Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

If they accept it, then we must have broken a written rule. Mel must have been lying that we complied with all the efl rules then.

but then again the Administrators have nothing to lose by giving in and taking the max hit.

Wouldn’t it be nice to see a simple breakdown of which rules we have broken and the penalty for breaking each.

 

If it's an agreed outcome we may not get the full details publiclly available, but you'd think there'd a be a joint wording agreed. Perhaps something like:

"The recalculated P&S information produced by DCFC as instructed by DC2 showed a breach of P&S spending limits. Given the unusual nature of the investigation and breaches relating to previous seasons and corrective actions were not taken at the time they ordinarily would have been taken, it has been agreed with the club (in line with EFL rule 85) that a penalty of -9 points will be applied this season, with a further 3 points suspended, pending future conduct. A business plan has also been agreed with the club to amend it's current and expected position with regards to P&S. The agreement represents what both parties have agreed is a final conclusion to the issue. We thank the administrators of DCFC for coming to agreement with the EFL to resolve the issue and wish them every chance in securing new ownership and a long term future for Derby County."

[1967RAMS]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

But the As are going to conduct an auction    
 

I think that if MSD was wanting to buy administration would have been avoided 

Why???? The debt to Morris and others  was still on our books and the EFL punishment not likely to resolved with Morris still around. This way they have certainty that all issues will be legally resolved prior to putting pen to paper 

[YouRams]

31 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He has invested a fortune. 

No doubt about it Mel Morris put his money where his mouth is and backed Derby to make the Premier League

Going into admin doesn't change that. Neither does the fact he spent huge amounts of his own money on Derby change the fact that we are now in administration and suffering because of his management 

As often is the case in the real world people aren't always angels or demons. 

People have to be mature enough to judge people as they see them and not get caught up in any hysteria. Don't start doing stupid things. 

I keep battling with myself because on one hand he’s left us right in the **** through years of mismanagement and fallouts with the EFL. And handled his leaving awfully with no communication to the manager and staff.

 

On the other he’s not taking any money back owed to him from the club and he has pumped millions into us during his tenure, also he’s put us into administration after the transfer window allowing us to potentially keep our players, so I don’t believe he’s just wiped his hands with us and hasn’t done what he believes is the best for Derby, just wish he’d of come out with a better apology and better communication then the feelings towards him wouldn’t be as bitter as they are. 
 

[Kingpin]

8 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

a long term future for Derby County."

?

[brady1993]

28 minutes ago, jono said:

I just feel it coming … we end up with minus 16 and just before we go down the EFL announce (regretfully ?) that after much research and diligence we are due another 9 from the beginning of next season. Surely someone dispassionate like an administrator must be able to get the EFL to be up front about what they want and what they are going to do about all sanctions for past deeds. They have months to do it. 

I know what you mean. I have two hopes though with MM out of the way the EFL ease off a little and with the massive total penalty we end up with this season combined with relegation sees that those who wanted a pound of flesh have it. The thing is as well at a certain point the EFL themselves will want it wrapped up, there are plenty other clubs that probably wouldn't be too happy right now to be investigated too closely.

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, YouRams said:

I keep battling with myself because on one hand he’s left us right in the **** through years of mismanagement and fallouts with the EFL. And handled his leaving awfully with no communication to the manager and staff.

 

On the other he’s not taking any money back owed to him from the club and he has pumped millions into us during his tenure, also he’s put us into administration after the transfer window allowing us to potentially keep our players, so I don’t believe he’s just wiped his hands with us and hasn’t done what he believes is the best for Derby, just wish he’d of come out with a better apology and better communication then the feelings towards him wouldn’t be as bitter as they are. 
 

I see where you're coming from.

I just feel the tragedy of it all is there was no need for it to have ended this way. So many different moments where a different decision could have left us without the baggage.

 

[Gringo]

1 minute ago, brady1993 said:

I know what you mean. I have two hopes though with MM out of the way the EFL ease off a little and with the massive total penalty we end up with this season combined with relegation sees that those who wanted a pound of flesh have it. The thing is as well at a certain point the EFL themselves will want it wrapped up, there are plenty other clubs that probably wouldn't be too happy right now to be investigated too closely.

