Mel Morris fan club

[Tamworthram]

15 hours ago, Alpha said:

Yes!! 

I think getting involved in any sort of grudge match is such a waste of energy and had a chance to lead to somebody taking it too far. 

Remember the war Blackpool found themselves in with Oystons 

I agree. Hence why any sort of protests could be counterproductive. I’m not excusing him but, regardless of how big a fan he is or claims to, there is only so much a man can take before he thinks **** the of you.

Now is a time to maintain a mature and respectful relationship with Mel.

[ram59]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I agree. Hence why any sort of protests could be counterproductive. I’m not excusing him but, regardless of how big a fan he is or claims to, there is only so much a man can take before he thinks **** the of you.

Now is a time to maintain a mature and respectful relationship with Mel.

I agree, remember MM is still in a great position to influence the club's future, he still has a say in the cost of the ground and also, is owed a lot of money by the club. If he is still sympathetic to the club, he could write off the monies owed to him and negotiate very attractive ground rents. On the other hand, if things turn nasty, he could retaliate and make life a lot more difficult than it already is.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, ram59 said:

I agree, remember MM is still in a great position to influence the club's future, he still has a say in the cost of the ground and also, is owed a lot of money by the club. If he is still sympathetic to the club, he could write off the monies owed to him and negotiate very attractive ground rents. On the other hand, if things turn nasty, he could retaliate and make life a lot more difficult than it already is.

Well hopefully he won't as a self-proclaimed Derby fan. The other angle being don't, cos he's not won many battles has he? ?

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well hopefully he won't as a self-proclaimed Derby fan. The other angle being don't, cos he's not won many battles has he? ?

Having amassed a £575 million fortune, he's probably won a few more than you or I and a fair few more than he's lost. Poking a bear to see if it reacts ain't really that smart a move anyway.

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Having amassed a £575 million fortune, he's probably won a few more than you or I and a fair few more than he's lost. Poking a bear to see if it reacts ain't really that smart a move anyway.

Well he didn't do so well in his football battles was the point! The bear comes 'ready poked' mate. Ask Rush and Keogh how they did.

[Bob The Badger]

7 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

One of the facts we do have at hand is he never paid the tax bill. At what point did think that would never come back to bite him on the arse ? 

Not sure if you're talking to me, but all I can offer is people (I mean all people, you and I included) can make strange and seemingly illogical decisions, especially when under extreme pressure.

So I have no clue on the answer to your question because I have no clue what the decision to not pay the bill was based on.

If you can let me know what MM was thinking then I can have a guess.

But even then it would only be a guess.

I'm sure others on this board know for a fact though.

 

 

[Pearl Ram]

6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Not sure if you're talking to me, but all I can offer is people (I mean all people, you and I included) can make strange and seemingly illogical decisions, especially when under extreme pressure.

So I have no clue on the answer to your question because I have no clue what the decision to not pay the bill was based on.

If you can let me know what MM was thinking then I can have a guess.

But even then it would only be a guess.

I'm sure others on this board know for a fact though.

 

 

Extreme pressure or not, the taxman ain’t going away, you’d have to be completely gaga to think otherwise. Furthermore, he employed a CEO who would also be aware the taxman doesn’t go away. So kindly spare me the if you know what Morris was thinking guff it adds no strength to your feeble argument.

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Not sure if you're talking to me, but all I can offer is people (I mean all people, you and I included) can make strange and seemingly illogical decisions, especially when under extreme pressure. So I have no clue on the answer to your question because I have no clue what the decision to not pay the bill was based on.

If you can let me know what MM was thinking then I can have a guess.

But even then it would only be a guess.

I'm sure others on this board know for a fact though.

I've got the doctors mobile phone, I'll give him a ring and ask him? ?

Edited September 24, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Ram-Alf]

23 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Not sure if you're talking to me, but all I can offer is people (I mean all people, you and I included) can make strange and seemingly illogical decisions, especially when under extreme pressure.

So I have no clue on the answer to your question because I have no clue what the decision to not pay the bill was based on.

If you can let me know what MM was thinking then I can have a guess.

But even then it would only be a guess.

I'm sure others on this board know for a fact though.

 

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

Extreme pressure or not, the taxman ain’t going away, you’d have to be completely gaga to think otherwise. Furthermore, he employed a CEO who would also be aware the taxman doesn’t go away. So kindly spare me the if you know what Morris was thinking guff it adds no strength to your feeble argument.

Just because you know very little about social psychology and decision-making doesn't make my argument feeble, it just means you don't understand it.

[Malty]

Mel Morris is getting such a hard time at the moment from everyone in the press and around the club. Maybe they are right to be blaming Mel for many of our sins, but I’m just not 100% convinced that it’s justified.

