Filing our accounts

[Van der MoodHoover]

Efl hoping to quietly bury this issue perhaps, to avoid inflaming the permed one. 

[i-Ram]

Perhaps Morris and the EFL are playing a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. It’s as good a guess as any on here. 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

The EFL want us relegated, theyve made that much clear already.

[Ghost of Clough]

52 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Saying all this, and I can't quite believe it didn't occur to me before, but wouldn't we potentially fall foul of the P&S period between 13-16 and possibly 14-17 as the ground sale doesn't come into it. 

2013-14 - £7m loss
2014-15 - £10.1m loss
2015-16 - £14.7m loss - resubmitted accounts. 
£31.8m pound loss (so if the accounts for 15-16 increase by £7.2m which I'd imagine will be close then we could fall foul here)
2016-17 - £7.9m loss - resubmitted accounts. 
£32.7m pound loss (again, if the accounts from 15/16 and 16/17 increase by £6.3m which I'd imagine almost inevitable then we would fall foul here). 

I think I disregarded the previous seasons because it's only the three year window we have to publish the accounts for. When, in actual fact, it's going to be the years before the stadium sale come into it that we will be sanctioned for. 

 

The 3 years to 2017 is what I was worried about more than any otherto be honest.

However, different rules were in place for the first 2 years of that period (when in was FFP and judged over 1 year). I believe the 3 years to 2018 was actually the first 3 year period. I'll double check later

[Gaspode]

Any delay is simply down to the EFL having to ask Gibson whether he’ll accept what’s been submitted…and what punishment he’d like them to impose on us next…regardless of whether we’ve breached FFP or not

[jono]

13 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

Any delay is simply down to the EFL having to ask Gibson whether he’ll accept what’s been submitted…and what punishment he’d like them to impose on us next…regardless of whether we’ve breached FFP or not

It does feel like that sometimes. Undoubtedly there is a cadre in the EFL with a “gotcha” mentality they need to see realised; but on the other side there will be some moderate voices, they will all know that if any sanction is spiteful/dodgy then Derby will go to law. 
 

I reckon it’s in the balance 

[RoyMac5]

48 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Perhaps Morris and the EFL are playing a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. It’s as good a guess as any on here. 

More like "rock paper scissors lizard Spock"! #COYR

[Gaspode]

20 minutes ago, jono said:

It does feel like that sometimes. Undoubtedly there is a cadre in the EFL with a “gotcha” mentality they need to see realised; but on the other side there will be some moderate voices, they will all know that if any sanction is spiteful/dodgy then Derby will go to law. 
 

I reckon it’s in the balance 

I may be wrong but I seem to remember someone saying that going ‘legal’ wasn’t an option - we agree to abide by the EFL rules as part of our membership of the League which means we can appeal decisions but only according to their rules, not via the law courts…..

[IronRam 140.6]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Honestly wouldn't surprise me if we're fine with straight-line amortization anyway, but we're insisting on submitting basically what we submitted before because it's a matter of principle now.

Is the jungle drums rumour I have heard via the wider football community. 

It's sounds like it's a similar argument as to the covid one as to when we should or shouldn't have locked down etc etc etc. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I am holding hope the EFL finally use common sense and just look to move on from this whole thing, maybe we get another suspended points deduction that becomes activated should we file our accounts late again.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by MackworthRamIsGod

[Derbados]

I don’t think the accounts will breach p&s if the additional stadium valuation can be added into the accounts. 

I would imagine the EFL knew we would be in breach using the new standard method of amortisation, but were then shocked (as were we most likely) when the additional stadium valuation could be included into the recalculated accounts. 

My money is on that Derby have gone “there you go, compliant, even with the straight line method, now stick it up your a***” and the EFL are trying desperately to find a loophole or legal precedent so we fall foul and can’t use it as I’d imagine they were super confident of hammering us once we submitted. 

I would imagine Steve Gibson is throwing every kind of tantrum imaginable currently 

 

[rammieib]

We only have to resubmit accounts using straight line depreciation to the EFL don't we. Do we technically actually need to re-submit accounts to companies house? (I know we need to submit for the last two missing years I think it is)

[davenportram]

What happens if when we submit them we are within Financial rules and the EFL have to say oops we was wrong. Any compensation?

[duncanjwitham]

18 minutes ago, davenportram said:

What happens if when we submit them we are within Financial rules and the EFL have to say oops we was wrong. Any compensation?

The EFL issue a strongly worded statement saying how disappointed they are, and that they will be looking to close the “haven’t actually broken any rules” loophole as soon as possible to prevent any more flagrant “going about their business in a perfectly legal way” from naughty old Derby County.

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

19 minutes ago, davenportram said:

What happens if when we submit them we are within Financial rules and the EFL have to say oops we was wrong. Any compensation?

Look at the state of us, we’ve been punished as it is wether we break P&S or not. If our new set of books are compliant it will take this whole saga to a completely different level of farcical. A club dragged through the mud and pushed to the edge of oblivion for absolutely nothing. 

[Ghost of Clough]

54 minutes ago, rammieib said:

We only have to resubmit accounts using straight line depreciation to the EFL don't we. Do we technically actually need to re-submit accounts to companies house? (I know we need to submit for the last two missing years I think it is)

No, we need to resubmit compliant accounts. That can be with a straight line method, or a suitable alternative method 

[Rambalin]

1 hour ago, Gaspode said:

I may be wrong but I seem to remember someone saying that going ‘legal’ wasn’t an option - we agree to abide by the EFL rules as part of our membership of the League which means we can appeal decisions but only according to their rules, not via the law courts…..

That's right but has nobody has any idea what the rules are because they change them on a whim, it would be interesting too see what would happen if they did. 

 

 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

3 hours ago, Spanish said:

hmm..   straightline accounts compliant but hang it, this is a point of 'principle', so we are happy to stay in embargo land as long as possible

My theory / best guess is that our straight line method keeps 'just about' within the limits, but once submitted leaves us absolutely no room for manoeuvre and guarantees us living off scraps for the next few years, whereas...

 ..what we want to do is submit our new accounts using that extra £30m from the PPS sale and use the wriggle room we gain from it to remain competitive (but hopefully a bit more sensibly!) in the market.

If things don't work out how we want them to we can still bring in a few frees in an effort to ensure we survive, but if it does go how we want we can better support Rooney with the players we feel he needs to thrive.

[hintonsboots]

3 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Efl hoping to quietly bury this issue perhaps, to avoid inflaming the permed one. 

Steady on mate.

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

No, we need to resubmit compliant accounts. That can be with a straight line method, or a suitable alternative method 

To the EFL.

To HMRC we did submit compliant accounts.