Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[jono]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

No problem. Just read up on that kind of thing.

 

Brilliant ? 

[Boycie]

7 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

If true the Athletic tweet seems like a compromise and one I would accept. I don’t think we would over turn -15 points but at least we might ( due to the poor quality in the championship this year) have a glimmer of hope. 
 

we don’t have all of the information as to why we appealed the -12 points or our FFP score ( Mel said £4m). People might think they do but they don’t, information is limited.

Administration is a serious thing and it is right that clubs are penalised. It s also the right of a club to appeal based on the rules.

other clubs feel that on FFP we should receive a bigger penalty than Reading.  Their spending was Ona different scale to ours, their wage bill massive, their debt huge and their FFP overspent over 10 times ours ( and they have also sold their stadium).

-15 is a big penalty, in fact it might as well be -50 as to overturn it we would need to produce play off type performances and we don’t have the team or squad to do that. -15 also gives us an issue in January, do we try and bringin players to fight to stay in the championship or prepare for League 1.

A fight in the championship to the bitter end would get us ready to fight to get out of league one I think.  
If it all looks lost with say 6 games left, play the cream of the U23’s.

Then watch Boro’s latest dummy come flying over regards us not putting a full team out against their rivals.

 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Mick Brolly said:

Have you seen the videos of him? He must get some proper hidings carrying on like that. He's tiny for a start. It's akin to suicide by footy fan ?‍♀️

[hintonsboots]

2 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Have you seen the videos of him? He must get some proper hidings carrying on like that. He's tiny for a start. It's akin to suicide by footy fan ?‍♀️

Didn’t he have a spell as Sid Little’s stunt double ??

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

38 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Have you seen the videos of him? He must get some proper hidings carrying on like that. He's tiny for a start. It's akin to suicide by footy fan ?‍♀️

He's one of them blokes that's probably never been hit because A-   If I hit him I'll look like I'm picking on a bloke who's hard as a wet fart and could he end up in A&E  or B -  This blokes got some 7 foot silverbacks as backup who've just nipped to the bar,  he only weighs 8 stone. Everyone has a mate like that at some point, starts bother knowing they have others to finish it. You don't normally have them after your mid twenties though. Either way, bet he's got away with it for years.  

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Have you seen the videos of him? He must get some proper hidings carrying on like that. He's tiny for a start. It's akin to suicide by footy fan ?‍♀️

I assumed he was offering folk a swig of his beer. 

[kevinhectoring]

13 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I don't think any of that will happen. EFL wil not agree to any less then 12 point deduction for admin, and 9 or more for breaking FFP according to their preferred amortisation.  EFL will press for embargo whatever happens and to be honest I  can understand that... we just have to get out of the hard  embargo we are under. 

Amortisation going forward has never been an issue. If EFL had said they wanted amortise on Basis A or Basis B I wouldn't give a frig. It's the fact that they implicitly agree to the basis we had then change their minds (or rather a change at the top with Parry coming in changes things) . That's what has really messed us about.

 

 

I think we should amortise the -12 points on a straight line basis to the end of the season   ? 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

A fight in the championship to the bitter end would get us ready to fight to get out of league one I think.  
If it all looks lost with say 6 games left, play the cream of the U23’s.

Then watch Boro’s latest dummy come flying over regards us not putting a full team out against their rivals.

 

Under those circumstances, play our strongest team against Boro, and bring myself and the Memsahib in as centre backs* against any 'rivals' of theirs.

 

* We're not much older than Phil Jagielka and Curtis Davies anyway.

[Crewton]

The great thing about the Nixon tweet and the Athletic article is that they've got the saddoes at OTIB absolutely soiling themselves. Indignation is running at an all-time high and Mr Ploppy has burst his inflatable friend in rage.

More news stories like that please everyone.

[PistoldPete]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

The great thing about the Nixon tweet and the Athletic article is that they've got the saddoes at OTIB absolutely soiling themselves. Indignation is running at an all-time high and Mr Ploppy has burst his inflatable friend in rage.

More news stories like that please everyone.

 No idea if the Athletic story is true. Why would the FFP penalty be reduced to 3 points when previously the talk was of 9 points? Maybe Efl are worried they could lose the administration appeal and open the floodgates for other teams? Who knows?

anyway if the deal is a 15 point overall deduction. If that brings enough certainty to secure a buyer that guarantees our future , and an end to the poo show with the Efl then it’s a qualified yes from me , even if it means near certain relegation. It’s the lesser of the evils. 

[Woodley Ram]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Under those circumstances, play our strongest team against Boro, and bring myself and the Memsahib in as centre backs* against any 'rivals' of theirs.

 

* We're not much older than Phil Jagielka and Curtis Davies anyway.

in your 60's then ?

[Crewton]

22 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

 No idea if the Athletic story is true. Why would the FFP penalty be reduced to 3 points when previously the talk was of 9 points? Maybe Efl are worried they could lose the administration appeal and open the floodgates for other teams? Who knows?

anyway if the deal is a 15 point overall deduction. If that brings enough certainty to secure a buyer that guarantees our future , and an end to the poo show with the Efl then it’s a qualified yes from me , even if it means near certain relegation. It’s the lesser of the evils. 

I don't think it's clear where any of these rumours are coming from. There was never any stated basis for the -9 claim : I assumed it was the EFL's negotiating position based on sweeping all of the different breaches listed on the EFL website, whilst DCFC's position was that only the (rumoured) P&S overspend for 2015-18 warranted a points deduction and that was a maximum of -4.

Whatever, it appears we won't have long to wait to find out. 

