duncanjwitham Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Spanish said: I think it is very simple, a specific audit statement that each club is complying with amortization rules as part of the accounts filing process. No club can be faulted in those circumstances. I know the auditors sign off the whole set of accounts but in my industry they do that and also provide a reliance confirmation to our regulators Not sure that would make any difference TBH. The EFL appear to have decided that they know accounting rules better than the auditors, so why would another statement from them change anything? And even if they do it for amortization, it could be any other aspect of the accounts next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: That's a crazy approach though, unless I'm completely misunderstanding you. You can't have clubs submitting P&S returns and the EFL demanding they change them based on an unknown and undocumented set of rules. You'd have the situation where a club can submit a set of accounts that they believe meet FFP thresholds, that have been signed off by auditors, accepted by HMRC etc etc, and the EFL can come back a month later and say we redid your numbers based on rules we didn't tell you about, and now you failed by £Xm so here's a big points deduction? Welcome to the world of EFL accountancyball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: That's a crazy approach though, unless I'm completely misunderstanding you. You can't have clubs submitting P&S returns and the EFL demanding they change them based on an unknown and undocumented set of rules. You'd have the situation where a club can submit a set of accounts that they believe meet FFP thresholds, that have been signed off by auditors, accepted by HMRC etc etc, and the EFL can come back a month later and say we redid your numbers based on rules we didn't tell you about, and now you failed by £Xm so here's a big points deduction? Didn’t explain it very well, sorry. The starting point for clubs’ accounts should be FRS. The EFl should then have detailed rules which require adjustments as the EFL (clubs) see fit, with the result that the P&S return does not come straight off the audited accounts. Their rules already do this to a certain extent eg with connected party contracts. But to get closer to a level playing field they need to expand the scope of their own rules to stop people using loopholes which are permitted by FRS (eg the one Mel has described ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: That's a crazy approach though, unless I'm completely misunderstanding you. You can't have clubs submitting P&S returns and the EFL demanding they change them based on an unknown and undocumented set of rules. You'd have the situation where a club can submit a set of accounts that they believe meet FFP thresholds, that have been signed off by auditors, accepted by HMRC etc etc, and the EFL can come back a month later and say we redid your numbers based on rules we didn't tell you about, and now you failed by £Xm so here's a big points deduction? Isn’t that the situation we are now sat in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramslad1992 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Comrade 86, jono and Wolfie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) This is on Twitter: Edited August 24, 2021 by Ellafella Derby4Me, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta, Comrade 86 and 9 others 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Didn’t explain it very well, sorry. The starting point for clubs’ accounts should be FRS. The EFl should then have detailed rules which require adjustments as the EFL (clubs) see fit, with the result that the P&S return does not come straight off the audited accounts. Their rules already do this to a certain extent eg with connected party contracts. But to get closer to a level playing field they need to expand the scope of their own rules to stop people using loopholes which are permitted by FRS (eg the one Mel has described ) That's basically what I said though. It doesn't need to be a completely new accounting code written from scratch, but if they're writing a whole load of new rules on top of the existing ones, then everything I said still applies - they still need proper consultations to write those rules, to pay in-house auditors to sign off on clubs accounts, proper enforcement and the clubs to pay for it etc etc. They either need to document and publish *exactly* what they want clubs to do, or just leave it alone and trust that the accountants and auditors know what they're doing. 11 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Isn’t that the situation we are now sat in? Yeah, I read it as Kevin suggesting we make that the default process for everyone, but I think we had slightly crossed wires. kevinhectoring and Sparkle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake n Bake Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ellafella said: This is on Twitter: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Just now, Shake n Bake said: I’m not saying it’s fact - just an illustration of what’s flying around. Shake n Bake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ellafella said: I’m not saying it’s fact - just an illustration of what’s flying around. Same stuff that has been flying around for about two years now, 99% of it was pushed out of the rear end of a cow. Tamworthram, Ellafella, RadioactiveWaste and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, Ellafella said: This is on Twitter: That post seems to have been submitted by somebody called Sean Seal. Seems a bit Crazy to me, as if we're never gonna survive unless..... RoyMac5, 24Charlie, richgee1976 and 10 others 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lander Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, Shake n Bake said: Live footage of Rooney trying to locate some new players that we can sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramslad1992 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Lander said: Live footage of Rooney trying to locate some new players that we can sign. Connor Sammon on a loan until CKR is fit again? ? Will Hughes Hair, archram, Ellafella and 3 others 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 44 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: That's a crazy approach though, unless I'm completely misunderstanding you. You can't have clubs submitting P&S returns and the EFL demanding they change them based on an unknown and undocumented set of rules. You'd have the situation where a club can submit a set of accounts that they believe meet FFP thresholds, that have been signed off by auditors, accepted by HMRC etc etc, and the EFL can come back a month later and say we redid your numbers based on rules we didn't tell you about, and now you failed by £Xm so here's a big points deduction? Isn’t this almost the exact situation we found ourselves in? I mean, we even had the EFL sign them off and then come back years later and want them redone. They even had press release stating they were disappointed they couldn’t retrospectively give us a points deduction and relegate us. The EFL are completely cowboys. The Scarlet Pimpernel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Ram Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Steve How Hard? said: That post seems to have been submitted by somebody called Sean Seal. Seems a bit Crazy to me, as if we're never gonna survive unless..... I struggle to understand him sometimes, his brother Ron is much more adherent. RadioactiveWaste, Adslegend, Ram-Alf and 6 others 1 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Dan_Ram said: I struggle to understand him sometimes, his brother Ron is much more adherent. I'd prefer it if they both just varnished off the face of the earth. jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Ambitious said: Isn’t this almost the exact situation we found ourselves in? I mean, we even had the EFL sign them off and then come back years later and want them redone. They even had press release stating they were disappointed they couldn’t retrospectively give us a points deduction and relegate us. The EFL are completely cowboys. Saved me posting the same thing. I agree, it is exactly the position we found ourselves in. Its good sometimes to go back and touch base as it all almost gets lost in the detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_ram Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said: That post seems to have been submitted by somebody called Sean Seal. Seems a bit Crazy to me, as if we're never gonna survive unless..... ...we sign Danny (Kiss from a) Rose?! ITK?? Steve How Hard? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Red_ram said: ...we sign Danny (Kiss from a) Rose?! ITK?? ...or Kiss from a Roos? Pearl Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lander Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ramslad1992 said: Connor Sammon on a loan until CKR is fit again? ? Say no more. BathRam72, Ramslad1992, Kinder and 8 others 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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