 

What is he guilty of exactly….

 

So he spent £200m trying to get DCFC to the premier league (tell me if you had that much money that you wouldn’t - even for a second think about doing that for Derby)

 

He spent a fortune on players some of which have not been particularly successful (as many many chairman have across the leagues)

 

He supported our academy, growing young players that have gone on to be sold or are playing in or around our first team - with more on their heels.

 

He gambled again by bringing a premier league legend in as manager and nearly made it, only losing in the play off final.

 

He stretched every rule he could whether that’s accounting wise by pushing expenditure into the academy rather than the football team, playing with agents fees, playing with amortisation, arranging a real with a betting company and selling the stadium to himself. He did those things to try and defeat financial fair play. If others around him were stronger, perhaps they would have convinced him otherwise. I have worked for chief execs like this and you have to be strong to challenge. With any rules people will try and find loopholes and many accountants make a career and a huge amount of money out of doing just that. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying that if there is not enough challenge then people will bend the rules … and Mel did it with the aim of competing with other clubs and getting DCFC to the prem … and how many fans were complaining at the time?

 

Once he’d blown his millions naturally he looked for a buyer to take over … in the process cutting the wage bill drastically over a period of 2-3 years to make the club more sustainable and more appealing to a buyer (“its a clean slate your starting with”). He nearly did this twice and unfortunately covid got in the way. Tell me anyone, anywhere in business that even brought covid into their business plans three years ago. No one could have predicted it and guess what? It cost me Morris apparently £1.25m a month, another £15m then. 

 

DCFC reportedly has multiple potential buyers now … where were they before? Well I would hazard a guess that they were just waiting for Mel to do exactly this … and Mel may well have thought that the best thing for the club would be to swallow the pill, get the deductions and start again with fresh, wealthy owners. Whether that’s in the championship or league one.

 

I’m fact I would even suggest that they were putting pressure on Mel to go into administration so that they could buy DCFC at an even cheaper price.

 

Look, Mel did a huge amount wrong, with the Keogh debacle, Sam Rush, believing fake sheikhs and Eric alonso, poor communication, being too bullish, supporting dodgy signings, firing managers, even the final option of administration was another error in my view … I just couldn’t justify myself plunging the good employees of DCFC into financial difficulties, wage cuts job losses etc if I could genuinely afford to keep the club afloat (Rhys just my view, clearly not Mels). But I honestly think the vast majority of what he did was in his view in the interests of DCFC.

 

Perhaps I’ll be proved to be completely wrong. Perhaps he’s one of the worst crooks known to mankind, I just think right now he’s the fall guy, he’s getting a huge amount of stick and he’s suffering because of his poor communication and his failure to properly say sorry.

 

I just wonder, I really do if he did this because it was the only option left on the table that would ultimately secure DCFC a strong and prosperous future, potentially, eventually back in the premier league where we belong.

 

I really hope the above doesn’t offend anyone. I really wouldn’t have taken the drastic step myself and I can’t support Mel on doing that, I’m just saying that in his head perhaps  he genuinely thought he was doing what he thought was right for DCFC.

[Jayram]

25 minutes ago, Malty said:

Mel Morris is getting such a hard time at the moment from everyone in the press and around the club. Maybe they are right to be blaming Mel for many of our sins, but I’m just not 100% convinced that it’s justified.

 

What is he guilty of exactly….

 

So he spent £200m trying to get DCFC to the premier league (tell me if you had that much money that you wouldn’t - even for a second think about doing that for Derby)

 

He spent a fortune on players some of which have not been particularly successful (as many many chairman have across the leagues)

 

He supported our academy, growing young players that have gone on to be sold or are playing in or around our first team - with more on their heels.

 

He gambled again by bringing a premier league legend in as manager and nearly made it, only losing in the play off final.

 

He stretched every rule he could whether that’s accounting wise by pushing expenditure into the academy rather than the football team, playing with agents fees, playing with amortisation, arranging a real with a betting company and selling the stadium to himself. He did those things to try and defeat financial fair play. If others around him were stronger, perhaps they would have convinced him otherwise. I have worked for chief execs like this and you have to be strong to challenge. With any rules people will try and find loopholes and many accountants make a career and a huge amount of money out of doing just that. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying that if there is not enough challenge then people will bend the rules … and Mel did it with the aim of competing with other clubs and getting DCFC to the prem … and how many fans were complaining at the time?

 

Once he’d blown his millions naturally he looked for a buyer to take over … in the process cutting the wage bill drastically over a period of 2-3 years to make the club more sustainable and more appealing to a buyer (“its a clean slate your starting with”). He nearly did this twice and unfortunately covid got in the way. Tell me anyone, anywhere in business that even brought covid into their business plans three years ago. No one could have predicted it and guess what? It cost me Morris apparently £1.25m a month, another £15m then. 

