people have answered that for you.

So, no It didn’t.  Ok. Got It. 
can’t believe you are sticking up for the bloke who ha ruined this club but hey ho. 

[Archie]

13 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

So, no It didn’t.  Ok. Got It. 
can’t believe you are sticking up for the bloke who ha ruined this club but hey ho. 

So we should accept the 12 points to prove what a shister MM was? Madness. We should fight on if there is a glimmer we can reduce or remove it. You must accept that the pandemic was an unplanned, unpredictable event that has surely had a massive impact on revenues? You have to. Saying no other clubs have been affected and gone into administration thus far is nonsense as you do not know any of their accounts. One club has to be the first and sadly its us. Due to MM being a shister and then more recently the pandemic. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Archie

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 hours ago, LazloW said:

While I might have my doubts about whether or not we’re going to win the appeal, I find it quite odd and interesting how many of our own fans on here are actively arguing that either we shouldn’t have appealed or don’t ‘deserve’ to win the appeal… I mean, it’s one thing to think we’re on dodgy ground, it’s quite another to be implying through the vehemency of their arguments that they hope we don’t win.

I assume it’s some kind of reverse psychology or defence mechanism for when/if we don’t win it’s not as painful or disappointing?

Anyway, you don’t get anything without asking and if there’s any glimmer of a chance that we can get the points deduction reduced, then surely you’re going to take the opportunity to try it. There is very little to lose and quite a lot to gain (particularly given recent performances suggest my early optimism of overturning the deficit and pushing on is waning a bit).

I don't think we'll get any joy with the appeal, but I can see why it's worth trying and you never know. I'd be delighted if we did get anything reduced, 3 points, 6 points or 12 points, all massive boosts from the current situation.

I don't see the appeal in terms of DCFC right/EFL wrong (or the other way round) so much as is it a way to potentially improve the clubs possition? yes. When expolring the option, is there some case? Yes. Is the case strong enough to test? That's a judgment call from the administrator, we don't know if they think it worth it on a guess of a 1 in 3 chance or a 1 in 10 chance (or whatever).

 

[Tyler Durden]

4 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

And being very large businesses would they be expected to have much larger financial reserves anyway? But in any case what that has to do with Derby having to close the stadium for 18 months I don’t know. How were Derby supposed to stop that happening? It’s a very silly argument.

as far as the 12 point deduction is concerned it’s probably not relevant anyway we will be relegated anyway most likely. 
 

but I just don’t accept the argument that Derby’s problems are all self inflicted .. especially if those arguments are coming from people who are Rams fans . 

I don't think we'll ever agree so I'll leave you to your opinion and me to mine.

I don't think all of our issues are self inflicted and have never said this, but make no apology for progressing what or more importantly whom had a huge hand in where the club currently is at the moment. That doesn't make me any less of a fan then the next person.

At the moment the 12 points deduction seems like a moot point anyway and will only accelerate us towards the trapdoor but whatever the appeal outcome is I'll accept this.