[PistoldPete]

7 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I don't think it's clear where any of these rumours are coming from. There was never any stated basis for the -9 claim : I assumed it was the EFL's negotiating position based on sweeping all of the different breaches listed on the EFL website, whilst DCFC's position was that only the (rumoured) P&S overspend for 2015-18 warranted a points deduction and that was a maximum of -4.

Whatever, it appears we won't have long to wait to find out. 

My understanding from what Mel said on RD was that -4 was the scale penalty for a £4m overspend up to 2018 and they had been negotiating with EFL so that they didn't keep getting hit with penalties for the same thing, ie because our amortisation method wasn't to EFL's liking the reworked figures for 2018-19 and maybe after were also affected by the amortisation issue,. Anyway as you say we will find out what if anything is agreed. 

[Woodley Ram]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

The great thing about the Nixon tweet and the Athletic article is that they've got the saddoes at OTIB absolutely soiling themselves. Indignation is running at an all-time high and Mr Ploppy has burst his inflatable friend in rage.

More news stories like that please everyone.

Unfortunately they have beaten themselves into a rage. They have no more information than we do but they keep coming up with reasons why we should be made an example of. 

With points deductions, yes I can see why administration gets you -12 and then you get further points for being over the FFP limits (although I don't see why pop thinks we should get more than Reading despite them being overspent by 10 times more( it alleged that we are only £4m over)).

Not sure if I understand the call for points deductions for not paying HMRC, being late for paying transfer fees and being late putting in accounts. Isn't the HMRC payment and transfer fee (singular) part of the admin deduction, anyway show me where anyone else has received a points deduction for that?   

Re putting in the accounts late, I'm not sure how we could have done that without agreeing the re-amortised accounts first (the originals were submitted). The last two years were unlikely to be above FFP limits as the major costs had been eradicated. Anyway what other club has had points deductions for not producing their accounts....none, they get a transfer embargo until they do...Coventry et al. 

So in conclusion

Yes to the admin deduction (unless their is a legal reason to overturn (FM)) and appropriate FFP deductions based on the Birmingham scale and no to deductions for the others.

It all really needs to be based on facts and we don't have many to go on

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

If we only end up with 15 points off given everything this season it makes results like the Peterborough and Barnsley matches even more frustrating.

[MACKWORTHRAM]

11 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

If true the Athletic tweet seems like a compromise and one I would accept. I don’t think we would over turn -15 points but at least we might ( due to the poor quality in the championship this year) have a glimmer of hope. 
 

we don’t have all of the information as to why we appealed the -12 points or our FFP score ( Mel said £4m). People might think they do but they don’t, information is limited.

Administration is a serious thing and it is right that clubs are penalised. It s also the right of a club to appeal based on the rules.

other clubs feel that on FFP we should receive a bigger penalty than Reading.  Their spending was Ona different scale to ours, their wage bill massive, their debt huge and their FFP overspent over 10 times ours ( and they have also sold their stadium).

-15 is a big penalty, in fact it might as well be -50 as to overturn it we would need to produce play off type performances and we don’t have the team or squad to do that. -15 also gives us an issue in January, do we try and bringin players to fight to stay in the championship or prepare for League 1.

I think we'd bring players in to prepare for league one. Get them used to being around the club, playing and building so we're ready for league one next season..

If we lose 3 points we'd be 12 points off. Considering our next 2 games are Bournemouth and Fulham I'd have a guess that 12 points would probably be 15 after that.

To me that's impossible. 

I think we just need to get a few loans in and the odd permanent signing in who are aware that they will be playing in league one.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Why the hell would we get ready for league 1 in January, especially if we’re within 10-12 points from safety. 
 

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

My understanding from what Mel said on RD was that -4 was the scale penalty for a £4m overspend up to 2018 and they had been negotiating with EFL so that they didn't keep getting hit with penalties for the same thing, ie because our amortisation method wasn't to EFL's liking the reworked figures for 2018-19 and maybe after were also affected by the amortisation issue,. Anyway as you say we will find out what if anything is agreed. 

Yes minus 4 for the first offence was what MM said, assuming straight line amortisation. As you say, he also alluded to subsequent breaches

-15 is probably more than we deserve but it may be what we have to suffer to meet the admins timetable. It’s important for the EFL that it’s 12 (admin) plus 3 (FFP) because they want to show other clubs admin is not a soft option

i think we’ll stay up if it’s -15 

[Ramos]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes minus 4 for the first offence was what MM said, assuming straight line amortisation. As you say, he also alluded to subsequent breaches

-15 is probably more than we deserve but it may be what we have to suffer to meet the admins timetable. It’s important for the EFL that it’s 12 (admin) plus 3 (FFP) because they want to show other clubs admin is not a soft option

i think we’ll stay up if it’s -15 

Well we need to start winning games, scoring more than one goal and stop conceding soft goals. It’s not the point deductions impacting my confidence right now of staying up its the results. I can’t actually wait till we finally have a transfer window (no matter what league) where Wayne can actually freely build a squad to his liking. 

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes minus 4 for the first offence was what MM said, assuming straight line amortisation. As you say, he also alluded to subsequent breaches

-15 is probably more than we deserve but it may be what we have to suffer to meet the admins timetable. It’s important for the EFL that it’s 12 (admin) plus 3 (FFP) because they want to show other clubs admin is not a soft option

i think we’ll stay up if it’s -15 

I think if the athletic story is true you may have hit the nail on the head. Efl want to present it as 12 points for admin and 3 for ffp … in reality they might be worried about losing the admin appeal and that setting a precedent for other clubs. So they will present it as a 12 points for admin as that looks better for them.