 

DCFC reportedly has multiple potential buyers now … where were they before? Well I would hazard a guess that they were just waiting for Mel to do exactly this … and Mel may well have thought that the best thing for the club would be to swallow the pill, get the deductions and start again with fresh, wealthy owners. Whether that’s in the championship or league one.

 

I’m fact I would even suggest that they were putting pressure on Mel to go into administration so that they could buy DCFC at an even cheaper price.

 

Look, Mel did a huge amount wrong, with the Keogh debacle, Sam Rush, believing fake sheikhs and Eric alonso, poor communication, being too bullish, supporting dodgy signings, firing managers, even the final option of administration was another error in my view … I just couldn’t justify myself plunging the good employees of DCFC into financial difficulties, wage cuts job losses etc if I could genuinely afford to keep the club afloat (Rhys just my view, clearly not Mels). But I honestly think the vast majority of what he did was in his view in the interests of DCFC.

 

Perhaps I’ll be proved to be completely wrong. Perhaps he’s one of the worst crooks known to mankind, I just think right now he’s the fall guy, he’s getting a huge amount of stick and he’s suffering because of his poor communication and his failure to properly say sorry.

 

I just wonder, I really do if he did this because it was the only option left on the table that would ultimately secure DCFC a strong and prosperous future, potentially, eventually back in the premier league where we belong.

 

I really hope the above doesn’t offend anyone. I really wouldn’t have taken the drastic step myself and I can’t support Mel on doing that, I’m just saying that in his head perhaps  he genuinely thought he was doing what he thought was right for DCFC.

This is a forum for us Rams fans to vent Malty, so your opinions shouldn’t offend anyone. Personally I think Morris is the worst owner we have ever had and has absolutely no regard for the feelings of the fans, coaching staff, players or employees of DCFC. I think the revelations from Rooney about the lack of communication and perceived lack of contrition for what’s happened from Morris tells you everything you need to know about him as a person, let alone as an owner. 
In my view he has put the club into administration in order to avoid liability for the mess he has created and to preserve his own personal fortune, not because it’s the best thing for the club. 
 

[Russell Ram]

16 minutes ago, Jayram said:

This is a forum for us Rams fans to vent Malty, so your opinions shouldn’t offend anyone. Personally I think Morris is the worst owner we have ever had and has absolutely no regard for the feelings of the fans, coaching staff, players or employees of DCFC. I think the revelations from Rooney about the lack of communication and perceived lack of contrition for what’s happened from Morris tells you everything you need to know about him as a person, let alone as an owner. 
In my view he has put the club into administration in order to avoid liability for the mess he has created and to preserve his own personal fortune, not because it’s the best thing for the club. 
 

In a nutshell, 100% spot on. 

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, Malty said:

Mel Morris is getting such a hard time at the moment from everyone in the press and around the club. Maybe they are right to be blaming Mel for many of our sins, but I’m just not 100% convinced that it’s justified.

 

What is he guilty of exactly….

 

So he spent £200m trying to get DCFC to the premier league (tell me if you had that much money that you wouldn’t - even for a second think about doing that for Derby)

 

He spent a fortune on players some of which have not been particularly successful (as many many chairman have across the leagues)

 

He supported our academy, growing young players that have gone on to be sold or are playing in or around our first team - with more on their heels.

 

He gambled again by bringing a premier league legend in as manager and nearly made it, only losing in the play off final.

 

He stretched every rule he could whether that’s accounting wise by pushing expenditure into the academy rather than the football team, playing with agents fees, playing with amortisation, arranging a real with a betting company and selling the stadium to himself. He did those things to try and defeat financial fair play. If others around him were stronger, perhaps they would have convinced him otherwise. I have worked for chief execs like this and you have to be strong to challenge. With any rules people will try and find loopholes and many accountants make a career and a huge amount of money out of doing just that. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying that if there is not enough challenge then people will bend the rules … and Mel did it with the aim of competing with other clubs and getting DCFC to the prem … and how many fans were complaining at the time?

 

Once he’d blown his millions naturally he looked for a buyer to take over … in the process cutting the wage bill drastically over a period of 2-3 years to make the club more sustainable and more appealing to a buyer (“its a clean slate your starting with”). He nearly did this twice and unfortunately covid got in the way. Tell me anyone, anywhere in business that even brought covid into their business plans three years ago. No one could have predicted it and guess what? It cost me Morris apparently £1.25m a month, another £15m then. 

 

DCFC reportedly has multiple potential buyers now … where were they before? Well I would hazard a guess that they were just waiting for Mel to do exactly this … and Mel may well have thought that the best thing for the club would be to swallow the pill, get the deductions and start again with fresh, wealthy owners. Whether that’s in the championship or league one.