Such as our close neighbours down the A52, they are borderline over £39 million for P&S with a lot hanging on this season and they have a squad of 199 to pay

[kevinhectoring]

4 minutes ago, 1967RAMS said:

Why???? The debt to Morris and others  was still on our books and the EFL punishment not likely to resolved with Morris still around. This way they have certainty that all issues will be legally resolved prior to putting pen to paper 

Well EFL had already offered 9 points (less than 21) and Mel would have smelt the coffee and waived his (unsecured ) claims. 

And if they were going to buy through administration MSD would I think have tried to set up a quick purchase to avoid extended costs/trauma. 

Let’s see. One point that supports your view is that I think it might be HMRC’s policy only to compromise claims after an insolvency event has occurred. And this would force administration even if Dell is the ultimate buyer 

[jono]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

If it's an agreed outcome we may not get the full details publiclly available, but you'd think there'd a be a joint wording agreed. Perhaps something like:

"The recalculated P&S information produced by DCFC as instructed by DC2 showed a breach of P&S spending limits. Given the unusual nature of the investigation and breaches relating to previous seasons and corrective actions were not taken at the time they ordinarily would have been taken, it has been agreed with the club (in line with EFL rule 85) that a penalty of -9 points will be applied this season, with a further 3 points suspended, pending future conduct. A business plan has also been agreed with the club to amend it's current and expected position with regards to P&S. The agreement represents what both parties have agreed is a final conclusion to the issue. We thank the administrators of DCFC for coming to agreement with the EFL to resolve the issue and wish them every chance in securing new ownership and a long term future for Derby County."

That is how it should be done by professionals. Are the EFL capable of acting like that ? Let’s see shall we .. the next 90 days are going to warrant one of those “we live in interesting times” comments. 
 

The thing that surprises me after several club failures like Wigan, Bolton and others under the cosh at various times, that the member clubs haven’t come out with demands that the EFL both enforce the rules and do it consistently and promptly. Why the silence from so many other clubs ? Yes a bit of spite directed at us, you’d expect that, but where are the sage heads who should be saying .. “you are our governing body, not a cross between the central committee and the SS” 

we really shouldn’t be talking about season after season deductions .. you did wrong .. here is the punishment. It seems intuitively wrong to say .. we are punishing you … now when you’ve finished serving that one, we are going to give you another. It really doesn’t sound proportional in any sense, regardless of it being Derby 

[sawley_ram]

1 minute ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Such as our close neighbours down the A52, they are borderline over £39 million for P&S with a lot hanging on this season and they have a squad of 199 to pay

Makes me laugh knowing how dire their own financials are -- it'll catch up with them. I bet they are loving all of this, which is sad but understandable given they've got n'owt else to be be happy about this season (and the last, and the last...)

[YouRams]

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I see where you're coming from.

I just feel the tragedy of it all is there was no need for it to have ended this way. So many different moments where a different decision could have left us without the baggage.

 

He’ll 100% regret turning down the £50m American offer back in 2019 now. He was hedging his bets we’d get promoted and he’d sell us for more, and let’s be honest no honest person could begrudge him for wanting to make some of his money back he’s a business man at the end of the day, but his bets gone majorly wrong left us in the **** and him massively out of pocket. He’ll be remembered for all the wrong reasons and he only has himself to blame, he’d of got more respect admitting that rather than blaming everything else. 

[jono]

30 minutes ago, 1967RAMS said:

The EFL are dealing with professionals now and not Morris. They will give us due punishment and we will have it legally tied up. Personally I don’t care if it’s 4 or 44 as I think we will be in league one regardless. For the first time in months I feel the bottom of this mess may be in sight. At least when we finally get there. The only way is up COYR

I really hope you are right. We have breached .. in the first instance we deserve sanction and with the Admin, we deserve relegation.

We don’t deserve to be repeatedly kicked when on the floor. 

[Duracell]

53 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He has invested a fortune. 

No doubt about it Mel Morris put his money where his mouth is and backed Derby to make the Premier League

Going into admin doesn't change that. Neither does the fact he spent huge amounts of his own money on Derby change the fact that we are now in administration and suffering because of his management 

As often is the case in the real world people aren't always angels or demons. 

