EFL Verdict

[Premier ram]

8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Given Rooney's erratic formation and style changes  last season then it's not unreasonable to suggest that he might use one of the options he did use last season this season. He shifted constantly playing a mixture of 3-5-2, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 with a range of different styles. It's anyone's guess what he'll do this year. 

I don't want to sound like an arse but you're not a professional scout and the lad hasn't yet scored a goal in the football league. Plenty of players score bundles in under 23 games and have good stints at non-league sides then never make the championship grade. He shouldn't really be a part of the first team squad but should at his age and experience be loaned out to league 2/1 and see if he can make the step there before having him on the bench. The lad needs game time at his age anyway rather than sitting on our bench as what will likely be an ineffective substitute. 

Do we even know if Davies is fit enough to play a single game of football? In his interview, he said that the medical team didn't think he'd last 15 minutes out there... It seems silly not to bring in a 3rd centre back given that he's played 10 minutes in the past year and he's a badly ageing cb. Mcdonald had 3 starts last season I believe and a few sub appearances (according to his profile on Derby's website), Ebosele had a few sub appearances from memory so it's maybe not the worst idea to bring in a backup but certainly not first on the list I admit. 

I don't know what wages forsyth is on tbh but it's not a bad idea to bring in someone who can challenge when Buchanan does go off the boil as he did last year. Again though not the biggest priority but i think it's something that should be happening. 

Being involved in 34 goals in 3 seasons is precisely the definition of an average inconsistent championship winger. It's scoring or assisting an average of 11 a season which is basically 1 in 4. That's exactly the type of player he is... 
Tbh, I'd offload Roos and get someone else in yes as I've never rated him at this level. This club last season did have an issue with poor goalkeeping. 

I'd be looking at loaning out some of the younger players like watson, Stretton, Duncan, Dixon, Bardell, Ebosele for them to get some first team experience lower down the pecking order and bring in some more experienced players. The difference between reading and us is that reading just missed out on the top 6, we just avoided relegation. The difference in quality is quite stark and that's why we need some substantial changes. Pretending that our squad with 5 or 6 changes that match what we had last year will suddenly be similar to reading's is unrealistic. Yes, it will be similar in numbers but not in quality which is the key. 

I think a lot of our differences stem from how we assess the quality of our younger players. I've done this to death in the past but I don't think they're as good as people think. Currently, the squad has no recognised fit cb and one very old striker who ran completely out of steam last season and doesn't have a track record of scoring many goals. Our midfield that no-one is discussing any major improvement to was completely bereft most of the season contributing nothing in attack and offering the defence little protection either. This team didn't average a point per game and it was a miracle we stayed up- it's probably the worst Derby team I've seen since the phil brown years quite honestly. 

Louie Watsons going to light this season up for the Rams , a star in the making in my opinion

[RadioactiveWaste]

13 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

People only take him seriously because he has a bit of a posh voice.

Works for the prime minister.....

[hintonsboots]

4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Works for the prime minister.....

Thought he worked for Talksport ?

[Jimbo Ram]

15 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Works for the prime minister.....

People take him seriously ?

[jono]

I have mixed feelings about this season. I am dreading the final chapters of  EFL’s vendetta aimed entirely at getting us a points deduction. It sickens my fair play gut .. they, for whatever motive, want to kick us while we are on the floor. It’s toxic. We have gained no advantage from anything we may or may not have done. The almost visible hatred that emanates from that organisation is palpable.

That said, we are where we are, with a thread bare squad but some talented young players mixed with some old soldiers. There’s a kind of spirit that can come from that. Just maybe some of the young ones really can step up. Maybe Wayne is genuinely learning on the job and will find some magic. I don’t think for a minute we are looking at play offs but I think we might just find something that stops us being whipping boys. You know what … adversity can just provide the spark that makes a team. Jeez and with the restrictions being dropped .. I might just use my flexible friend for my season ticket .. I’ll tell you what, whoever is in our team, if they turn up and fight then I am right behind them. 