 

I’m fact I would even suggest that they were putting pressure on Mel to go into administration so that they could buy DCFC at an even cheaper price.

 

Look, Mel did a huge amount wrong, with the Keogh debacle, Sam Rush, believing fake sheikhs and Eric alonso, poor communication, being too bullish, supporting dodgy signings, firing managers, even the final option of administration was another error in my view … I just couldn’t justify myself plunging the good employees of DCFC into financial difficulties, wage cuts job losses etc if I could genuinely afford to keep the club afloat (Rhys just my view, clearly not Mels). But I honestly think the vast majority of what he did was in his view in the interests of DCFC.

 

Perhaps I’ll be proved to be completely wrong. Perhaps he’s one of the worst crooks known to mankind, I just think right now he’s the fall guy, he’s getting a huge amount of stick and he’s suffering because of his poor communication and his failure to properly say sorry.

 

I just wonder, I really do if he did this because it was the only option left on the table that would ultimately secure DCFC a strong and prosperous future, potentially, eventually back in the premier league where we belong.

 

I really hope the above doesn’t offend anyone. I really wouldn’t have taken the drastic step myself and I can’t support Mel on doing that, I’m just saying that in his head perhaps  he genuinely thought he was doing what he thought was right for DCFC.

I don't think anyone's painting him as a crook or suggesting his heart hasn't been in the right place. Its inevitable the ending place of an ownership will colour people's judgements though.

The reality is he has condemned us to League One football as we won't overcome the 12 point penalty for administration plus the likely FFP 9 point penalty (brought about by his gambling). Yes, potential buyers have come out of the shadows now we're in administration but was there really no cheap deal Mel could have facilitated whilst he was still in charge? 

We talk about his financial gambles as a desire to get us into the Prem but there are gambles & then the kind of gambles that lead to the existential crisis we're now facing. He recognised back in spring 2018 that we needed to rein it in & as a consequence, Rowett left thinking there was to be no more big spending. Little more than 3 months later, we hired Lampard, threw millions around & brought in unbelievable loans for this level - that to me was irresponsibility far beyond a desire to do well. It was this period that incited the attention we now have from the EFL & the rest of the division & to bring in Cocu on a 4 year deal on massive wages, Rooney & spend £10m on Bielik after Wembley 2019 was just astonishing given he was already actively trying to sell the club.

To my mind there's the morality of clearing up a mess you've created - he hasn't done that & is trusting the 'market' of buyers to pick us up & rebuild us. Whether that leads to a brighter future will only become clear in the fullest of time but I will never support his decision to put us into administration - its reckless, shirks accountability & seems entirely in keeping with how he ran the club.

As to the general sentiment of your post & not withstanding my criticism of him above, I do agree with others that we do need to maintain a mature relationship with Mel given his control of PP & loans to him.

Edited September 25, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Crewton]

Bielik didn't cost £10m, more like £7m plus add-ons, but given that was covered by the playoff receipts and Lampard compo, and how good the guy is, I can understand why that decision was taken. 

It remains the decisions taken in Mel's first 3 years of ownership, and the ones certain players took on a night out in the autumn of 2019, that have ultimately screwed us. 

[RoyMac5]

4 hours ago, Crewton said:

Bielik didn't cost £10m, more like £7m plus add-ons, but given that was covered by the playoff receipts and Lampard compo, and how good the guy is, I can understand why that decision was taken. 

It remains the decisions taken in Mel's first 3 years of ownership, and the ones certain players took on a night out in the autumn of 2019, that have ultimately screwed us. 

Mel kept spending until he dropped us in it. There were lots of players we could have spent money on that might have been worth - but the point is we really didn't have that money to spend. 

[alram]

mel would know the club, he would have known this situation had been coming for years and years. he has been trying to jump ship for years to avoid the blame but potential buyers have probably looked at the situation and thought not a chance in hell.

[Red Ram]

Worth bearing this in mind though isn't it?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10028621/Derby-owner-Morris-writing-100million-loans-administrators-reveal-expressions-interest.html

 

[Pearl Ram]

Do you know what Red Ram, my head’s spinning with all the different stuff I’ve read regarding what we owe to who, I’m not sure what is inaccurate and what is factual. Similarly if what the Mail are saying is true, it’s a fine gesture and one I’ll bare in mind when I’m thinking more negatively about Morris.

I just can’t get past blanking the taxman though, I was self employed for 11 years and always put money away for him because you always knew he’d be loitering with intent and wasn’t interested in sad stories. 

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Worth bearing this in mind though isn't it?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10028621/Derby-owner-Morris-writing-100million-loans-administrators-reveal-expressions-interest.html

What does it really mean though?