El DerbyCo

[Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

Now that's where me and Marco differ, because I don't think we deserve success any more than them poor Oldham fans who also travel the hard miles every week with far less reward than us! 

It's a good phrase to get a few likes, but it's as banal as the statements the players come out with in the post match interviews.

Sorry to disagree, that's impossible.

[Ghost of Clough]

23 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

The idea that it's harder for promoted clubs to compete in the Premier League these days is a bit of a myth. I heard a stat on a podcast the other day which suggested that very little has changed from 20 years ago in terms of promoted clubs surviving.

Granted, there's a difference between surviving and attempting to break into the 'Bix Six'. But I'd be interested in knowing if it really is as unattainable as people make out. I think people sometimes say things to fit their narrative of "football isn't what it used to be".

Now, the one thing that would make it almost impossible to compete with the best would be the European Super League. Duck that poo.

Duration promoted clubs spent in PL based on year they were promoted:

00/01 - 13, 11, 11
01/02 - 18*, 4, 1 
02/03 - 7, 1, 1
03/04 - 2, 1, 1
04/05 - 8, 6, 1
05/06 - 2, 1, 1
06/07 - 10, 1, 1
07/08 -10, 2, 1
08/09 - 3, 2, 1
09/10 - 8, 6, 1
10/11 - 7, 3, 2
11/12 - 9*, 9*, 1
12/13 - 8*, 2, 1
13/14 - 7*, 1, 1
14/15 - 5, 5, 1
15/16 - 4, 1, 1
16/17 - 4*, 4*, 2
17/18 - 3*, 1, 1
18/19 - 2*, 2*, 1
19/20 - 1*, 1*, 1*

* = Still in PL

They either stay up for a good 10 years, or go straight back down (1 or 2 years). Same pattern over the past 10 years. Typically, it's the bigger clubs (those with more income) who survive the longest - Newcastle, West Ham, Villa. Whereas it's the smaller clubs who go straight back down - Sheff United, Blackpool, Hull, Cardiff, etc... Hardly surprising news that a club with more money has a better chance of survival.

As I've mentioned in other threads in the past, in season 1, our budget would be on par with Palace, Norwich, Watford. Our revenue would exceed that of West Brom, Burnley, Sheff United, and Fulham. 
In year 2 or 3, once we start earning more through sponsors, we would make the small jump up to being on par with the likes of Southampton. 
Financially, breaking into the top 6 is an almost impossible task at this point. Leicester (soon to be 3 top 6 finishes in the last 6 years) aren't even half way to reaching that point. It would take a couple of years in Europe for us to join the 'next 6' of Leeds, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, Everton and West Ham.

[ariotofmyown]

Pros:

He apparently has the means to get the funds to buy the club.

He has a link to an ex-President of Real Madrid.

Cons:

He seems to have little to no experience in a similar position, either within sport or elsewhere.

He has some strange links to far right parties, but hopefully this is just his name being used by them without his consent.

He is close friend of this Southall guy, who seems the epitome of a terrible football parasite.

He said he would be making no comment until the deal was done, then was straight onto the media saying he'd spend 20 million on a new player if they were worth it.

 

It could turn out that all those cons do not materialise and he's actually a savvy operator with access to huge sums of money. But there isn't much so far to rationally be hopeful about.

 

[kevinhectoring]

44 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said:

Anyway, Erik, treat our mum well, she's high maintenance & her kids are very demanding !!

I hope Erik and Wayne don’t compete for our mum’s attention   

[Carnero]

1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

He is close friend of this Southall guy

"Close friend"

Do we actually know that? Are all friends/associates to be classed as "close friends" for the purposes of highlighting a point?

3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

then was straight onto the media saying he'd spend 20 million on a new player if they were worth it.

He didn't say that on the interview I saw on sky, he merely said that they have money and will spend on the club what is required to be successful without being reckless. "If it takes £20m or if it takes £150m then ok"

It's always better to listen to an actual interview than go on a headline tweet.

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Why should you hold your owner to account? Who else is going to do it if not supporters? The local media?

Why is it so different to holding your local politicians to account, for example? Both have sizeable control and say over the future of something you care massively about, be that your local community or your football club. I’m really surprised that you think fans shouldn’t play this role and, even more so, that you think this “smacks of entitlement.”

Look at what has happened to some of the oldest clubs in this country under some stewardships. Were Bolton supporters, concerned about the takeover by Ken Anderson, smacked with entitlement?

