Double-Edged Sword

[Carl Sagan]

19 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

However, I'm vehemently anti-drugs and simply do not accept that class A drugs such as coke or heroin should be legalised or even that somehow they're less dangerous than smoking or drinking. The amount of tobacco/alcohol you need to consume for it to become a major health risk - is anyone really saying that taking the proportionally same amount of coke or heroin would also not pose significant danger? Police I know have to spend most of their time dealing with drug-related crime, not alcohol or tobacco-related crime.

You must realize you're making the argument for legalization here with your comment about police time? 

And as for your earlier point, the drug toxicity charts that place alcohol and heroin pretty much jointly at the top are based on the amounts you need to consume for it to be a health risk. Pure cocaine is significantly less harmful, except because the state decides this should be illegal, no one knows what they're actually taking so the illegality forces people to take their life in their hands when every time they do. What utter madness in societal terms. It's like prohibiting alcohol, so people might end up drinking antifreeze as they don't know what's in it.

[TuffLuff]

Problem isn’t necessarily the drugs/drink by itself but how you’re demographic of people who can afford to go to football has changed.

The Mel Morris era brought in a lot of families and people with a bit more disposable income to home games, and I don’t mean it’s his fault per se because there’s enough of that going round, but there was a notable increase in the price of matchday tickets across the whole of football in this time. I think we are seeing the knock on effect of this a little bit now because those families went as the chances of the premier league diminished but also those who can’t really afford it aren’t commiting either, or at least picking their games more.

Something similar happened with the away games, in that I think it became less affordable and then you are getting groups of lads that probably have a bit more of a disposable income and don’t really understand consequences past ‘all I care about is me and my mates’ rather than considering you are part of a collective supporter base with people of all ages etc who might think different to you.

I don’t mean to write such a flippant post, especially with a lot of generalisations based really on class, and I don’t want to write something that can easily be misconstrued. They pay their money and go support the club and in some way that’s fair enough. But simple point is that’s how I largely see the changes in the last 5/6 years, look at the photos of the away fans on Saturday and how they look/dress the same. Let’s be honest even for a short trip to Sheffield, with a ticket, transport, a few travelling beers and a few bits of whatever else you are looking at £70 before you’ve even stepped off the train. Again it’s back to the point I feel like I continually say at the minute that we are a unique club with a wide ranging fan base that spreads over the county and it needs to realised more, the fanbase hasn’t really shrunk but it’s all gone into more niche pockets where everyone wants something different. 
 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TuffLuff

[angieram]

53 minutes ago, swanny said:

am i right in thinking there will be plenty of standing away days in league one...? 

Old Brentford ground was standing downstairs, seats upstairs - perfect. Now they've replaced it with a shiny all-seater, although with a safe standing section.

Think Burton offer both too.

Actually, safe standing in away areas is a way to go - then people can choose.

 

[VulcanRam]

30 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

You must realize you're making the argument for legalization here with your comment about police time? 

And as for your earlier point, the drug toxicity charts that place alcohol and heroin pretty much jointly at the top are based on the amounts you need to consume for it to be a health risk. Pure cocaine is significantly less harmful, except because the state decides this should be illegal, no one knows what they're actually taking so the illegality forces people to take their life in their hands when every time they do. What utter madness in societal terms. It's like prohibiting alcohol, so people might end up drinking antifreeze as they don't know what's in it.

Nope, quite the opposite. What I'd actually prefer is stricter prohibition, harsher sentences and for Governments to take the issue more seriously.

Edited September 28, 2021 by VulcanRam

[ColonelBlimp]

2 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

Nope, quite the opposite. What I'd actually prefer is stricter prohibition, harsher sentences and for Governments to take the issue more seriously.

Why would you prefer that when all the evidence points to it not working?

[Gone]

6 hours ago, angieram said:

Old Brentford ground was standing downstairs, seats upstairs - perfect. Now they've replaced it with a shiny all-seater, although with a safe standing section.

Think Burton offer both too.

Actually, safe standing in away areas is a way to go - then people can choose.

 

Brentford, a great away day at the old ground. Pub  on every corner of the ground so you could get smashed before going in the ground and bouncing, shouting then jumping up and down on the terracing !!! Just kidding Angie but a great away day and lovely ground, shame they’ve moved out ?

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Brentford, a great away day at the old ground. Pub  on every corner of the ground so you could get smashed before going in the ground and bouncing, shouting then jumping up and down on the terracing !!! Just kidding Angie but a great away day and lovely ground, shame they’ve moved out ?

It was always my favourite non Blackpool/Bournemouth/Brighton/Brizzle away day.

Why did all the great away days begin with 'B'?

Hang about... Burnley, Bury, Bradford...

Forget anything I said.

[SillyBilly]

Definitely an increased prevalence of cocaine these days and sure this is contributing. I've heard "pre-drinks" at universities is more like "pre-drugs" these days , think the decline in drinking we have seen by the youth may be offset by increase in other drugs.

Last away game I went to (Reading) I was surrounded by a few lads completely off it on coke. To be honest I'd rather be next to someone blind drunk than on coke.

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Definitely an increased prevalence of cocaine these days and sure this is contributing. I've heard "pre-drinks" at universities is more like "pre-drugs" these days , think the decline in drinking we have seen by the youth may be offset by increase in other drugs.