[Ghost of Clough]

26 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Given Rooney's erratic formation and style changes  last season then it's not unreasonable to suggest that he might use one of the options he did use last season this season. He shifted constantly playing a mixture of 3-5-2, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 with a range of different styles. It's anyone's guess what he'll do this year. 

I don't want to sound like an arse but you're not a professional scout and the lad hasn't yet scored a goal in the football league. Plenty of players score bundles in under 23 games and have good stints at non-league sides then never make the championship grade. He shouldn't really be a part of the first team squad but should at his age and experience be loaned out to league 2/1 and see if he can make the step there before having him on the bench. The lad needs game time at his age anyway rather than sitting on our bench as what will likely be an ineffective substitute. 

Do we even know if Davies is fit enough to play a single game of football? In his interview, he said that the medical team didn't think he'd last 15 minutes out there... It seems silly not to bring in a 3rd centre back given that he's played 10 minutes in the past year and he's a badly ageing cb. Mcdonald had 3 starts last season I believe and a few sub appearances (according to his profile on Derby's website), Ebosele had a few sub appearances from memory so it's maybe not the worst idea to bring in a backup but certainly not first on the list I admit. 

I don't know what wages forsyth is on tbh but it's not a bad idea to bring in someone who can challenge when Buchanan does go off the boil as he did last year. Again though not the biggest priority but i think it's something that should be happening. 

Being involved in 34 goals in 3 seasons is precisely the definition of an average inconsistent championship winger. It's scoring or assisting an average of 11 a season which is basically 1 in 4. That's exactly the type of player he is... 
Tbh, I'd offload Roos and get someone else in yes as I've never rated him at this level. This club last season did have an issue with poor goalkeeping. 

I'd be looking at loaning out some of the younger players like watson, Stretton, Duncan, Dixon, Bardell, Ebosele for them to get some first team experience lower down the pecking order and bring in some more experienced players. The difference between reading and us is that reading just missed out on the top 6, we just avoided relegation. The difference in quality is quite stark and that's why we need some substantial changes. Pretending that our squad with 5 or 6 changes that match what we had last year will suddenly be similar to reading's is unrealistic. Yes, it will be similar in numbers but not in quality which is the key. 

I think a lot of our differences stem from how we assess the quality of our younger players. I've done this to death in the past but I don't think they're as good as people think. Currently, the squad has no recognised fit cb and one very old striker who ran completely out of steam last season and doesn't have a track record of scoring many goals. Our midfield that no-one is discussing any major improvement to was completely bereft most of the season contributing nothing in attack and offering the defence little protection either. This team didn't average a point per game and it was a miracle we stayed up- it's probably the worst Derby team I've seen since the phil brown years quite honestly. 

I may not be a scout, but I believe I'm a very good judge of player in our academy. Over the past 10 years or so I can only recall being wrong about 2 players 'making it' in our first team - Callum Ball and Brad Foster - and there's still time for my call on Foster to be proven right. Well, I guess you can add Whittaker to the list too. From as far back as the Rowett season I identified Knight as a player who would make an impact on the first team (he was 16/17 at the time). Most people hadn't even heard his name until the end of the 18/19 season when he appeared in the playoff squads.

 

You don't like the comparison with Reading, despite their squad fighting relegation for the majority of the previous season (they only made 5 signings that summer, 3 on loan and 1 from L1).. so here's one with a Derby side which made a late challenge for top 6 2 seasons ago. Only 5 gaps, so chuck in a 6th summer signing in wherever you see fit.

[jono]

34 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

Louie Watsons going to light this season up for the Rams , a star in the making in my opinion

I have no idea if he will but if we really want to call ourselves fans .. then that is exactly what we should be thinking and hoping for ???

[ram59]

I think that there is a lot of negativity over Davies' potential contribution on here, if he stays.

He actually made 13 appearances last season, including one in the league cup. He suffered that bad injury, which I thought would finish his career at his age but definitely would put him out until next season. It says something about his physical and mental strengths, that he managed to return to help out in that crucial final game.