People have to be mature enough to judge people as they see them and not get caught up in any hysteria. Don't start doing stupid things. 

Morris' biggest failing is that he is a fan. He ran the club like a fan.

Didn't think rationally. Gambled on short-term success based on in-the-moment excitement.

My old man is usually a fairly logical and reasonable person, but he's unbearable when we lose. Or win. We lose, and he will pipe out the "this is the worst Derby side I have ever seen" line almost every time, win, and we're going up. 

Pretty confident that if you gave my Dad a half a billion quid, he'd also have spaffed £200m, stormed into the dressing room on several occasions, and probably would have sacked Steve Mac another four times just to make sure.

This does not exonerate Morris. His lack of leadership in crisis will rightly draw a lot of criticism. He may be bowing out, but to do so with such a reluctance to admit mistakes or show any vulnerability or emotion to the fans and staff it's what's getting people upset.

Morris ran the club like a fan who was determined to play the game as he wished it to be, not the way it actually was. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Duracell

[1967RAMS]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Well EFL had already offered 9 points (less than 21) and Mel would have smelt the coffee and waived his (unsecured ) claims. 

And if they were going to buy through administration MSD would I think have tried to set up a quick purchase to avoid extended costs/trauma. 

Let’s see. One point that supports your view is that I think it might be HMRC’s policy only to compromise claims after an insolvency event has occurred. And this would force administration even if Dell is the ultimate buyer 

Nine points for the last set of re-submitted accounts. The latest 3 years are bound to break ffp too I suspect and incur further punishment in coming seasons. The administration team will clean the slate. Painful now but short and sharp, rather than death by a thousand cuts 

[Miggins]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

And what a fool for saying it publicly instead of just to the players. There are those on the EFL board who want to see us relegated and if the anti-Derby contingent begin to think we have a chance of staying up they will push for a points deal that ensures relegation 

Have to disagree @kevinhectoring. He may have been unwise, although I don't think so,  but he is no fool. He has laid down a challenge to the players and shared that with the fans and if they manage to pull it off they should be applauded. I really hope that the EFL would not be so petty and if they are as vindictive as you think they are then there must be some form of recourse for us and shame on them.

Of course, you could be right, but at present I prefer to think that the EFL is not made up entirely of Derby haters. 

[Retro_RAM]

I obviously don't want us to go down to League 1 but it is a seriously possibility, however glass half full if you look at the clubs that have gone down and had a stint in League 1 bounced back better for it Leeds, Leicester, Southampton, Wolves to name a few, this could also be our turning point.

We've been saying for years we need a squad / club reset, after being a nearly or top half champion club for over a decade. Well we've got that reset now and when all the dust has settled and the tears have dried, let's do it right this time...

[RoyMac5]

What's this all about?

 

[Indy]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

What's this all about?

 

Admin points deduction can be appealed if shown to be force majeure and out of their control. I think this explains Mel repeatedly blaming COVID and saying we would have been able to trade through but for the pandemic. I note that the administrators statement yesterday made the same argument in the very first paragraph. 

[strawhillram]

47 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

If it's an agreed outcome we may not get the full details publiclly available, but you'd think there'd a be a joint wording agreed. Perhaps something like:

"The recalculated P&S information produced by DCFC as instructed by DC2 showed a breach of P&S spending limits. Given the unusual nature of the investigation and breaches relating to previous seasons and corrective actions were not taken at the time they ordinarily would have been taken, it has been agreed with the club (in line with EFL rule 85) that a penalty of -9 points will be applied this season, with a further 3 points suspended, pending future conduct. A business plan has also been agreed with the club to amend it's current and expected position with regards to P&S. The agreement represents what both parties have agreed is a final conclusion to the issue. We thank the administrators of DCFC for coming to agreement with the EFL to resolve the issue and wish them every chance in securing new ownership and a long term future for Derby County."

Í like it but please can you change the -9 to -2 pts. Then we have an agreement

[Miggins]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's this all about?

 

What a roller coaster of a day. I feel like I have been ridden hard and put away wet!! ?