Last away game I went to (Reading) I was surrounded by a few lads completely off it on coke. To be honest I'd rather be next to someone blind drunk than on coke.

I'm a boring old fart, so I'm not sure I'd recognise someone off their head on coke as opposed to blind drunk. What are the signs?

[Van der MoodHoover]

My father was duffed up in the 1970s, on the way back to his car in Derby, by Derby fans, for expressing a view to his mate that the opposition had deserved to win.... ?

Quite shook him up it did. 

[Pearl Ram]

Dancing to Leonard Cohen would be a bit of a giveaway.

[SillyBilly]

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm a boring old fart, so I'm not sure I'd recognise someone off their head on coke as opposed to blind drunk. What are the signs?

A drunk is likely to be stumbling around as impaired physically as they are mentally, just a loss of control really.

There is no such impairment with coke, you tend to just see a massive over exuberance of swagger/bluster/confidence. More dangerous in my view as unlike a drunk they can string sentences together coherently and walk in a straight line while at the same time being pretty outrageous. 

[ramit]

i don't get this whole chanting thing at all, but the little info i have been able to gather suggests that insults against opposing fans is a good thing, while grievous insults are considered too much of a good thing.  What confuses me is the exact placement of the line separating said insults.

Edited September 29, 2021 by ramit
typo

[Mucker1884]

14 minutes ago, ramit said:

i don't get this whole chanting thing at all, but the little info i have been able to gather suggests that insults against opposing fans is a good thing, while grievous insults are considered too much of a good thing.  What confuses me is the exact placement of the line separating said insults.

Point A:  Where humour and decency meet.
Point B:  Where offence and abuse meet.

The line must always connect Point A with Point B.

However, the line does not need to be straight, or run directly between the two points.  Neither does it need to be regular, symmetrical, or have angled diversions.  It may meander twixt the two, and is often curved in its natural form, most often resembling a wave, with multiple curves, troughs, and peaks.

In modern times, it is not inconceivable to draw a double line, each of which can be of indeterminate thickness, thus failing to pin-pointing a definitive/specific boundary.  Double lines do not need to remain parallel throughout their entirety, therefore are not always of the same length.   

 

Hope that cleared that up for you!   ?

 

 

[Anag Ram]

I don’t see why you need to abuse the opposition at all. Surely the attraction of football is to support your team and to encourage them to play well?

 I can’t imagine any player being encouraged to play well through an insult to the opposition.

Its a cultural thing which needs to change. We’ve managed to remove bigotry and hatred from other areas of our lives. Let’s stamp it out of football too. It’s the last bastion of the thug.

[Raminphilippines]

Back in the days when Shilton played for us. We played Norwich away and Norwich fans were singing about his wife. At the time I was a taxi driver in Norwich and would often pick up the players from night clubs. I also used to pick up a girl that looked like a model who spent a lot of time with different players. So when Norwich fans started on Shilton I quickly spread it around the Derby fans about this girl Sonia. Within 10 minutes Derby supporters started to Chant "We bet you've all been through Sonia" almost every Norwich player stopped for a second and looked towards the Derby fans as if they were thinking how the hell do Derby fans know about her. 

[Brammie Steve]

19 hours ago, angieram said:

Old Brentford ground was standing downstairs, seats upstairs - perfect. Now they've replaced it with a shiny all-seater, although with a safe standing section.

Think Burton offer both too.

Actually, safe standing in away areas is a way to go - then people can choose.

 

I liked Burton’s Eton Road ground in the 70s.

You could wander back and forth like the linesman then stand behind the goal during the match!

Conversely, nothing could beat standing on the PopSide getting crushed half to death!

I remember Mozza saying “I fainted but ain’t hit the ground yet!”

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, Raminphilippines said:

Back in the days when Shilton played for us. We played Norwich away and Norwich fans were singing about his wife. At the time I was a taxi driver in Norwich and would often pick up the players from night clubs. I also used to pick up a girl that looked like a model who spent a lot of time with different players. So when Norwich fans started on Shilton I quickly spread it around the Derby fans about this girl Sonia. Within 10 minutes Derby supporters started to Chant "We bet you've all been through Sonia" almost every Norwich player stopped for a second and looked towards the Derby fans as if they were thinking how the hell do Derby fans know about her. 

I was at that game mate. I remember the Derby fans singing about Flecks wife, then Shilton tapping the side of his head at the Norwich fans when they started their own version of She’s here she’s there……..

Didnt it finish 1-0 to Norwich??

[Ram-Alf]

3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

Point A:  Where humour and decency meet.
Point B:  Where offence and abuse meet.

The line must always connect Point A with Point B.

However, the line does not need to be straight, or run directly between the two points.  Neither does it need to be regular, symmetrical, or have angled diversions.  It may meander twixt the two, and is often curved in its natural form, most often resembling a wave, with multiple curves, troughs, and peaks.

In modern times, it is not inconceivable to draw a double line, each of which can be of indeterminate thickness, thus failing to pin-pointing a definitive/specific boundary.  Double lines do not need to remain parallel throughout their entirety, therefore are not always of the same length.   

 

Hope that cleared that up for you!   ?

 

 

Nope still dont get it ?

[Mucker1884]

12 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Nope still dont get it ?

 

Bloody thicko!

Once more... Concentrate this time...