Now let's look at what he can offer the team for next season, he's too slow, but wasn't Darren Moore even slower? Moore showed that experience can carry you a long in that position in this league, during our promotion year. I think that Davies and Mengi could prove to be a decent partnership in the centre of defence.

[jono]

7 hours ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Out of recruiting in last 12m is actually was not that bad. The worst signings were not costly mistakes which is key.

HIT = Byrne, CKR, Gregory, Clarke, Marshall

OK = Joz, Roberts, Mengi, Edmundson.

MISS = Te Wierik, Baningme, Ibe 

 

TBH I’d say Joz was a hit .. yes “ok” in terms of what he did, but you and others can see the potential and like Byrne he is an incoming who has at the very minimum held his value. 

[Leeds Ram]

34 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I may not be a scout, but I believe I'm a very good judge of player in our academy. Over the past 10 years or so I can only recall being wrong about 2 players 'making it' in our first team - Callum Ball and Brad Foster - and there's still time for my call on Foster to be proven right. Well, I guess you can add Whittaker to the list too. From as far back as the Rowett season I identified Knight as a player who would make an impact on the first team (he was 16/17 at the time). Most people hadn't even heard his name until the end of the 18/19 season when he appeared in the playoff squads.

 

You don't like the comparison with Reading, despite their squad fighting relegation for the majority of the previous season (they only made 5 signings that summer, 3 on loan and 1 from L1).. so here's one with a Derby side which made a late challenge for top 6 2 seasons ago. Only 5 gaps, so chuck in a 6th summer signing in wherever you see fit.

You may think you're a very good judge of talent and that may well be correct. But there is no evidence Stretton can be relied upon as a goalscorer at a football league level let alone the second division. 

Reading finished 14th on 56 points the previous season to the last not 21st on 44 points. If we'd achieved 44 points in that same season we'd have been relegated bottom. It's not quite the same is it. Last season we were as poor as we have been this century let's be honest. 

Even in the previous Derby squad we can see a much much stronger defensive framework for us to build upon with both Martin and waghorn being strong options going forward. Maybe the youngsters will put last season behind them and be good championship players but I'm not convinced personally. 

[sage]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I may not be a scout, but I believe I'm a very good judge of player in our academy. Over the past 10 years or so I can only recall being wrong about 2 players 'making it' in our first team - Callum Ball and Brad Foster - and there's still time for my call on Foster to be proven right. Well, I guess you can add Whittaker to the list too. From as far back as the Rowett season I identified Knight as a player who would make an impact on the first team (he was 16/17 at the time). Most people hadn't even heard his name until the end of the 18/19 season when he appeared in the playoff squads.

 

You don't like the comparison with Reading, despite their squad fighting relegation for the majority of the previous season (they only made 5 signings that summer, 3 on loan and 1 from L1).. so here's one with a Derby side which made a late challenge for top 6 2 seasons ago. Only 5 gaps, so chuck in a 6th summer signing in wherever you see fit.

Vernam was the one I thought would definitely play regularly at championship level or higher, but hasn't reached those heights yet 

[Wolfie]

Does the EFL Umbongo lift when we submit the late accounts or when they are analysed and we are judged to have passed/failed?

The bits I've seen only talk about submission of accounts

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Does the EFL Umbongo lift when we submit the late accounts or when they are analysed and we are judged to have passed/failed?

The bits I've seen only talk about submission of accounts

I think if we submit the overdue accounts we come out, however, I can imagine the EFL being very keep to slap back down if they think there is anything to charge us with in the accounts.

[Sparkle]

21 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I think if we submit the overdue accounts we come out, however, I can imagine the EFL being very keep to slap back down if they think there is anything to charge us with in the accounts.

I would have thought we would need to submit all of the five years outstanding - three that are to be re-done and the last two 

[Carnero]

11 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I would have thought we would need to submit all of the five years outstanding - three that are to be re-done and the last two 

I think you're confusing the company accounts with the P&S submissions.