It’s very easy to say “just wait until he’s done something” but what you’re doing there is essentially trying to make any of his previous completely irrelevant - but how can it be irrelevant when, at this stage, that is all we have to go on!

I think being vocal about the future of your football club and calling things out when you see them is a better option than just packing it in and saying: “Huh, maybe professional football just isn’t for me? ?‍♂️“

Maybe so, but I honestly don't know anything about the guy, never heard of him or this Matt Southall he is mates with (I thought Southall was an ex- Everton goalie!) These days everyone is an amateur detective and a lot of what I see on twitter and here is a feeding frenzy of trying to find out every possible bad thing about him and condemn him for it.

I don't think football is a democracy, no, in fact if I take a step back I think it is probably run by some people who are pretty corrupt. But I obviously don't care about that enough to boycott it any more than I don't care enough to stop buying stuff off Amazon or watching Sky Sports. So I suck it up and generally keep my mouth shut on this side of the game.

I don't think the comparison with politicians works well. Politicians are publicly elected officials placed there to represent us, but football club owners? No they are the guys with the money and/or the ambition. Football clubs are private companies accountable to shareholders not to fans, who at best are the ever-woolley "stakeholders". 

Again, I return to the statement that if you find that morally unacceptable, then walk away from it.

Or at least wait until there is something to be vocal about. There really isn't yet, is there? 

You may all be proved right in the long or even the short term, but at least give the guy a chance.

I am not sure the football club owner exists that would meet the exacting standards of some of our fans.

 

[Day]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

I am not sure the football club owner exists that would meet the exacting standards of some of our fans.

Which is why I created the describe the perfect Derby owner thread, so far it’s been a limited response with basically everything Mel wasn’t and a few one liners. 

My friend @DarkFruitsRam7 wrote quite a description though, credit to him.

Dare I say I’m not sure some know what they want until what they have they no longer want and at times their initial demands are contradicted.

I’m not sure there are that many people out there willing to take a football club on during a pandemic, this has been awful timing for Mel trying to sell with his own health issues. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

16 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Duration promoted clubs spent in PL based on year they were promoted:

00/01 - 13, 11, 11
01/02 - 18*, 4, 1 
02/03 - 7, 1, 1
03/04 - 2, 1, 1
04/05 - 8, 6, 1
05/06 - 2, 1, 1
06/07 - 10, 1, 1
07/08 -10, 2, 1
08/09 - 3, 2, 1
09/10 - 8, 6, 1
10/11 - 7, 3, 2
11/12 - 9*, 9*, 1
12/13 - 8*, 2, 1
13/14 - 7*, 1, 1
14/15 - 5, 5, 1
15/16 - 4, 1, 1
16/17 - 4*, 4*, 2
17/18 - 3*, 1, 1
18/19 - 2*, 2*, 1
19/20 - 1*, 1*, 1*

* = Still in PL

They either stay up for a good 10 years, or go straight back down (1 or 2 years). Same pattern over the past 10 years. Typically, it's the bigger clubs (those with more income) who survive the longest - Newcastle, West Ham, Villa. Whereas it's the smaller clubs who go straight back down - Sheff United, Blackpool, Hull, Cardiff, etc... Hardly surprising news that a club with more money has a better chance of survival.

As I've mentioned in other threads in the past, in season 1, our budget would be on par with Palace, Norwich, Watford. Our revenue would exceed that of West Brom, Burnley, Sheff United, and Fulham. 
In year 2 or 3, once we start earning more through sponsors, we would make the small jump up to being on par with the likes of Southampton. 
Financially, breaking into the top 6 is an almost impossible task at this point. Leicester (soon to be 3 top 6 finishes in the last 6 years) aren't even half way to reaching that point. It would take a couple of years in Europe for us to join the 'next 6' of Leeds, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, Everton and West Ham.

Thanks for doing the research that I was too lazy to do, and proving that it's a myth in the process.

And thanks for the info re the Big Six. Regardless of financials though, I still think there's a huge opportunity for clubs like Leicester to take advantage of the big clubs being thick in their approach.

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I find this argument that people are just being negative a bit crazy.

Everyone knows multiple examples of dodgy owners coming in and ruining clubs. Everyone laughs at the pathetic fit and proper person test by the League and knows it is pointless. 

With this new prospective owner, there are a few red/amber flags already. Struggling to see any clear positives yet. We all hope it turns out to be great, but nothing much suggests this yet.

When it was clear the Amigos were crooks, it was easy to ignore because Burley has us playing well. All we've got now is the buying players for 20 million quote. Surely no one is excited by that.