1) We need to redo our P&S submission 17/18.

2) We need to submit overdue company accounts to Companies House for years ending 30 June 2019 (due June 2020) & 30 June 2020 (due April 2021).

3) We need to submit our finalised P&S returns for 18/19, 19/20 & 20/21 to the EFL.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I would have thought we would need to submit all of the five years outstanding - three that are to be re-done and the last two 

It should be submission of overdue accounts to release us from embargo.

At the end of the day, an embargo is used to ensure a club is being ran within the limits. If you're close to failing, you'll be put under a soft embargo to ensure you stay within limits, and if the accounts show you've exceeded those limits, you'll be put under a hard embargo to once again be compliant. 
For the upcoming 21/22 season, that's the 18/19 season accounts onward (1 July 2018 onward). The accounts we need to resubmit do not fall within that period.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Carnero said:

I think you're confusing the company accounts with the P&S submissions.

1) We need to redo our P&S submission 17/18.

2) We need to submit overdue company accounts to Companies House for years ending 30 June 2019 (due June 2020) & 30 June 2020 (due April 2021).

3) We need to submit our finalised P&S returns for 18/19, 19/20 & 20/21 to the EFL.

The confusion comes from the statements from the DC, the Club and EFL. For exmaple, the club's statement says we need to submit re-stated accounts AND revised [P&S] calculations.

This is based on the DC's decision where "Annual Accounts" AND "revised [P&S] calculations" are to be submitted

[cheron85]

16 hours ago, ram59 said:

I think that there is a lot of negativity over Davies' potential contribution on here, if he stays.

He actually made 13 appearances last season, including one in the league cup. He suffered that bad injury, which I thought would finish his career at his age but definitely would put him out until next season. It says something about his physical and mental strengths, that he managed to return to help out in that crucial final game.

Now let's look at what he can offer the team for next season, he's too slow, but wasn't Darren Moore even slower? Moore showed that experience can carry you a long in that position in this league, during our promotion year. I think that Davies and Mengi could prove to be a decent partnership in the centre of defence.

Paul McGrath was 36/37 when he came to us wasn't he? Had no knees, didn't train and could barely move

Appreciate quality-wise Davies isn't in his league but the lad is smart, he still seems to be fit enough to train every day, he's good in the air still, is a commending presence and lends confidence to those around him - He's a good presence around the squad at the very least 

[Spanish]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It should be submission of overdue accounts to release us from embargo.

At the end of the day, an embargo is used to ensure a club is being ran within the limits. If you're close to failing, you'll be put under a soft embargo to ensure you stay within limits, and if the accounts show you've exceeded those limits, you'll be put under a hard embargo to once again be compliant. 
For the upcoming 21/22 season, that's the 18/19 season accounts onward (1 July 2018 onward). The accounts we need to resubmit do not fall within that period.

@carnero stated the requirements accurately I think

[BucksRam]

Just seen the following on a FB thread under a Derbyshire Live post:

"While I don’t doubt that the EFL will seek to impose a points deduction if Derby’s accumulated losses in the revised accounts for the three year period exceed £39m, they’d be legally ‘courageous’ (in the Sir Humphrey Appleby sense of the term) to do so.

The EFL approved Derby’s accounts for each of those three years and the player amortisation policy was expressly called out.

The legal principle of estoppel would, therefore, seem to apply, especially as it’s readily surmised that Derby’s financial actions in the second and third years were discretionary and predicated on the EFL’s acceptance of the prior years’ accounts.

If, for instance, Derby’s accumulated losses in the first and second years were (say) £30m, the club could easily argue they could have curtailed third year expenses to keep that year’s loss below £9m.

Unless the EFL wants to claim that that Derby procured their approval of those accounts via material misrepresentation (given they apparently accepted the accounts unconditionally), one would think an injunction against a penalty for a retrospective breach of FFP would succeed.

The EFL may think they’re above the law but they’re not".

Anyone one here with more legal nous than me (that's almost everyone then) comment on this? Tosh, or does it hold any credence?