I’d mostly agree. I’ll offer one positive though, he had a busy up with Chansiri over who they should hire. Chansiri wanted Pulis who he sacked a few weeks later.......Alonso wanted Paul Cook. 

At least this gives me some hope that he may be a bit more clued up on championship football than the average newcomer (so to speak).

That said the links to Southall are deeply concerning!

[Leeds Ram]

44 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think there is a big difference between being concerned and some of the vitriolic rubbish I have read on this thread, yes.

I think the very phrase "holding to account" smacks of an entitlement that I just don't think we as fans have, but if you feel we must  hold him to account, shouldn't we at least wait until he's done something? 

What is the "standard befitting of football club owners" and how many would actually pass such a test? Would Chelsea's owner?

I just feel that fans these days get hung up on far too much. Really, if you only want ethical ownership,  maybe professional football is not the sport for you.

This just strikes me as ridiculous (as do your previous posts on this topic), of course as fans of the club and putting our hard earned cash into the club we have the right and obligation to hold the ownership to account if they are failing in their jobs. Football club owners in reality are pretty close to being custodians, they are owners of long standing institutions with an enormous role in local communities. This kind of attitude would have seen the 3 amigos hammer the nails in Derby's coffin over a decade ago when it took a combination of local reporters, the rams trust, and significant fan pressure to try and force those crooks out the club. 

No-one likes to wallow in misery- I hope Alonso comes in, does a fantastic job gets us to the promised land and makes us a force again. As a Derby county fan who wouldn't want that? Honestly, one of the best days I've had since my dad passing away a few years ago was going with my mum down to Wembley to cheer us on- why wouldn't I or any other Derby fan want to have those memories again?

The thing that worries me (and others) is that he's got 0 evidence to back any of this up, he doesn't have the money to run the club himself, his companies are basically shells and he's already had a run in with a club in this division the fans of which are largely thankful he's left them alone. I hope i am proven wrong, just like I hope I am proven wrong about Wayne's management but atm there is nothing to show beyond a press release and interviews that anyone with half a brain could do that to show he's not going to be a nightmare for us. 

[Jimbo Ram]

29 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Duration promoted clubs spent in PL based on year they were promoted:

00/01 - 13, 11, 11
01/02 - 18*, 4, 1 
02/03 - 7, 1, 1
03/04 - 2, 1, 1
04/05 - 8, 6, 1
05/06 - 2, 1, 1
06/07 - 10, 1, 1
07/08 -10, 2, 1
08/09 - 3, 2, 1
09/10 - 8, 6, 1
10/11 - 7, 3, 2
11/12 - 9*, 9*, 1
12/13 - 8*, 2, 1
13/14 - 7*, 1, 1
14/15 - 5, 5, 1
15/16 - 4, 1, 1
16/17 - 4*, 4*, 2
17/18 - 3*, 1, 1
18/19 - 2*, 2*, 1
19/20 - 1*, 1*, 1*

* = Still in PL

They either stay up for a good 10 years, or go straight back down (1 or 2 years). Same pattern over the past 10 years. Typically, it's the bigger clubs (those with more income) who survive the longest - Newcastle, West Ham, Villa. Whereas it's the smaller clubs who go straight back down - Sheff United, Blackpool, Hull, Cardiff, etc... Hardly surprising news that a club with more money has a better chance of survival.

As I've mentioned in other threads in the past, in season 1, our budget would be on par with Palace, Norwich, Watford. Our revenue would exceed that of West Brom, Burnley, Sheff United, and Fulham. 
In year 2 or 3, once we start earning more through sponsors, we would make the small jump up to being on par with the likes of Southampton. 
Financially, breaking into the top 6 is an almost impossible task at this point. Leicester (soon to be 3 top 6 finishes in the last 6 years) aren't even half way to reaching that point. It would take a couple of years in Europe for us to join the 'next 6' of Leeds, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, Everton and West Ham.

I think it is always the case of staying up in that first season, generally, Villa are a good example (I know Sheff Utd are not) and then building from there...

[Ramarena]

22 minutes ago, Carnero said:

"Close friend"

Do we actually know that? Are all friends/associates to be classed as "close friends" for the purposes of highlighting a point?

He didn't say that on the interview I saw on sky, he merely said that they have money and will spend on the club what is required to be successful without being reckless. "If it takes £20m or if it takes £150m then ok"

It's always better to listen to an actual interview than go on a headline tweet.

In the SSN interview he refers to Southall as a “friend”

 

[Rab a dab doo]

As they say 'talk is cheap' and 'actions speak far louder than words' .

We have been here before.

Only time will tell if is this a 'new' dawn or another 'false' dawn. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

On the Southall thing, I don't profess to know much about him, but I believe he posted an Instagram story a few months back, tagging Alonso, saying something like "Let's get it", with a Ram emoji. God I feel sick just typing that cringefest out.

It would suggest he's been involved at some point.

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

This just strikes me as ridiculous (as do your previous posts on this topic), of course as fans of the club and putting our hard earned cash into the club we have the right and obligation to hold the ownership to account if they are failing in their jobs. Football club owners in reality are pretty close to being custodians, they are owners of long standing institutions with an enormous role in local communities. This kind of attitude would have seen the 3 amigos hammer the nails in Derby's coffin over a decade ago when it took a combination of local reporters, the rams trust, and significant fan pressure to try and force those crooks out the club. 

No-one likes to wallow in misery- I hope Alonso comes in, does a fantastic job gets us to the promised land and makes us a force again. As a Derby county fan who wouldn't want that? Honestly, one of the best days I've had since my dad passing away a few years ago was going with my mum down to Wembley to cheer us on- why wouldn't I or any other Derby fan want to have those memories again?

The thing that worries me (and others) is that he's got 0 evidence to back any of this up, he doesn't have the money to run the club himself, his companies are basically shells and he's already had a run in with a club in this division the fans of which are largely thankful he's left them alone. I hope i am proven wrong, just like I hope I am proven wrong about Wayne's management but atm there is nothing to show beyond a press release and interviews that anyone with half a brain could do that to show he's not going to be a nightmare for us. 

I am very pleased you think my posts are ridiculous. My work here is done.

You carry on with your rights and obligations, you're doing a grand job.

[IslandExile]

55 minutes ago, Topram said:

He’s at the game today 

Let's hope he signs all the paperwork before kick off.

[Donnyram]

1 hour ago, Oldben said:

How much would it cost to do a complete rebuild of the team, to something able to complete for a top 2.

I can't think of any area of the team that wouldn't require improvement, given this season. 

Is it a good idea to tell the world you have a lot of money to spend.

 

On the positive side we have young players who will improve.  On the optimistic side we have Krystian Bielik to come back and when he was around we looked a different team and talk from some was about launching a play off push this season.  Given some investment and clever recruitment the re-build may not be quite as drastic.  Maybe I’m glass half full but I won’t gain anything by being the opposite.

On your point about declaring that we have money to spend I tend to agree although the positive view maybe that it shows ambitious intent that may help to attract the right sort of player who want to join the project.

[IslandExile]

12 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

I think people who just see Rob Dorsetts tweets will think this a young rich lad boasting but actually listening/reading to the interview he comes across quite level headed and ambitious, not boastful.

He hasnt spoken out about the deal itself which is what the statement was about, all he has done is 2 interviews over here where he has outlined his plans which im sure most fans wanted to hear/know. Sounds like the deal is pretty much done anyway.

I am really glad to hear that.

I was starting to fear we were heading towards another Bob Maxwell. Mind, even that was fun in the beginning.

https://bygonesderby.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/turbulent-days-when-cap’n-bob-was-at-baseball-ground’s-helm/

[ariotofmyown]

36 minutes ago, Carnero said:

"Close friend"

Do we actually know that? Are all friends/associates to be classed as "close friends" for the purposes of highlighting a point?

He didn't say that on the interview I saw on sky, he merely said that they have money and will spend on the club what is required to be successful without being reckless. "If it takes £20m or if it takes £150m then ok"

It's always better to listen to an actual interview than go on a headline tweet.

Sorry, he didn't say close friend, it was just friend. A bit worrying though.

Fair enough on the money, but it still sounds rather amateur, throwing numbers around to make sure other clubs know we'll spend whatever it takes. 

[Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think it is always the case of staying up in that first season, generally, Villa are a good example (I know Sheff Utd are not) and then building from there...

I heard  a brief but interesting conversation on some footy program where they were talking about Shef United's plight. One guy said he'd spoken to Paul Jewell a lot about our dreadful season. Paul had said his big regret was not accepting the inevitable earlier and should have set his stall out to try and build a team for the following season, hopefully capable of challenging for re-promotion. Instead he was trying to bale out the Titanic to the bitter end, or words to that effect. Let's face it, the players had given up long since.

They then went on to say that S.U. were probably in good shape, and were playing reasonably well and should do well next season.

They're certainly not getting hammered by cricket scores every week.